OT: 2017 Football Thread I: Jets trade Richardson to Seattle

[Mac n Gs]

Jets just picked up Will Tye from the Giants on the waiver wire.

I always liked Tye, but I guess drafting Engram made him more expendable? Does LaCosse look like he'll be a good 2nd string TE?

 

[Bob Richards]

I always liked Tye, but I guess drafting Engram made him more expendable? Does LaCosse look like he'll be a good 2nd string TE?

I also liked Will Tye but I think a little bit of my affinity was also based in the fact that he wasn't Larry Donnell.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I always liked Tye, but I guess drafting Engram made him more expendable? Does LaCosse look like he'll be a good 2nd string TE?

LaCosse will be 3rd or 4th string, frankly. And yeah, I think he'll be very good in that role.

 

[sbjnyc]

I think the Jets got good value even without Kearse. I just hope they can do something smart with the pick.

The jets have generally drafted poorly in the 2nd round. If possible, the front office seems to be worse at drafting than the prior regime.

2017 Mave (we'll see)
2016 Hackenberg (seen enough)
2015 Devin Smith (released)
2014 Jace Amaro (released)
2013 Geno Smith (released)
2012 Stephen Hill (released)
2011 None (improvement)
2010 Vlad Ducasse (released)
2009 None
2008 None
2007 David Harris (last good 2nd rounder)

 

[nyr2k2]

Devin Smith is a tough one. He was a WR/KR whose entire game was built on speed, and he tears his knee up in consecutive years.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Reese has taken a giant dump on the OL. I won't argue that any of them are above being called out. Idk what they see in Jerry. Richburg has had 2 pretty bad seasons in his career and one very good one. Both tackles are turnstiles. Pugh is pretty consistent at G but I don't know if he's worth top money.

The entire OL can't seem to run block. The backup OL couldn't run block the other teams backups. I'm starting to wonder if this is a systemic &/or coaching problem. OL play is at low point league wide and we are at the bottom of league.

I could stomach the missed assignments, complete whiffs, headlocks & chokeholds if they could at least over power in the run game. It's like we have the worst of both worlds. We have a finesse OL that can't push the LOS or use technique and speed to pass block.

A giant dump? By spending first and second round picks on it? We have two first round picks, a second round pick, another draft pick, and a guy who was (before this preseason) one of the best passblocking guards in the league in Jerry. Hart was excellent runblocking in the preseason and has clearly made improvements, there.

Instead of killing 23 year olds who are learning, how about we enjoy their improvements and understand that they are, again, 23 years old?

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Also, Richburg was only "bad" during his rookie year. His second year was borderline elite and his third year was league average overall (poor in run blocking, though).

 

[NYGBleedBlueNYR]

A giant dump? By spending first and second round picks on it? We have two first round picks, a second round pick, another draft pick, and a guy who was (before this preseason) one of the best passblocking guards in the league in Jerry. Hart was excellent runblocking in the preseason and has clearly made improvements, there.

Instead of killing 23 year olds who are learning, how about we enjoy their improvements and understand that they are, again, 23 years old?

yeah a giant dump

the OL is bad and has been bad. He refuses to even make Flowers compete. They just hand him the LT job for 2 years even though hes been a bottom of the league OT

Richburg wasn't good last year. And until this team can actually run the ball inside I'm not giving him Pugh or Jerry any praise.

The OL is an abomination. I'm not buying the offseason work making much of a difference. Proof is in the pudding against real players and schemes.

How many years are we gonna wait for Flowers to stop headlocking and chokeholding people? How many years will he play with poor technique and his head down? He did it in college and he's done it as a Giant. I know he's a tough guy and a hard worker in the gym. I don't know if he doesn't put the time in working on technique or if he just has a mental block when competition is live.

lastly, I don't WANT these guys to suck. I'm not rooting against them. If either of them can be league average I'll be ecstatic. I would love to eat a giant bowl of crow because if the OL can be mediocre as a whole I think we are REAL contenders.

I'm done arguing with you about this. We clearly have different views. Lets just root for some W's

 

[Hunter Gathers]

yeah a giant dump

the OL is bad and has been bad. He refuses to even make Flowers compete. They just hand him the LT job for 2 years even though hes been a bottom of the league OT

Richburg wasn't good last year. And until this team can actually run the ball inside I'm not giving him Pugh or Jerry any praise.

