Prospect Info: 2017-18 Flyers Prospects - Top 30 SKATERS, #15

[Striiker]

If everyone else is garbage then that says a lot about Vecchione, since he's a worse prospect than they are.

But it seems like your entire basis for judging prospects is likelihood to make the NHL, completely ignoring upside, so I guess that explains your opinion here. He may have the best chance, since all he needs to do is be a 4C, but the others have faaar more potential, even if less likely they reach it.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Great logic. Fast forward 2 seasons and think of what NAK could do playing in a league like the ECAC with another pro on his wing when he's the same age as Vecchione.

Saying someone is far and away a better prospect, this far down a prospect ranking, in which said prospect has as many as 6 years on his peers, seems like an exaggeration but that's just me.

Andy Miele once led the country in scoring too.

 

[Dumpster Flyers]

If everyone else is garbage then that says a lot about Vecchione, since he's a worse prospect than they are.

But it seems like your entire basis for judging prospects is likelihood to make the NHL, completely ignoring upside, so I guess that explains your opinion here. He may have the best chance, since all he needs to do is be a 4C, but the others have faaar more potential, even if less likely they reach it.

There's absolutely no rational reason to think they have more upside than Vecchione. Youth does not equal potential. I also don't understand why you're reiterating that Vecchione's upside is 4C. He has a scorer's skill set and can play wing.

Great logic. Fast forward 2 seasons and think of what NAK could do playing in a league like the ECAC with another pro on his wing when he's the same age as Vecchione.

Saying someone is far and away a better prospect, this far down a prospect ranking, in which said prospect has as many as 6 years on his peers, seems like an exaggeration but that's just me.

Vecchione is only this far down the rankings because of delusion. For instance, thinking two years of development will turn NAK into a prolific scorer. There are no comparables I'm aware of to support that trajectory, so you're counting on some sort of anomaly. Also, the ECAC is in no way weak enough a conference to dismiss them as some fodder league. It's disingenuous at best.

 

[FLYguy3911]

I'm guessing you have a good feel for NAK's trajectory based on all those Phantoms games you openly admit you do not watch.

Scoring from the ECAC translates worse than scoring from the QMJHL FYI. I mean Vecchione was a sub-PPG player as a 23 year old. I wouldn't bank on him becoming a big scorer at the next level and if he plans on playing above the 4th line, good luck with that.

He's also older than Ghost who's already on his 2nd NHL contract and if you don't think that means anything I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Striiker]

There's absolutely no rational reason to think they have more upside than Vecchione. Youth does not equal potential. I also don't understand why you're reiterating that Vecchione's upside is 4C. He has a scorer's skill set and can play wing.

There's plenty of rational reasons, none of which are youth.

And you could make a preeeeeeetty lengthy list of players who were scorers in college/juniors but aren't able to do the same as a pro. He'll be added to that list soon enough.

 

[Rebels57]

I vote based on a combination of ceiling and likelihood of reaching it. Vex doesnt have a high ceiling but has a good chance of reaching it. I have him in the top 20 but its not his time yet.

 

[Magua]

I am curious if people who think this way about Vecchione would vote Leier right after him. Because I don't see a giant distinction, other than possible (and perhaps not even) positional value. Similar size too. Vecchione is still a year older and didn't even start college until Leier was an AHL rookie. They both seem like low ceiling almost ready 4th liners, but Leier is more proven at the AHL level. For consistency's sake I'm just wondering, not that I'd have either this high.

If Vecchione was in the system for years already does he get this bump? Or is it a matter of being the new thing and not having that AHL staleness set in yet? Leier was really high ranked last year.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Thats how I feel about him.

ANd yeah... i'm juggling between Hogberg, Bernhardt, Kase and Strome... think those guys have the higher upside of the remaining prospects.

I'm not sure where to rank Kase. I like him every time I see him. But his minute size and minimal offensive upside make me think his NHL ceiling is extremely limited, which is why I have Hogberg, Strome, and Bernhardt ahead of him. He has more heart than NAK has shown so far, though. I'm rooting for him.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I am curious if people who think this way about Vecchione would vote Leier right after him. Because I don't see a giant distinction, other than possible (and perhaps not even) positional value. Similar size too. Vecchione is still a year older and didn't even start college until Leier was an AHL rookie. They both seem like low ceiling almost ready 4th liners, but Leier is more proven at the AHL level. For consistency's sake I'm just wondering, not that I'd have either this high.

If Vecchione was in the system for years already does he get this bump? Or is it a matter of being the new thing and not having that AHL staleness set in yet? Leier was really high ranked last year.

Yes. Shiny new toy combined with the "He picked us!" warm and fuzzies and that while he was a known name for sure and had contract offers last offseason, he wasn't one of the biggest NCAA names on the market like he was this year. The stink was before the attention.

 

[Tripod]

Yes. Shiny new toy combined with the "He picked us!" warm and fuzzies and that while he was a known name for sure and had contract offers last offseason, he wasn't one of the biggest NCAA names on the market like he was this year. The stink was before the attention.

