Salary Cap: 2017-18 Roster Building Thread V | Contract/FA charts in Post #1 | CAP SET at $75M

[Giant Yankee Pens]

No decent backup is going to take a two way contract and let us stash him in Wilkes-Barre while he makes a fraction of what he would make up here. That doesn't really make sense anyways. You want Jarry playing games and continuing to get better, not sitting on the bench watching Murray play. Also, the jury is pretty much completely out on how good Jarry is or would be at this level. I would much rather have a guy like McElhinney who's been around the block than a complete unknown in Jarry if Murray goes down in the playoffs.

I never said a "decent backup". I would take a guy like Condon was last year. (Had NHL experience, but couldn't find an NHL job).

With that logic, Jarry will NEVER play in the NHL. His future here is as Murrays backup, if he wins the spot in camp, why not let him be Murrays backup? If he's bad or Murray is hurt and your u don't want him in the PO, pick up a goalie at the TD.

Would you rather have:

Jarry/0.7mm ahl/Have
Or
Kinkaid (2m)/Jarry(ahl)/2m winger

I wouldn't want to sacrifice Hags to delay Jarry from the spot he will be in with us long term anyway.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Duchene isn't even close to an elite talent so I really think some people are overrating him. It's possible he puts up 70 points in a better situation, but it's completely up in the air. In short, I like him but the guy is really not some holy grail of acquisitions.

 

[Shockmaster]

Not ready to give up Guentzel, Sprong or even our 1st next year in a stacked draft

I don't know why some are so obsessed with Duchene, but we really do not need him.

I prefer keeping our assets and adding a player or 2 via UFA

Bingo. They need a 3C, a 4C (maybe Dominic Moore), and a #4/#5 caliber defenseman. That's it.

 

[Malkinstheman]

Hes a reliable Kings Insider

Not that we had any chance but thats one less Center.

 

[BrokenStick]

In regards to Bonino it has to deal with the combination of AVV he wants along with the years. If it were 4M per, on a 1-3 year deal I doubt anyone, including myself would balk at it. But he wants that AVV salary/cap hit at 4 years. That's a bit long for a 3C at that hit.

Now if the Pens sign it, so be it, its not a crippling contract, or is it such a term that can be managed if his play falls off. But its the high bar for what the Pens should be giving him in both term and salary.

Id prefer they move on if he is hardline on the 4X4, but if they do sign it I would understand also.

He'd be 33 when the contract is up! It's not like he's in the twilight of his career. I don't know how much you're expecting his play to fall off.

Plus, it's not like it's an unmovable contract, assuming it's not full of NTC stuff.

That contract is an easy yes when we're talking about solidifying our top PK forward 3C throughout the rest of our cup window.

There is very little that we could do with that money that would make the team better than keeping Bonino would.

 

[mpp9]

Duchene isn't even close to an elite talent so I really think some people are overrating him. It's possible he puts up 70 points in a better situation, but it's completely up in the air. In short, I like him but the guy is really not some holy grail of acquisitions.

He's not even close? One of the fastest skaters in the game. An equally good playmaker as he is a goal scorer. 30 goals in 2016. Regular member of Team Canada.

I don't get the "overkill" argument. We're trying to build a dynasty. You need as much help as possible to achieve that. Adding Duchene makes us a legit 3 scoring line team again.

A valid worry is the cost. I'd give up Maatta+Jarry+1st. Beyond that is where it's difficult to say yes.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

I never said a "decent backup". I would take a guy like Condon was last year. (Had NHL experience, but couldn't find an NHL job).

With that logic, Jarry will NEVER play in the NHL. His future here is as Murrays backup, if he wins the spot in camp, why not let him be Murrays backup? If he's bad or Murray is hurt and your u don't want him in the PO, pick up a goalie at the TD.

Would you rather have:

Jarry/0.7mm ahl/Have
Or
Kinkaid (2m)/Jarry(ahl)/2m winger

I wouldn't want to sacrifice Hags to delay Jarry from the spot he will be in with us long term anyway.

I'm all for getting some random until the deadline and said as much a little bit ago. I just think we can get a guy for $700k-$1 million that makes everyone happy. I don't know who this winger is in your scenario though and I have no idea why Keith Kinkaid would get $2 million from anyone.

As for Jarry, the logic is that he's not ready yet and needs to continue improving his game. He doesn't do that backing up Murray, and honestly just so it's clear: the plan was always for him to be a starting caliber goalie. It just so happens we plucked a surprise stud goalie in the 3rd round just before selecting Jarry.