The OL is an abomination. I'm not buying the offseason work making much of a difference. Proof is in the pudding against real players and schemes.

How many years are we gonna wait for Flowers to stop headlocking and chokeholding people? How many years will he play with poor technique and his head down? He did it in college and he's done it as a Giant. I know he's a tough guy and a hard worker in the gym. I don't know if he doesn't put the time in working on technique or if he just has a mental block when competition is live.

lastly, I don't WANT these guys to suck. I'm not rooting against them. If either of them can be league average I'll be ecstatic. I would love to eat a giant bowl of crow because if the OL can be mediocre as a whole I think we are REAL contenders.

I'm done arguing with you about this. We clearly have different views. Lets just root for some W's

Richburg was league average last year (this is not just my view, but PFF had him 16th overall in combined blocking). Flowers improved quite a bit last year.

Reese made a big move in getting Ellison to help out on the left side. Who was helping Flowers last year? Pugh was gone much of the year and we had zero blocking from the TE spot. If you want to make a complaint about this, cite the actual problem. The lack of any help for a 22 (at the time) year old kid. I'd actually agree with you, there, as I think that Reese seriously misjudged how much of an impact the lack of a blocking TE was causing.

With Ellison being a pretty damn elite blocker and Engram showing a whole lot of willingness to throw his body around, I think the problem should be addressed. Sort of the reason that the LT and RT spots were the best positions on the line in preseason.

 

[nyr2k2]

I like a couple of the moves the Jets made. Tye, Ealy and Kearse. None of them are good enough on their own to make a big impact and push the needle this year, but they'll all be useful pieces for next year. It's good because it shows while the team is obviously not looking to win this year, they're still operating with a year towards the next couple seasons.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

I like a couple of the moves the Jets made. Tye, Ealy and Kearse. None of them are good enough on their own to make a big impact and push the needle this year, but they'll all be useful pieces for next year. It's good because it shows while the team is obviously not looking to win this year, they're still operating with a year towards the next couple seasons.

As a Giants fan, I liked Tye. Good hands, but needs to be hit in stride, because he isn't the quickest at turning his body up field. Just got caught in a numbers game with the Giants.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I like a couple of the moves the Jets made. Tye, Ealy and Kearse. None of them are good enough on their own to make a big impact and push the needle this year, but they'll all be useful pieces for next year. It's good because it shows while the team is obviously not looking to win this year, they're still operating with a year towards the next couple seasons.

Tye is a solid second or third stringer. I don't think the Jets should rely on him for much, though.

 

[nyr2k2]

Tye is a solid second or third stringer. I don't think the Jets should rely on him for much, though.

They're fully committed to Austin Sefarian-Jenkins who seems to have undergone an attitude adjustment. He also dropped a lot of weight and looked good in both camp and limited preseason action. I think they're hoping he develops into the number one option he was supposed to be. This season, even with ****** QBs, will go a long way towards determining that. Even if he just looks like a number two, then the Jets have solid second and third options while they look for a starter. The point is a guy like Tye belongs on an NFL roster and even if it's just as a depth guy the Jets are doing well to find those guys. They'll have a ton on positions to address but it helps if you've started to fill things out with young, legitimate depth.

Same can be said for Ealy. Lots of talent there. Is he a starter? Maybe not. He looks like a good rotational guy which is why seven teams, including the Giants, put in a claim on him. He's an NFL player.

Jets should continue to trawl for young talent that didn't make it elsewhere. There are lots of reps to go around.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

As a Giants fan, I liked Tye. Good hands, but needs to be hit in stride, because he isn't the quickest at turning his body up field. Just got caught in a numbers game with the Giants.

Hah, that's putting it nicely. He's as agile as a tree. He works hard, is a good teammate, and he has decent hands. But don't expect any blocking or much RAC.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

They're fully committed to Austin Sefarian-Jenkins who seems to have undergone an attitude adjustment. He also dropped a lot of weight and looked good in both camp and limited preseason action. I think they're hoping he develops into the number one option he was supposed to be. This season, even with ****** QBs, will go a long way towards determining that. Even if he just looks like a number two, then the Jets have solid second and third options while they look for a starter. The point is a guy like Tye belongs on an NFL roster and even if it's just as a depth guy the Jets are doing well to find those guys. They'll have a ton on positions to address but it helps if you've started to fill things out with young, legitimate depth.