What I found funny, was that the Oilers NCAA summer signing is their highest ranked C. I had no clue who he was so had to ho check.

 

[Pantokrator]

I went Strome. I was thinking Leier or NAK but Strome seems to have a higher ceiling.

This is me. I actually voted for Leier each of the last two rounds, but gave up and went with Strome.

 

[deadhead]

"Vecchione just won the NCAA scoring race."

Here's the problem - look at the top NCAA scorers, guys who were never drafted at the top, followed by some top draft picks who'll leave college by the end of their sophomore season and never compete for the scoring title.

College hockey is a bit weird that way, a lot of overage second tier talents and some top talent that leaves early. So you compete primarily against older, but less talented players, whereas in juniors you compete against younger, but more talented (just check the draft picks in juniors v college) players.

Vecchione scored a lot, yet the NHL talent meisters pretty much ignored him, nor was it size, while he's a little short, he's not small like Leier. Now you can come out and college and make it, see Read, but the odds are stacked against you.

 

[Curufinwe]

Because he's actually talented. The better question is what have guys like NAK and Bunnaman and done to show any sort of upside? Vecchione just won the NCAA scoring race.

They're kind of garbage. NAK would be lucky to make the NHL as a 4th liner.

Score 37 goals in the CHL as 18 year olds. What did Vecchione do when he was 18? Score 10 goals in the USHL.

If they're garbage then Hextall and the Flyers must be fools for giving them ELCs when they did.

 

[deadhead]

Leier and AK have had similar career trajectories, AK had a better post-draft season, Leier caught up in his draft +2 season. Leier put up better AHL numbers his first year, but that was due to PP scoring.

The primary difference between the two is AK has a NHL body, Leier is small by NHL standards (5'11 177 at 2016 TC), especially for a checking line. MK is competing with these two for a similar role, he has a body similar to AK but he's not as fast.

I think Leier has a shot at a 3rd line spot as a two way forward who can give you 15-15 30, but not on this team.

 

[Dumpster Flyers]

Yes. Shiny new toy combined with the "He picked us!" warm and fuzzies and that while he was a known name for sure and had contract offers last offseason, he wasn't one of the biggest NCAA names on the market like he was this year. The stink was before the attention.

Or alternatively, he hasn't had time to benefit from the fan-driven hype machine.

Score 37 goals in the CHL as 18 year olds. What did Vecchione do when he was 18? Score 10 goals in the USHL.

If they're garbage then Hextall and the Flyers must be fools for giving them ELCs when they did.

That's silly. Of course Vecchione didn't accomplish much when he was 18, or else he would have been drafted. He's a late bloomer. Maybe someone like NAK can

"Vecchione just won the NCAA scoring race."

Here's the problem - look at the top NCAA scorers, guys who were never drafted at the top, followed by some top draft picks who'll leave college by the end of their sophomore season and never compete for the scoring title.

College hockey is a bit weird that way, a lot of overage second tier talents and some top talent that leaves early. So you compete primarily against older, but less talented players, whereas in juniors you compete against younger, but more talented (just check the draft picks in juniors v college) players.

Vecchione scored a lot, yet the NHL talent meisters pretty much ignored him, nor was it size, while he's a little short, he's not small like Leier. Now you can come out and college and make it, see Read, but the odds are stacked against you.

His college production is proof positive of offensive ability. Yes, several top NCAA forwards struggle at next level, but Vecchione's skillset is translatable, if not projectable. He also was a highly sought-after UFA, so not sure what you're getting at regarding the NHL "talent meisters."

What I found funny, was that the Oilers NCAA summer signing is their highest ranked C. I had no clue who he was so had to ho check.

Kind of like how Caggiula was one of their top prospects the year before. He wound up having a decent impact his rookie season (though with limited playing time and injury issues), and IMO Vecchione is a better player now than Caggiula was then.

Also Taylor Leier has never shown any level of skill comparable to Vecchione. He's a very ugly player.

 

[Curufinwe]

Leier had 37 points in 48 AHL games as a 22 year old.

How many will Vecchione have as a 24 year old?

 

[Striiker]

What the hell did I just read?

 

[Curufinwe]

The Mike Vecchione fan club newsletter, I think.

 

[FatTugboatFlahr]

Vecchione doesn't have a single NHL level skill.

He doesn't do one thing that makes you say "Hey, now that is something that can help him compete."

 

[Striiker]

The Mike Vecchione fan club newsletter, I think.

I might have to borrow that "he's a very ugly player" part for Weal.

 

[FLYguy3911]

The guy that often complains that Flyers fans overhype their prospects is really going to bat for a soon to be 25 year old "prospect". Ballsy. Reading between the lines it sounds like Norm has Vecchione 2nd on his non-delusional list.

I doubt Vecchione is better than Caggiula either, but it's hard to judge because Vecchione is even older than him.