2017-2018 Blues Discussion Thread Part Three

[Brian39]

Talking about this summer, the J-Bo and Gunnar injuries are absolutely brutal for us. I've never been part of the crowd that wanted them gone and I think they both take too much criticism. But all of that was couched in the assumption that one of them would be getting moved this summer as Ed and one of Dunn/Walman surpassed them. We can afford to keep one next year, but we can't keep both. And now they are both hurt long term, won't be returning until camp (best case scenario), can't be bought out and no team is going to trade for them until after they recover from injury. Which means they will be taking valuable cap space and drastically limiting our ability to spend money over the summer (I know we can exceed the cap over the summer and then use LTIR, but unless they are gone for an entire season we will need to leave space to bring them off LTIR and be showcased for a trade).

Having both suffer long term injuries is a complete disaster for our ability to shed cap space.

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

Talking about this summer, the J-Bo and Gunnar injuries are absolutely brutal for us. I've never been part of the crowd that wanted them gone and I think they both take too much criticism. But all of that was couched in the assumption that one of them would be getting moved this summer as Ed and one of Dunn/Walman surpassed them. We can afford to keep one next year, but we can't keep both. And now they are both hurt long term, won't be returning until camp (best case scenario), can't be bought out and no team is going to trade for them until after they recover from injury. Which means they will be taking valuable cap space and drastically limiting our ability to spend money over the summer (I know we can exceed the cap over the summer and then use LTIR, but unless they are gone for an entire season we will need to leave space to bring them off LTIR and be showcased for a trade).

Having both suffer long term injuries is a complete disaster for our ability to shed cap space.

You can shed space from other areas. The only real option of the two was trading Gunnarsson, but his 2.9 million isn't that bad. You can gain an additional 7.35 million simply by moving Sobotka and Berglund which both would receive interest from other clubs. There are other players who could be moved, but I don't see it happening, maybe Allen if you find a taker. Don't forget that Brodziak, Upshall, Jaskin (RFA), and Sundqvist (RFA) all come off the books as well. It's not a lot, but that's 3.5 million as well. If I was looking at CapFriendly correctly for 2018/2019, if you don't re-sign anyone before, they have 11.7 million in cap space. That's not a lot without moving some other pieces, which I expect Armstrong to do. Also, you never know on injured players. Vancouver or another team in the midst of a rebuild may take on Gunnarsson even though he's injured, if you give them a pick. It'll be interesting to see what Armstrong does. He definitely has his work cut out for him.

 

[DatDude44]

You can shed space from other areas. The only real option of the two was trading Gunnarsson, but his 2.9 million isn't that bad. You can gain an additional 7.35 million simply by moving Sobotka and Berglund which both would receive interest from other clubs. There are other players who could be moved, but I don't see it happening, maybe Allen if you find a taker. Don't forget that Brodziak, Upshall, Jaskin (RFA), and Sundqvist (RFA) all come off the books as well. It's not a lot, but that's 3.5 million as well. If I was looking at CapFriendly correctly for 2018/2019, if you don't re-sign anyone before, they have 11.7 million in cap space. That's not a lot without moving some other pieces, which I expect Armstrong to do. Also, you never know on injured players. Vancouver or another team in the midst of a rebuild may take on Gunnarsson even though he's injured, if you give them a pick. It'll be interesting to see what Armstrong does. He definitely has his work cut out for him.

and don't forget the extra 4mill w/ the cap ceiling going up.

 

[Stealth JD]

I keep Gunnarsson 100 times out of 100 if the choice is between he and JBo.
I think somebody will take a flier on Bouwmeester between December-February, if not sooner.
Here there is simply no room for a $5.5M cap hit who drags down every partner he plays with.

Eddy-Petro
Dunn-Parayko
Gunnar-Bortuzzo/Schmaltz

I really hope Schmaltz doesn't go the path of Blais and prove to be too frail for the NHL...because he's looked promising in his time up this year. If you can get a surprise in camp next year, like Walman or Mikkola, maybe you make a big-time move...

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

If the Hawks can get away with the Hossa “injury”, we should be able to do the same with JBo

 

[Dbrownss]

If the Hawks can get away with the Hossa “injury”, we should be able to do the same with JBo

Given how crappy he's been returning from Injury, it wouldn't surprise me. I doubt the Blues LTIR him for the remainder of his year unless they absolutely need the money

 

[Brian39]

If the Hawks can get away with the Hossa “injury”, we should be able to do the same with JBo

The Hawks had doctors willing to go on the record that they were concerned about the long term affects of Hossa continuing the medication he had to take for his condition if he were to continue playing hockey. I don't buy this Hossa conspiracy theory. This is not the year they would have wanted to LTIR him. They desperately needed Hossa the player more than the LTIR savings they got this season.