Jarry won't be here for long if he pans out and Murray isn't moved, which he probably won't be. Who knows though? At one time I'm sure people thought Fleury would be here until Jarry was about 25, with Murray not even being a thought in their minds. Anyways the point is Jarry isn't going to be a backup for the next ten years, at least not here.

 

[ncm7772]

I'd be ok with Kincaid or McElhinney.

 

[Coach Travis]

He's not even close? One of the fastest skaters in the game. An equally good playmaker as he is a goal scorer. 30 goals in 2016. Regular member of Team Canada.

I don't get the "overkill" argument. We're trying to build a dynasty. You need as much help as possible to achieve that. Adding Duchene makes us a legit 3 scoring line team again.

A valid worry is the cost. I'd give up Maatta+Jarry+1st. Beyond that is where it's difficult to say yes.

If we're going under the assumption that Sakic sees Maatta as valuable enough to be the major piece in a trade for Duchene, I don't think we should have to add that much. Duchene has 2 more years left. Maatta has 5.

 

[Giant Yankee Pens]

Okay, so given the Penguins current situation at wing, do they need Duchene or would he be a luxury? As for 3C, do you really want to pay the player at that position $6 million? And if that deal is made, what shape would the defense be in?

Dumo Letang
Cole Schultz
Daley Kulikov (6.5 m total)
Ruh

I'd be fine either way, but you have to admit that with the way Sully likes 3 scoring lines, Duchene is a very tempting option.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I've kind of talked myself into Hanzal, and Letang can have another injury buddy. If it's around the 4x4 Bonino might be getting then fine, I won't freak out about the risk.

 

[Peat]

If we do lose Maatta, I really don't like the solution of promoting Ian Cole and getting someone even worse in behind him. I don't think Cole's a better dman, I certainly don't think he's a guy you want at 4th on you depth chart. Not if you want to win a cup.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

I never said a "decent backup". I would take a guy like Condon was last year. (Had NHL experience, but couldn't find an NHL job).

With that logic, Jarry will NEVER play in the NHL. His future here is as Murrays backup, if he wins the spot in camp, why not let him be Murrays backup? If he's bad or Murray is hurt and your u don't want him in the PO, pick up a goalie at the TD.

Would you rather have:

Jarry/0.7mm ahl/Have
Or
Kinkaid (2m)/Jarry(ahl)/2m winger

I wouldn't want to sacrifice Hags to delay Jarry from the spot he will be in with us long term anyway.

Not saying that we'd be forced to trade Hags. Maybe we manage without clearing space. I'm simply saying that if we would want to clear space, Hags is probably the best option.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

He's not even close? One of the fastest skaters in the game. An equally good playmaker as he is a goal scorer. 30 goals in 2016. Regular member of Team Canada.

I don't get the "overkill" argument. We're trying to build a dynasty. You need as much help as possible to achieve that. Adding Duchene makes us a legit 3 scoring line team again.

A valid worry is the cost. I'd give up Maatta+Jarry+1st. Beyond that is where it's difficult to say yes.

His numbers don't blow my mind. If we're talking elite we're talking gets it done regardless. I wouldn't expect 80-90 points on the Avs, but his totals are underwhelming for supposedly being the crown jewel of acquisitions this summer. Maybe the "elite talent" means just that and I'm taking it the wrong way. Raw talent-wise maybe he is, or at least close. Results are a different matter though IMO.

His biggest attraction to me is he's a good center that will be 30 when our guys really slow down, and that's if we can re-sign him. Other than that, as I've said before I really do not know how many goals people want to see us score. Why don't we shore up the rest of the team since goal scoring is literally the last thing we need?

 

[SherogoesHAM]

Madden said yesterday that Rick Tocchet loves Evander Kane. Not saying the Penguins trade for him but Madden is probably closer with Tocchet than any other Penguins Staffer.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Dumo Letang
Cole Schultz
Daley Kulikov (6.5 m total)
Ruh

I'd be fine either way, but you have to admit that with the way Sully likes 3 scoring lines, Duchene is a very tempting option.

I don't think that's possible myself. That'd basically be Daley not taking a raise and Kulikov taking about a 30% pay cut.

 

[Dying Alive]

Most of this is what we already know, that Bonino will likely get overpaid elsewhere, but this was interesting:

Put simply, the UFA market at the position isn’t great; there’s no evidence of the Penguins showing any interest in Thornton or Hanzal. Plus, the top tier is probably too expensive for the Penguins.

