2017-2018 Blues Discussion Thread Part Three

[KilmKostin]

Schenn the first Blues center since Dougie Weight (03-04) to have 65 points.

 

[Bluesguru]

Schenn the first Blues center since Dougie Weight (03-04) to have 65 points.

Is that good news or bad news?

 

[Itsnotatrap]

Schenn the first Blues center since Dougie Weight (03-04) to have 65 points.

In 2031 Schenn will be coaching the last year of former #1 pick Tom Javares contract, and there will be a 30 page thread on this forum about how he would be the perfect fit to finally get the Cup to St. Louis.

 

[TruBlu]

Regardless of whether we make it into the playoffs or not, there is much to be excited about for Blues fans. Schenn was a perfect fit for our organization, Dunn jumped from a nobody to a top 4 dman, and Parayko has done nothing but improve the whole time he's been here. Our D is set for years to come. I'm excited to see what DA does this offseason to get us some offense. Schwartz and Schenn are gold as long as they are kept together, but I think we will finally see Tank hit 50 once we get some talent to take the pressure off of him.

 

[Brian39]

There is no doubt in my mind that every game we are cheering for regulation will go to overtime. I think the odds are very good that the season will come down to the game in Denver on Saturday and might even be one of those games where one team needs to avoid OT.

 

[PiggySmalls]

So on Stellick and Simmer this morning (NHL Network Radio) Andy Strickland was on discussing the lose but they talked a majority of the time about their inept PP. Rob Simpson (Simmer) said he was watching the Blues PP practice the other day with Panger and that Tarasenko stood around mainly talking to the coaches and players about getting him the puck more and complaining when he didn’t. I really hope that was just taken out of context and is a result of a season of PP failure.

 

[Note Worthy]

So on Stellick and Simmer this morning (NHL Network Radio) Andy Strickland was on discussing the lose but they talked a majority of the time about their inept PP. Rob Simpson (Simmer) said he was watching the Blues PP practice the other day with Panger and that Tarasenko stood around mainly talking to the coaches and players about getting him the puck more and complaining when he didn’t. I really hope that was just taken out of context and is a result of a season of PP failure.

Well he does have the best shot on the team so I would be in favor of getting him the puck more. So long as it's not when he's on the point.

 

[Brian39]

So on Stellick and Simmer this morning (NHL Network Radio) Andy Strickland was on discussing the lose but they talked a majority of the time about their inept PP. Rob Simpson (Simmer) said he was watching the Blues PP practice the other day with Panger and that Tarasenko stood around mainly talking to the coaches and players about getting him the puck more and complaining when he didn’t. I really hope that was just taken out of context and is a result of a season of PP failure.

That's exactly what we should be doing. Our PP should be based around Tarasenko hanging in an area where he wants to take shots from. The entire rest of the PP should be about exploiting the 4 on 3 created when the other team leaves a man on Tarasenko or getting him the puck if the other team backs him off. You don't need 5 guys all moving around on a PP. Our problem is that we generally have 3-4 guys standing around.

 

[ezcreepin]

That's exactly what we should be doing. Our PP should be based around Tarasenko hanging in an area where he wants to take shots from. The entire rest of the PP should be about exploiting the 4 on 3 created when the other team leaves a man on Tarasenko or getting him the puck if the other team backs him off. You don't need 5 guys all moving around on a PP. Our problem is that we generally have 3-4 guys standing around.

The only problem is getting him the puck with enough time for him to make a decision. He missed the net quite a lot this season and also doesn't use a slapshot, so the ability for him to as effective as he could is less than some other players like Schenn or JVR. He has had times this season where he is hesitant on shooting the puck when he has a clear shot, and then he elects to pass it... sooo what do you do? Obviously he has the best potential to score given his shot, but if you've got like 2 people doggin him, it's kind of hard to get him a good look. This all goes back to having a formidable enough offense to keep the opposing players honest.

 

[Brian39]

The only problem is getting him the puck with enough time for him to make a decision. He missed the net quite a lot this season and also doesn't use a slapshot, so the ability for him to as effective as he could is less than some other players like Schenn or JVR. He has had times this season where he is hesitant on shooting the puck when he has a clear shot, and then he elects to pass it... sooo what do you do? Obviously he has the best potential to score given his shot, but if you've got like 2 people doggin him, it's kind of hard to get him a good look. This all goes back to having a formidable enough offense to keep the opposing players honest.