Unless we have doctors willing to say J-Bo can't be cleared to play, good luck with that. There is very, very little chance J-Bo will voluntarily sit out and got along with LTIRetirement if he is physically capable of going.

 

[Brian39]

You can shed space from other areas. The only real option of the two was trading Gunnarsson, but his 2.9 million isn't that bad. You can gain an additional 7.35 million simply by moving Sobotka and Berglund which both would receive interest from other clubs. There are other players who could be moved, but I don't see it happening, maybe Allen if you find a taker. Don't forget that Brodziak, Upshall, Jaskin (RFA), and Sundqvist (RFA) all come off the books as well. It's not a lot, but that's 3.5 million as well. If I was looking at CapFriendly correctly for 2018/2019, if you don't re-sign anyone before, they have 11.7 million in cap space. That's not a lot without moving some other pieces, which I expect Armstrong to do. Also, you never know on injured players. Vancouver or another team in the midst of a rebuild may take on Gunnarsson even though he's injured, if you give them a pick. It'll be interesting to see what Armstrong does. He definitely has his work cut out for him.

I'm not saying we are in cap hell, but it's $3-$5.4 mil in space that we assumed would be replaced with a $1-$1.4 mil player who wouldn't downgrade the roster. Bergie might be hard to move with his still-strong NTC and moving Bergie and Sobotka means we have to fill five top 9 forward spots (4 if you pencil in Fabbri). That is a lot to fill and we can't do it internally if we want to push for playoffs. I'd like to upgrade Bergie/Sobotka, but upgrades will cost cap space too. You can't replace those 2 and the other holes with all ELC players. We can't assume that 4 of Barby, Thompson, Kyrou, Kostin, Jaskin, Thomas, Sanford, Sundqvist, Soshnikov, and Foley will be good enough to comprise half of your top 9 forward group. A good chunk of the $7.5 mil cleared up by shedding Bergie and Sobotka will be used bringing in replacements/upgrades to those guys.

The reason this is a blow is because one of Gunnar/J-Bo is replaceable with an ELC. There is only 1 LD spot after Ed/Dunn and Petro/Parayko/Bortz have the right side locked up. Even without Walman or Schmaltz proving to be NHL ready, all we need is a 3rd LD and a 7th D man. You don't need both J-Bo and Gunnar for that. We could have kept one and then acquired a cheap UFA vet to compete with Schmaltz/Walman for the 7th spot. It was clearing cap space from a surplus area instead of trying to clear cap space from the forward group while simultaneously trying to upgrade that group. This was the year to scrimp on blue line depth and allow Walman/Schmaltz to be the injury depth. Now it is unlikely we can clear that space over the summer and may not even be able to spend to the cap completely since we will have to have enough space to bring one of them off LTIR at some point in the year to showcase for a trade.

It is going to take some cap wizardry to seriously pursue Tavares, goaltending, and middle 6 forward upgrade(s). Not being able to clear the obvious few mil on the back end is a big blow and very well might take us out of the running for one (or more) of those things. There is a good chance this will force us into camp knowing our team is incomplete and just having to wait until a month or two into the season to fix it. That's not the time to be a buyer and it is really frustrating.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

“This thread is now closed.”

- Jake Allen

He is still 9 % points above mrazek since the latter came to Philly. However Moose is making a comeback tonight. Cant wait for that ride to begin.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

Husso recalled. I’d love to see him get these last two games.

 

[Mike Liut]

Husso recalled. I’d love to see him get these last two games.

Please play him

 

[Vladys Gumption]

I would be astounded if he starts tomorrow. I get the feeling they brought him up with the intention of starting him against Colorado if they win tonight and we lose tomorrow.

A sort of reward for his good season and it won’t matter since we would be out in that scenario.

 

[PiggySmalls]

I didn’t think Hutton looked comfortable in Arizona. So not being 100% is what might have triggered the recall.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

I think it’d be a bold move to start him tomorrow, but that also might be the best thing for us.

 

[EastonBlues22]

I seriously doubt that the Blues have any desire to move on from Bouwmeester before his contract expires.

