NHL Entry Draft 2017 Draft Talk

[Caeldan]

How do we know who'll be available. Especially in this draft.

That's why I'm saying pick a top 3, who are reasonable choices (ie not Hischier or Patrick)

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I would love to see Yamamoto fall to us.

I don't know enough about the kids outside the top 10 to really pick 3. I get the feeling, with Button rating Yamamoto so high, that he may know something that we don't....like maybe the NHL being more worried about the concussion lawsuit than we think, and possibly more tweaking of the rules to open up the league for smaller guys? Just a hunch.

I doubt he falls to us, but like a few others have said....little guys definitely slide on draft day. Maybe we get incredibly lucky here?

To get a kid with incredibly high skill level at 28....that's the goal.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Button ranks hockey sense above all else.

That's why he has Joseph and Yamamoto in the mid-10s, and Tippett and Vesalainen in the mid-20s.

Yamamoto is 5'7.5, 146lbs. He'll fall way past our 1st, maybe as far as our 2nd.

 

[Caeldan]

Button ranks hockey sense above all else.

That's why he has Joseph and Yamamoto in the mid-10s, and Tippett and Vesalainen in the mid-20s.

Yamamoto is 5'7.5, 146lbs. He'll fall way past our 1st, maybe as far as our 2nd.

Yamamoto would seem to be one of those boom/bust 2nd round attempts in that case.

 

[edguy]

Button ranks hockey sense above all else.

That's why he has Joseph and Yamamoto in the mid-10s, and Tippett and Vesalainen in the mid-20s.

Yamamoto is 5'7.5, 146lbs. He'll fall way past our 1st, maybe as far as our 2nd.

100% agree. No way Yamamoto goes in the 1st.

 

[Micklebot]

100% agree. No way Yamamoto goes in the 1st.

Idk, I'd be thrilled if we got a raw talent prospect like him with our first. Players like Gaudreau prove that you can still be elite NHL players at that size and you won't find guys that late in the draft with his skillset without taking some risk because of size.

 

[edguy]

Idk, I'd be thrilled if we got a raw talent prospect like him with our first. Players like Gaudreau prove that you can still be elite NHL players at that size and you won't find guys that late in the draft with his skillset without taking some risk because of size.

So you cant find guys with skillsets like Gaudreau's late in the first round or later? Remind me when Gaudreau was drafted again?

And lets not forget Yamamoto is not Gaudreau. If he was he'd be the consensus #1 for this draft. For every Gaudreau there is a hundred busts who just cant pull it together due to size (Conacher for example).

It'll be a nice story if he does become a superstar NHLer but there is so many obsticles in his way, including size, it's just not worth a first round pick.

 

[Micklebot]

So you cant find guys with skillsets like Gaudreau's late in the first round or later? Remind me when Gaudreau was drafted again?

And lets not forget Yamamoto is not Gaudreau. If he was he'd be the consensus #1 for this draft. For every Gaudreau there is a hundred busts who just cant pull it together due to size (Conacher for example).

It'll be a nice story if he does become a superstar NHLer but there is so many obsticles in his way, including size, it's just not worth a first round pick.

did you read my entire post? Won't find guys with that skill set that late without taking some risk because of size


I'm not sure what you mean by he's not Gaudreau, of course he isn't, neither was Gaudreau when he was drafted.

Conacher btw is a terrible example, he was undrafted, and didn't have near the same skillset. He was far more of a grinding player than a high hockey IQ guy.

Yamamoto is this year's Debrincat, only in a draft without the same high end depth as 2016. Both guys had similar rankings in the scouting services too if memory serves. I can see him getting taken anywhere in the late 1st to mid second.

 

[PatrickEaves]

did you read my entire post? Won't find guys with that skill set that late without taking some risk because of size


I'm not sure what you mean by he's not Gaudreau, of course he isn't, neither was Gaudreau when he was drafted.

Conacher btw is a terrible example, he was undrafted, and didn't have near the same skillset. He was far more of a grinding player than a high hockey IQ guy.

Yamamoto is this year's Debrincat, only in a draft without the same high end depth as 2016. Both guys had similar rankings in the scouting services too if memory serves. I can see him getting taken anywhere in the late 1st to mid second.

Gaudreau was also 11 months younger than Yamamoto when he was drafted.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I have a hard time choosing 3 players because no one really says I'm the one.
BPA is the way to go but , who is the BPA there ... maybe Oettinger if he is there.
I opted to go with 99 birthdates over some later 98 birthdates that have had more productive years ( Conor Timmins, Kole Lind)
Also these 3 have a chance of being there when we pick.

1. Maxime Comtois (LW/RW/C) 6'2" 207 (Jan -99) ; falls to us because his numbers dropped this year. Good Speed, Good Size, Good Skill. Likes to play in the tough areas. Game is suited for the pros. He is a power forward that plays an all around game. Hard working 2 way player that competes. I really think the Sens can use some big winger with speed, skill , plays with an edge and likes the physical game.I think he is worth a bit of risk and he will have a bounce back. L shot that plays either wing and center.