The fact that he is talking to coaches about this tells me that he is deferring on shots because the coaching staff doesn't want to run the powerplay through him like that. It tells me that he is frustrated with our PP and wants a change in the structure. You're point about 2 people dogging him is exactly what I want to see. We want the PK focused on shutting him down and not pressuring the points like PKs do against us right now. Our PP efforts should be centered towards getting the other team to focus on Tarasenko so that we have a odd man situations and openings for the other 4 guys.

Right now we are asking Tarasenko to generate PP chances via passing lanes and movement. That should be the job of everyone else on the PP because Schenn, Schwartz, Petro and probably Dunn are all better at that than Tarasenko and all things being equal you want Tarasenko to be the trigger man at the end of a play.

I'm not trying to say Tarasenko is perfect and has been good enough on the PP. He hasn't. My point is that I don't see it as a bad thing at all that he is fed up with the structure of the PP and wants to try something centered around set plays where he is simply waiting as a decoy or a shot option from a dangerous place. We don't do that at all on the PP and he is a top 5 shooter in the league. Let's try it instead of viewing his desire to try it as selfish.

 

[izzy]

Tarasenko should just be a little wrist shot turret on the powerplay. Similar to the ovechkin slap shot turret

 

[MissouriMook]

“This thread is now closed.”

- Jake Allen

 

[Spektre]

Is it too early for the 2018-19 Blues thread?

Army has a lot of serious decisions and positions to fill this offseason. He was unmistakenly disappointed on the Keith goal. Going into this year he had to think Allen, and the goalie position, was secured being a position of strength. Here we are at the end of the year and Allen has regressed, yet again.

We can all find faults with how Allen has played but nobody forced Army to give him this contract. Sadly, I think Allen is the classic example of an organization falling in love with their own asset. He’s a very serviceable backup goalie but there’s absolutely zero chance he should ever be the #1 guy.

The Blues currently have at least two top 6 holes to fill. One of those is a 1st or 2nd line center. That’s if you consider Steen a top 6 player. To me Steen is between a top 6 and top 9 guy. He’s slow as f***. He’s not getting any better next year and he won’t hit 50 points this year.

The huge *if* factor is Fabbri. If he can return to form that’s 1 legitimate top 6 position filled. I would aim for 2 more including a center. Thomas and Kyrou have too much talent to not be on this roster next year barring either one is traded. It’s not like they would be forced into top 6 minutes. They’ll have some struggles and learning to do but it’s not going to happen in the minors. They have the talent and speed this team needs more of.

I think Sobotka is gone for sure. It won’t surprise me if they try to trade Berglund too but it might be harder to move him. The biggest problem is even if the Blues fill the forward positions, they have to figure out the most important position in all of sports, the goalie. Army put himself behind the eight ball by signing players to extensions before he had to. This Allen situation is the worst one.

There will probably be a lot of conversations between Army and other GM’s between now and the draft. It’s impossible to guess next year’s roster. Hopefully the Blues can finally get a goalie that is a true #1 guy. My best guess is the 1st round pick and Kyrou will be the trade bait to fill a top 6 spot. I’m hoping Kyrou and Thomas are a Blue next year but time will tell.

 

[Borderbluesfan]

I usually hate to criticize the goalie in what is a team game, but tonight and really this season can be blamed on less than average goalie play by our starting goalie. I don't blame Allen, he is what he is, which is the fact that he isn't a true NHL starting goalie. He has all the physical talents to be a good, if not great goalie. But while stopping hard shots against, he has a very bad habit of allowing bad goals on shots from bad angles and soft goals on shots that most NHL goalies should stop. Armstrong made a bad choice giving him starting, top goalie money when Allen hadn't proven that he can play a full season as a number 1 goalie. Allen has had a couple of mid-season meltdowns. Armstrong rewarded him for one good playoff run.

 

[EXTRAS]

Why is nolan stevens not playing nhl or ahl hockey? Injury?

 

[Alklha]

Why is nolan stevens not playing nhl or ahl hockey? Injury?

He isn't in the lineup because they don't think he is ready.

Why isn't he in the AHL? We don't know. Might be an issue with the number of roster spots we have at that level, or it might simply be that remaining on the NHL roster for the remainder of the season was part of the agreement when he signed his ELC. I'd go for the latter.

 

[Renard]

Is it too early for the 2018-19 Blues thread?

Army has a lot of serious decisions and positions to fill this offseason. He was unmistakenly disappointed on the Keith goal. Going into this year he had to think Allen, and the goalie position, was secured being a position of strength. Here we are at the end of the year and Allen has regressed, yet again.

We can all find faults with how Allen has played but nobody forced Army to give him this contract. Sadly, I think Allen is the classic example of an organization falling in love with their own asset. He’s a very serviceable backup goalie but there’s absolutely zero chance he should ever be the #1 guy.