 

[thedustman]

18 wins to the cup my fellow blue notes

 

[Blanick]

Wow wasn't expecting Husso to come back up to the NHL this year. I don't think Hutton is healthy hence their reluctance to use him. I still think they start Jake tomorrow but I bet Army has given orders for a short leash on Allen tomorrow. One bad goal and I bet he gets yanked.

 

[STL fan in MN]

I didn’t think Hutton looked comfortable in Arizona. So not being 100% is what might have triggered the recall.

Agreed. While crazy explanations are interesting, the most obvious explanation for Husso being recalled is that Hutts still isn’t 100%.

I’d be shocked if Husso got the start tomorrow.

I wouldn’t be sad or upset if Husso started, but I’d be shocked.

 

[HF007]

is hutton 100% not starting tomorrow?

 

[Brian39]

I seriously doubt that the Blues have any desire to move on from Bouwmeester before his contract expires.

I agree, but I could have seen a trade of J-Bo had he stayed healthy, had a good year and someone had blown us away with an offer. Realistically, I think the plan was to move Gunnar this summer. I included J-Bo because his injury destroyed any chance that we would get a "can't refuse" offer on him. Additionally, we don't really know for sure what his level of play will be like when he returns, which makes it more difficult to trade Gunnar right away (if Gunnar is healthy first).

 

[simon IC]

I think we are sorely missing both Gunnarsson and Bouwmeester right now. One member of our community very astutely posted recently, that Parayko's somewhat disappointing play of late might be because he is no longer paired with a defensive minded partner. I love Dunn just as much as the rest of you, but I don't think he is a good partner for Colton. A healthy, (and I mean 100%!), Bouwmeester would be an ideal partner for Parayko.

• Edmundson/Pietrangelo
• Bouwmeester/Parayko
• Dunn/Bortuzzo

I understand that some would like to see 6 PMD's, but I think a balance of defensive D's paired with PMD's would be more effective. (As long as the defensive D's have the minimum skills to keep up with the play. I am convinced they do in my scenario). Defensive D's are underrated around here. These pairings also alternate right and left between PMD's and DD's, giving us a more balanced attack, being less predictable, and thus more difficult to defend against. For those who would argue that Dunn is not a 3rd pairing D, I counter with it is more 3 equal pairings with Dunn getting more PP minutes. This may not be popular with JBo critics, and of course everything depends on #19's recovery. I just think it is too early to give up on him yet.

 

[BleedBlue14]

I think we are sorely missing both Gunnarsson and Bouwmeester right now. One of our community very astutely posted that Parayko's somewhat disappointing play might be because he is no longer paired with a defensive minded partner. I love Dunn just as much as the rest of you, but I don't think he is a good partner for Colton. A healthy, (and I mean 100%!), Bouwmeester would be an ideal partner for Parayko.

• Edmundson/Pietrangelo
• Bouwmeester/Parayko
• Dunn/Bortuzzo

I understand that some would like to see 6 PMD's, but I think a balance of defensive D's paired with PMD's would be more effective. (As long as the defensive D's have the minimum skills to keep up with the play. I am convinced they do in my scenario). Defensive D's are underrated around here. These pairings also alternate right and left between PMD's and DD's, giving us a more balanced attack, being less predictable, and thus more difficult to defend against. For those who would argue that Dunn is not a 3rd pairing D, I counter with it is more 3 equal pairings with Dunn getting more PP minutes. This may not be popular with JBo critics, and of course everything depends on #19's recovery. I just think it is too early to give up on him yet.

I just don't think Parayko thinks the game near the same wavelength as Dunn. Ideally Parayko and his skill set would be unbelievable next to Dunn. But watching those two together one is always thinking left while the other is thinking right.

Eddy was always a great partner for 55. The issue is, Eddy is one of our horses who has shown capable of playing 25+ minutes a night. I'm not sure with the season on the line you want Dunn doing that. There is also no shot in hell you don't have Petro doing that. So that leaves a predicament. Either you ice the bottom pairings the same amount of time, you give Dunn the 25 minutes with Pietro, you drop Colts numbers and have him play with Butler, or you play Butler 20 mins and lose the offensive ability and puck moving ability of Dunn to 15 per night. None of this is ideal and the bottom line is Colt needs to have his head shook, Dunn needs to gain a year or two of experience tonight while he's sleeping, or Colt is going to have to move down to play with Butler. I think we can all agree that the Dunn Parayko pairing has been absolutely atrocious the past few games.