2. Henri Jokiharju (RHD) 6'0" 188 (June -99); 2-way RHD , Portland Winterhawks
Just finished his 1st season in N/A. Smart and Shifty. Fantastic Edge work. Intelligent puck mover that is an excellent skater. Uses smart positioning to defend. Played on the 2016 Finish U-18 championship team. 3 assists in the CHL prospects game -named top player for team Cherry.

3. Josh Norris 6'1" 189 C Shoots L (May-99) USNTDP Strong , fast, shifty skater. Outstanding acceleration and balance. Safe pick like Colin White. Dominated the combine. Hard working, high energy player at both ends of the rink. Really good shot. Good with the puck. Good on the forecheck. Not a perimeter player. Scores from in tight and from the outside. Top 6 upside.

 

[Micklebot]

Gaudreau was also 11 months younger than Yamamoto when he was drafted.

And significantly smaller at the time, at 5'6 137.

In the end though, my point in bringing up Gaudreau was more that he, and others like him, are changing the way GMs think about size and are becoming more willing to take a risk on high skill guys like Debrincat, or Yamamoto with late first round picks.

The big thing too is that a late 1st tends to be drastically overvalued around here imo, so that might be part of the divide on the subject. I don't value our 1st round pick much different than our 2nd (Calgary's) so to me it's not a big deal using one or the other.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

HockeyProspect.com final rankings
https://www.hockeyprospect.com/2017-nhl-draft-rankings/

23 THOMAS, ROBERT LONDON OHL 5' 11.5" 188 lbs *
24 TOLVANEN, EELI SIOUX CITY USHL 5' 10.5" 170 lbs *
25 LIND, KOLE KELOWNA WHL 6' 1.25" 178 lbs *
26 BOWERS, SHANE WATERLOO USHL 6' 1.25" 183 lbs *
27 DAVIDSSON, MARCUS DJURGARDEN SWEDEN 6' 0.0" 191 lbs
28 CHYTIL, FILIP ZLIN CZREP 6' 2.25" 178 lbs *
29 JOKIHARJU, HENRI PORTLAND WHL 5' 11.75" 180 lbs *
30 BOQVIST, JESPER BRYNAS SWEDEN 6' 0.0" 179 lbs

Oettinger ranked 20th

see also combined rankings spreadsheet .. this is being kept up to date link

 

[edguy]

The Sens posted a 60 second behind the scenes combine video on Facebook. There was a glimpse of the Sens ranking page. Might of been for workout order? Or our list? I have no idea. Here are all the players I could interpret:

Jaret Anderson-Dolan, C - Spokane (WHL), rank #71
Michael Anderson, D - Waterloo (USHL), rank #27
Lias Andersson, C - HV71 (SHL), rank #121
Josh Brook, D - Moose Jaw (WHL), rank #28
Alexander Chmelevski, C - Ottawa (OHL), rank #97
Filip Chytil, LW - Zlin (CZE.jr), rank #114
Maxime Comtois, Victoriaville (QMJHL), rank #116
Evan Barratt, USA NTDP (USHL), rank #96

I'm pretty sure that wasn't our list. I think those were the numbers assigned to them for the workout

Confirmation of my thoughts

 

[BUCKLE UP]

I'm pretty sure that wasn't our list. I think those were the numbers assigned to them for the workout

I was going to say... Lias is extremely low.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I was going to say... Lias is extremely low.

there's a few that are pretty low... Josh Brook at 28 is that an omen

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Just added three more:

Kole Lind

Robert Thomas

Jaret Anderson-Dolan

Three more profiles from the Draft Analyst

 

[Six Assets]

haven't really followed this draft but draft day is easily one of my favourite days of the year hockey related.

Would like to see an annual HFSens Mock. I've done it last couple of years and its a nice tool to learn about players. Hopefully there is some interest in that.

 

[Caeldan]

haven't really followed this draft but draft day is easily one of my favourite days of the year hockey related.

Would like to see an annual HFSens Mock. I've done it last couple of years and its a nice tool to learn about players. Hopefully there is some interest in that.

Feel free to start a thread

 

[Tuna99]

I like the idea of getting Oettinger. If we only have 4 picks, getting a starting goalie out of any draft is a huge win, let alone a goalie who seems to have a huge upside and could be a top 10 NHL goalie.

The draft philosophy as well of getting the best from that position I think is smart. And our goalie coach Groulx did and excellent job in his first year. Giving him a goalie to groom for the next 2-3 years I think is a super smart management move. We have decent F and D prospect and some blue chippers, can't neglect the goaltending. Look at what Toronto had to give up to get their starter, and then sign him to big money. Ottawa just will never be able to do that. We need to draft a high end Goalie and develop him.In a weak draft where we pick late, smart management if we get him.

 

[Micklebot]

I like the idea of getting Oettinger. If we only have 4 picks, getting a starting goalie out of any draft is a huge win, let alone a goalie who seems to have a huge upside and could be a top 10 NHL goalie.