The Blues currently have at least two top 6 holes to fill. One of those is a 1st or 2nd line center. That’s if you consider Steen a top 6 player. To me Steen is between a top 6 and top 9 guy. He’s slow as ****. He’s not getting any better next year and he won’t hit 50 points this year.

The huge *if* factor is Fabbri. If he can return to form that’s 1 legitimate top 6 position filled. I would aim for 2 more including a center. Thomas and Kyrou have too much talent to not be on this roster next year barring either one is traded. It’s not like they would be forced into top 6 minutes. They’ll have some struggles and learning to do but it’s not going to happen in the minors. They have the talent and speed this team needs more of.

I think Sobotka is gone for sure. It won’t surprise me if they try to trade Berglund too but it might be harder to move him. The biggest problem is even if the Blues fill the forward positions, they have to figure out the most important position in all of sports, the goalie. Army put himself behind the eight ball by signing players to extensions before he had to. This Allen situation is the worst one.

There will probably be a lot of conversations between Army and other GM’s between now and the draft. It’s impossible to guess next year’s roster. Hopefully the Blues can finally get a goalie that is a true #1 guy. My best guess is the 1st round pick and Kyrou will be the trade bait to fill a top 6 spot. I’m hoping Kyrou and Thomas are a Blue next year but time will tell.

Going into training camp, I thought that Allen was a big plus for the team. But I was surprised to hear Army's comments about him in a radio interview at the time. Army was very reserved in his comments, remarking that Allen had some success in the playoffs, but still had a lot to prove going forward, especially in the area of consistent play in the upcoming season.

Allen's poor performance is a big blow to the organization. They have groomed him for the starting job, and he's held the job for a while, but now he seems to have lost the job for good.

I don't want the Blues to spend another high draft choice on a goalie. The position is way too unpredictable. I hope they fill the position from within, maybe Hutton and Husso as a tandem.

 

[Alklha]

Going into training camp, I thought that Allen was a big plus for the team. But I was surprised to hear Army's comments about him in a radio interview at the time. Army was very reserved in his comments, remarking that Allen had some success in the playoffs, but still had a lot to prove going forward, especially in the area of consistent play in the upcoming season.

Allen's poor performance is a big blow to the organization. They have groomed him for the starting job, and he's held the job for a while, but now he seems to have lost the job for good.

I don't want the Blues to spend another high draft choice on a goalie. The position is way too unpredictable. I hope they fill the position from within, maybe Hutton and Husso as a tandem.

Allen was terrible for a significant stretch last season, the difference is that he turned it around and maintained a strong performance through the playoffs.

This season is similar to last season.

It's funny that Armstrong could be reserved last summer, since that is when he should have been dealing with an Allen extension. Instead he had done the damage in 2016 for some inexplicable reason.

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

Allen was terrible for a significant stretch last season, the difference is that he turned it around and maintained a strong performance through the playoffs.

This season is similar to last season.

It's funny that Armstrong could be reserved last summer, since that is when he should have been dealing with an Allen extension. Instead he had done the damage in 2016 for some inexplicable reason.

That's one of Armstrong's true faults. He deals with contracts too soon. Allen's and Steen's felt panic driven more than merit. Armstrong will have to do an even bigger job this off-season than last. He's got to find a way to rid this team of 21, 71, and now, 34. I don't know how or if he can, but it's got to find a way. I'm more than certain some team would be willing to take on Jake Allen. He's a prime candidate now for a change of scenery, goalie coach can fix him, etc. 71 will probably be included in a package for a player. For Berglund, I think Armstrong needs to convince Jarmo and company with the Blue Jackets to take him. Jarmo drafted him and Columbus made the playoffs this year (I think), so maybe he'll be able to work something out.

 

[Alklha]

That's one of Armstrong's true faults. He deals with contracts too soon. Allen's and Steen's felt panic driven more than merit. Armstrong will have to do an even bigger job this off-season than last. He's got to find a way to rid this team of 21, 71, and now, 34. I don't know how or if he can, but it's got to find a way. I'm more than certain some team would be willing to take on Jake Allen. He's a prime candidate now for a change of scenery, goalie coach can fix him, etc. 71 will probably be included in a package for a player. For Berglund, I think Armstrong needs to convince Jarmo and company with the Blue Jackets to take him. Jarmo drafted him and Columbus made the playoffs this year (I think), so maybe he'll be able to work something out.

We have to be careful not to conflate those situations.