Also, if Mike Yeo can't get this team prepared to play tomorrow and Saturday he needs to be fired instantly. I'm sick of his management of the powerplay and the inability he has to make this team focus at least 75% of the time. You can blame the team but peer to peer criticism can only do so much. The guy that holds all the decision in playing time (equating to each players performance) needs to be able to prepare this team more than anyone and I am in no way shape or form seeing this.

 

[simon IC]

I just don't think Parayko thinks the game near the same wavelength as Dunn. Ideally Parayko and his skill set would be unbelievable next to Dunn. But watching those two together one is always thinking left while the other is thinking right.

Eddy was always a great partner for 55. The issue is, Eddy is one of our horses who has shown capable of playing 25+ minutes a night. I'm not sure with the season on the line you want Dunn doing that. There is also no shot in hell you don't have Petro doing that. So that leaves a predicament. Either you ice the bottom pairings the same amount of time, you give Dunn the 25 minutes with Parayko, you drop Colts numbers and have him play with Butler, or you play Butler 20 mins and lose the offensive ability and puck moving ability of Dunn to 15 per night. None of this is ideal and the bottom line is Colt needs to have his head shook, Dunn needs to gain a year or two of experience tonight while he's sleeping, or Colt is going to have to move down to play with Butler. I think we can all agree that the Dunn Parayko pairing has been absolutely atrocious the past few games.

Also, if Mike Yeo can't get this team prepared to play tomorrow and Saturday he needs to be fired instantly. I'm sick of his management of the powerplay and the inability he has to make this team focus at least 75% of the time. You can blame the team but peer to peer criticism can only do so much. The guy that holds all the decision in playing time (equating to each players performance) needs to be able to prepare this team more than anyone and I am in no way shape or form seeing this.

Excellent post. Very well stated. I guess there is no purpose in moaning over the loss of Gunnar and Bouw. It is what it is. I just find it interesting that the two most "tradable" players are now the most sorely missed. As for defense pairings, here is a heretical thought. If I were Yeo, I would play Bortuzzo more. Honestly! I would have Ed and Petro eating the big minutes, and then alternate BobbB with Dunn and Parayko. BB has shown he can play both sides. This would minimize Butler's play, whenever BB needs rest. I only hope Bortuzzo can handle it, he seems to be injury prone. That is what I would do. But I'm not Yeo.

 

[BleedBlue14]

Excellent post. Very well stated. I guess there is no purpose in moaning over the loss of Gunnar and Bouw. It is what it is. I just find it interesting that the two most "tradable" players are now the most sorely missed. As for defense pairings, here is a heretical thought. If I were Yeo, I would play Bortuzzo more. Honestly! I would have Ed and Petro eating the big minutes, and then alternate BobbB with Dunn and Parayko. BB has shown he can play both sides. This would minimize Butler's play, whenever BB needs rest. I only hope Bortuzzo can handle it, he seems to be injury prone. That is what I would do. But I'm not Yeo.

Well if we mainly take the last game into account I would absolutely ice Bort more. Bort is a fine 3rd pairing guy, but giving him upwards of 20+ is a disaster waiting to happen if you look at his full body of work (mainly when paired with Gunnarsson, those two were a train wreck).

With the options we have though at the moment, I would agree that someone is going to have to eat minutes from Reinke/Butler. Honestly the losses of Gunnar and Schmaltz are killing us right now. Butler wasn't horrible last game for most of the game, the problem was when he was awful it costed us one if not two points.

The way that I would play Bort more though honestly would be limiting Paraykos ES minutes and having Dunn and Bort play as the second pairing. Colt and Dunn are going to have to learn to play together if they want to both remain on the Blues which I really hope they do. Either that or Dunn is going to have to turn into a horse which I don't think we'll like due to his aggressive playing style (takes a lot of risks which typically pay off due to his skill level).

FWIW Dunn Bort has actually looked like a pretty solid pairing in the past.

 

[EastonBlues22]

I don't know what these last couple of games has done to it, but it wasn't all that long ago that Dunn-Parayko was statistically (by CF% based measures) our best pairing based upon a pretty sizable chunk of the season. We certainly didn't see anything routinely from them like what we've seen in the last couple of games, because there would have been a lot of talk about it if we had.

Personally, I consider it something of an aberration based on the sum total of what they've done together this year. It's really only sticking out because it's so out of character for what one is used to seeing from them and because of the recency effect. I have zero concern about those two playing together next year, or even next game.