Same can be said for Ealy. Lots of talent there. Is he a starter? Maybe not. He looks like a good rotational guy which is why seven teams, including the Giants, put in a claim on him. He's an NFL player.

Jets should continue to trawl for young talent that didn't make it elsewhere. There are lots of reps to go around.

I think the Ealy pick-up was phenomenal.

 

[nyr2k2]

Hah, that's putting it nicely. He's as agile as a tree. He works hard, is a good teammate, and he has decent hands. But don't expect any blocking or much RAC.

Yeah the Jets really just need a guy that can catch simple, short passes. A safety valve since outside of Kearse and Anderson the receivers are basically completely raw.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Yeah the Jets really just need a guy that can catch simple, short passes. A safety valve since outside of Kearse and Anderson the receivers are basically completely raw.

Surprised the Jets didn't take a flyer on Victor Cruz.

 

[silverfish]

Where are my week 1 projections

 

[nyr2k2]

Surprised the Jets didn't take a flyer on Victor Cruz.

I think when they had Enunwa, they were fine going into the year with him and Anderson as the 1-2. When they lost Enunwa I think they started looking for a safe, leader-type to mentor the younger guys. Cruz may have more upside but is older and probably riskier. I think they probably just felt Kearse was more safe. That, or they were looking for other guys like Cruz and Kearse fell into their laps when they were working on the Richardson deal.

The Jets are in a weird position where they want to find young talent for the future but not so much that it makes them more competitive this year. Find young developmental guys, castoffs, and mentors. Then they'll hopefully get a top QB and have a billion dollars to spend on free agents.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I think when they had Enunwa, they were fine going into the year with him and Anderson as the 1-2. When they lost Enunwa I think they started looking for a safe, leader-type to mentor the younger guys. Cruz may have more upside but is older and probably riskier. I think they probably just felt Kearse was more safe. That, or they were looking for other guys like Cruz and Kearse fell into their laps when they were working on the Richardson deal.

The Jets are in a weird position where they want to find young talent for the future but not so much that it makes them more competitive this year. Find young developmental guys, castoffs, and mentors. Then they'll hopefully get a top QB and have a billion dollars to spend on free agents.

I mean now that Chicago cut him.

 

[nyr2k2]

I mean now that Chicago cut him.

Yeah I get what you mean. It's kinda what I was getting at with the last part of my post. I think they want the young guys to get as much of a shot as possible and not be blocked by a vet--particularly a vet that if he somehow found his past form could be the difference between winning two games and five games or something. Kearse is the exception as they need *someone* who is a veteran receiver to help move the sticks or else the offense is completely nonexistent and none of the kids even get a chance. Cruz would be a good fit if they were looking to add guys to help make them more competitive this year, but I don't think they really want to do that.

 

[sbjnyc]

Devin Smith is a tough one. He was a WR/KR whose entire game was built on speed, and he tears his knee up in consecutive years.

I was hopeful for him but he wasn't that good even when healthy.

Richburg was league average last year (this is not just my view, but PFF had him 16th overall in combined blocking). Flowers improved quite a bit last year.

PFF graded Flowers as poor last year. It's an improvement over 2015 but still not good.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

PFF graded Flowers as poor last year. It's an improvement over 2015 but still not good.

I didn't dispute that. My point was about Richburg. PFF graded both Hart and Flowers quite well this preseason, however.

 

[NYGBleedBlueNYR]

I like PFF but let's not act like they're a definitive stamp on what a player is. Just another tool in the tool box.

 

[TootooTrain]

Heyo, didn't know where to put this.

I'll be fairly busy throughout the next couple of weeks. I'll have very little time when I'm not on the go. I'll still be able to watch football, but that time inbetween of catching up on general team news/discussion will be faded. Just wondering if there are any good podcasts surrounding the Giants. I'm sure there's a fair number, but just looking for another fans opinion on a 'good' one. I've been listening to the CBS fantasy ones for a fair bit

Cheers fellas.