Nothing definite there, only "no evidence" but you'd think that something would have leaked from someone if the Pens were at all interested in either of them.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

If we do lose Maatta, I really don't like the solution of promoting Ian Cole and getting someone even worse in behind him. I don't think Cole's a better dman, I certainly don't think he's a guy you want at 4th on you depth chart. Not if you want to win a cup.

No, Cole is a great 4/5 type. You won't be screwed when he's in the top 4 but you're really damn happy when he's the 5. He'd be really good for facilitating playing three pairings similar minutes though.

You can't trade Maatta and weaken the already shallow defense.

 

[mpp9]

His numbers don't blow my mind. If we're talking elite we're talking gets it done regardless. I wouldn't expect 80-90 points on the Avs, but his totals are underwhelming for supposedly being the crown jewel of acquisitions this summer. Maybe the "elite talent" means just that and I'm taking it the wrong way. Raw talent-wise maybe he is, or at least close. Results are a different matter though IMO.

His biggest attraction to me is he's a good center that will be 30 when our guys really slow down, and that's if we can re-sign him. Other than that, as I've said before I really do not know how many goals people want to see us score. Why don't we shore up the rest of the team since goal scoring is literally the last thing we need?

Isn't the idea to outscore the other team? Possess the puck. Outskate the opposition. Duchene ticks all those. Added bonus is his high end faceoff ability.

I go into this deal knowing I'm gonna re-sign him. The guy fits this team like a glove.

 

[Malkinstheman]

Most of this is what we already know, that Bonino will likely get overpaid elsewhere, but this was interesting:



Nothing definite there, only "no evidence" but you'd think that something would have leaked from someone if the Pens were at all interested in either of them.

Huh, thats weird. If they arent looking at anyone in FA or Bonino, who is even left? It must be a trade but i dont know who they would target. Guys like Haula/Jankrok wont be available now.

 

[Shockmaster]

He's not even close? One of the fastest skaters in the game. An equally good playmaker as he is a goal scorer. 30 goals in 2016. Regular member of Team Canada.

I don't get the "overkill" argument. We're trying to build a dynasty. You need as much help as possible to achieve that. Adding Duchene makes us a legit 3 scoring line team again.

A valid worry is the cost. I'd give up Maatta+Jarry+1st. Beyond that is where it's difficult to say yes.

But you keep ignoring the defense, which would be a -really- important part of becoming a dynasty. Being a superstar circus wasn't the key for the Penguins these last two seasons, nor will it be for this upcoming season.

 

[Malkinstheman]

So Mackey thinks Cullen returning isnt likely either.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I'm surprised they wouldn't kick the tyres on Hanzal.

Isn't the idea to outscore the other team? Possess the puck. Outskate the opposition. Duchene ticks all those. Added bonus is his high end faceoff ability.

I go into this deal knowing I'm gonna re-sign him. The guy fits this team like a glove.

Yeah, and the defense is part of possessing the puck and scoring.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Isn't the idea to outscore the other team? Possess the puck. Outskate the opposition. Duchene ticks all those. Added bonus is his high end faceoff ability.

I go into this deal knowing I'm gonna re-sign him. The guy fits this team like a glove.

We already do score more goals than anyone else. There are other components to the game. I don't really know how else to answer.

 

[Giant Yankee Pens]

I'm all for getting some random until the deadline and said as much a little bit ago. I just think we can get a guy for $700k-$1 million that makes everyone happy. I don't know who this winger is in your scenario though and I have no idea why Keith Kinkaid would get $2 million from anyone.

As for Jarry, the logic is that he's not ready yet and needs to continue improving his game. He doesn't do that backing up Murray, and honestly just so it's clear: the plan was always for him to be a starting caliber goalie. It just so happens we plucked a surprise stud goalie in the 3rd round just before selecting Jarry.

Jarry won't be here for long if he pans out and Murray isn't moved, which he probably won't be. Who knows though? At one time I'm sure people thought Fleury would be here until Jarry was about 25, with Murray not even being a thought in their minds. Anyways the point is Jarry isn't going to be a backup for the next ten years, at least not here.

The assumption was no decent backup would take under 1M. If Kinkaid or Mac or any of those types come at 1m or less you take em for sure, but no way I'm paying more. Jarry is more than fine if it's over 1m for a backup. Look at the young backups around the lleague. Talbot, Saros, Vas (until last year). These guys need NHL games before people will trade for them. Why not see if Jarry can win a job in camp?