The draft philosophy as well of getting the best from that position I think is smart. And our goalie coach Groulx did and excellent job in his first year. Giving him a goalie to groom for the next 2-3 years I think is a super smart management move. We have decent F and D prospect and some blue chippers, can't neglect the goaltending. Look at what Toronto had to give up to get their starter, and then sign him to big money. Ottawa just will never be able to do that. We need to draft a high end Goalie and develop him.In a weak draft where we pick late, smart management if we get him.

Goalies are voodoo. Can't use high picks on them unless they are absolute sure things imo, though at 28th, it's might be worth the risk as I wouldn't be too torn up if we drafted a bust at 28th. That's a spot you go bust or boom imo, high skill skaters with top 6/top 4 upside are what I'd want personally, but a potential star starting goalie is certainly attractive too.

Wrt what the leafs gave up for Andersen; you're suggesting we can afford to use our 28th OA, but could never afford to trade a 30th AO and 2nd rd pick(50th OA in 2017)??? Andersen's contract isn't all that different from what we gave our own Anderson when you adjust for when their contract's were signed, so historically, we have been able to do exactly that.

 

[BondraTime]

Heard yesterday David Noel and Antoine Morand are two names to keep an eye on during day 2.

 

[Tuna99]

Goalies are voodoo. Can't use high picks on them unless they are absolute sure things imo, though at 28th, it's might be worth the risk as I wouldn't be too torn up if we drafted a bust at 28th. That's a spot you go bust or boom imo, high skill skaters with top 6/top 4 upside are what I'd want personally, but a potential star starting goalie is certainly attractive too.

Wrt what the leafs gave up for Andersen; you're suggesting we can afford to use our 28th OA, but could never afford to trade a 30th AO and 2nd rd pick(50th OA in 2017)??? Andersen's contract isn't all that different from what we gave our own Anderson when you adjust for when their contract's were signed, so historically, we have been able to do exactly that.

Noessen, Puempel, Cowan, Lazar are Voodoo too. We haven't developed a goalie EVER. Lalime, Andy, Hasek, Rhodes - the only guys we've groomed into starters are Lehner - and look how that asset turned out. Incredible return.

Goalies have value of developed well, Freddy Anderson being case #1. Talbot, Bernier, Bishop. And a lot of these goalies aren't even good. Goalies are great assets, and what's the plan after Andy retires? I don't eveliev in not drafting goalies high - and 28th overall in a weak draft isn't high. It's like a 2nd or 3rd round pick in a solid draft. Take your long shots Alfie style with the other 3 picks and get a sirebthing between the pipes.

Goaltending saved our season. Can't ever have enough NHL goalies these days

 

[BondraTime]

Noessen, Puempel, Cowan, Lazar are Voodoo too. We haven't developed a goalie EVER. Lalime, Andy, Hasek, Rhodes - the only guys we've groomed into starters are Lehner - and look how that asset turned out. Incredible return.

Goalies have value of developed well, Freddy Anderson being case #1. Talbot, Bernier, Bishop. And a lot of these goalies aren't even good. Goalies are great assets, and what's the plan after Andy retires? I don't eveliev in not drafting goalies high - and 28th overall in a weak draft isn't high. It's like a 2nd or 3rd round pick in a solid draft. Take your long shots Alfie style with the other 3 picks and get a sirebthing between the pipes.

Goaltending saved our season. Can't ever have enough NHL goalies these days

They are examples of why you don't spend a 1st + 6 years of development on a goalie, just trade a 1st for an established guy who has pushed his way into the NHL on a team with a starter. Goalies have the lowest value in trades among all positions, by far.

 

[Micklebot]

Noessen, Puempel, Cowan, Lazar are Voodoo too. We haven't developed a goalie EVER. Lalime, Andy, Hasek, Rhodes - the only guys we've groomed into starters are Lehner - and look how that asset turned out. Incredible return.

Goalies have value of developed well, Freddy Anderson being case #1. Talbot, Bernier, Bishop. And a lot of these goalies aren't even good. Goalies are great assets, and what's the plan after Andy retires? I don't eveliev in not drafting goalies high - and 28th overall in a weak draft isn't high. It's like a 2nd or 3rd round pick in a solid draft. Take your long shots Alfie style with the other 3 picks and get a sirebthing between the pipes.

Goaltending saved our season. Can't ever have enough NHL goalies these days

Skaters becoming Busts in the first round happens. Goalies not amounting to much being picked in the first 2 rounds is the norm. As Bondra points out, why was 4+ years developing a goailie who might become a starter when you can use the same draft pick to trade for an established one? The only drawback is you don't get to take advantage of the entry level contract, but typically goalies aren't starters while on their ELC.

 

[edguy]

The easy answer is you believe the goalie you draft will become better then any goalie you can trade for.

On a side note as personal opinion; its never smart to bank on making a trade.. they are so hard to make and there are so many variables, its good to have a goalie in the pipelines with that big potential.