Jake Allen was going to be a RFA. He hadn't proven himself a starter. We gave him a new deal, on starters money, a year before he went to RFA. Armstrong is normally very patient in these situations. I don't remember any pending RFA getting a contract before the calendar year his deal was meant to expire. Pietrangelo, Parayko, Shattenkirk, Schwartz, Tarasenko, etc. None of them were dealt with that early, and all proved more.

Steen, Berglund and Sobotka were all pending UFA's, so there is more urgency in dealing with those contract situations. We moved Backes and Brouwer, and Steen was taking a term we were comfortable giving. I don't think there is any major issue with the deal he has, the issue is getting the rest of the forward roster together where we are putting players in positions to succeed.

The Jake Allen contract is so bizarre because Armstrong is always so patient with RFA's.

 

[Mike Liut]

To make some major moves would require trading players that I want to keep (Thomas, Kyrou and Kostin). Id rather give them a shot next year and trade Berglund and Sobotka.

 

[Alklha]

To make some major moves would require trading players that I want to keep (Thomas, Kyrou and Kostin). Id rather give them a shot next year and trade Berglund and Sobotka.

This offseason is determined by Tavares.

It looks fairly sure that Thomas will make the roster; he looks NHL ready and another season in the OHL probably isn't going to help him. Add Tavares and the numbers, both cap and players, is going to force the turnover we need.

Miss out on Tavares? I fear that we'll see the cap space used on "depth" rather than quality.

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

We have to be careful not to conflate those situations.

Jake Allen was going to be a RFA. He hadn't proven himself a starter. We gave him a new deal, on starters money, a year before he went to RFA. Armstrong is normally very patient in these situations. I don't remember any pending RFA getting a contract before the calendar year his deal was meant to expire. Pietrangelo, Parayko, Shattenkirk, Schwartz, Tarasenko, etc. None of them were dealt with that early, and all proved more.

Steen, Berglund and Sobotka were all pending UFA's, so there is more urgency in dealing with those contract situations. We moved Backes and Brouwer, and Steen was taking a term we were comfortable giving. I don't think there is any major issue with the deal he has, the issue is getting the rest of the forward roster together where we are putting players in positions to succeed.

The Jake Allen contract is so bizarre because Armstrong is always so patient with RFA's.

That's why I said it felt like a panic move, along with Steen's. Elliott wanted to be the #1 and Armstrong saw an opportunity to maximize his value, but he needed to lockup at least 1 goalie, especially through the expansion draft. I know Berglund and Sobotka were pending UFAs, but Steen was not, he had a year left and Allen was an RFA with a year left, but never a full NHL season under his belt as the #1.

I've praised Armstrong when he's made the right moves and criticized him for others. Three of those contracts are starting to look bad while the 4th, Steen's, is probably not going to be as bad as many, including myself, thought.

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

This offseason is determined by Tavares.

It looks fairly sure that Thomas will make the roster; he looks NHL ready and another season in the OHL probably isn't going to help him. Add Tavares and the numbers, both cap and players, is going to force the turnover we need.

Miss out on Tavares? I fear that we'll see the cap space used on "depth" rather than quality.

This scares me the most about this off-season. If Armstrong misses out on the big FA, does he go for depth instead of maybe trying to make a trade to get quality here. How much does Allen's continuous peaks and valley's this year change Armstrong's off-season plans as well.

To me, this team has three major holes on it's roster with another flaw that's not really a hole, but more a problem.

1. Top 6 Center
2. Top 6 Winger
3. Starting Goaltender

Problem: Too many bottom 6 "depth" players.

It's a lot to try and clear up in one off-season, but he's got to at least try. Personally, I would like to see Allen and Berglund somehow moved this off-season since Sobotka will be much easier to trade during the season. But again, my greatest fear is more depth and less actual quality.

 

[STL fan in MN]

He isn't in the lineup because they don't think he is ready.

Why isn't he in the AHL? We don't know. Might be an issue with the number of roster spots we have at that level, or it might simply be that remaining on the NHL roster for the remainder of the season was part of the agreement when he signed his ELC. I'd go for the latter.

I’d agree that the reason is almost certainly that the agreement was that he’d stay assigned to the Blues.

I’d assume Stevens would be eligible to play in the AHL playoffs though if SA makes their playoffs and the Blues don’t? (Blues currently sit at a 34% chance of making playoffs whereas SA is up to 76%)

The SA lineups look pretty weak lately so I’d think they would be willing to find a spot for Stevens but maybe not. The D looks the worst though with both Schmaltz and Butler missing.

Also, Foley hasn’t played for SA yet. I would assume he’s still dealing with that injury he sustained his last college game but I still haven’t heard a thing as to what the injury is or the expected duration. Anyone know?