Post-Game Talk: 2017-18 Around the League Thread | Luca Sbisa, Stanley Cup Goat

[Fire Benning]

Why did Canada get stuck with the four worst managers in the sport? (Dorion, Benning, Chiarelli, Bergevin)

 

[Nuckles]

Man jimbo looks hilariously amazing if you compare them to the people in edmonton montreal and ottawa operate lmfao

No...no he doesn't. Some of us remember the things Benning has done in the past four years. And I'm sure he'll be getting a lot of attention again in the next few days.

 

[Serac]

Benning should have dumped Eriksson on Ottawa for Hoffman then flipped him to Florida. We're Florida's trade partners in the Pacific, dangit !

 

[Jyrki21]

With Chiarelli in Edmonton, Dorian in Ottawa, Bergevin in Montreal, Treliving in Calgary and Benning in Vancouver, outside of Toronto and Winnipeg its a hell of a time to be a fan of a Canadian team.

so the list is the gms of all the canadian teams except toronto and winnipeg, which both recently won the lottery and got franchise players.

and the previous leafs gm would be on the list.

there's either a common denominator related to the canadian markets that impacts gm decision making or it's an interesting coincidence.

Some of it is obviously luck/cyclical, but I don't think it's wholly coincidental. Winnipeg/Toronto were obviously buffered by lottery wins, but they are also the two franchises playing it most patiently right now and had to swallow years of losing first.

I think Canadian teams are most likely to give in to dumb stereotypes and baseless conventional thinking... the types of things that radio callers want to see (e.g. tuffness, hiring an ex-player to manage, drafting/signing the local guy, only drawing from a pool of francophones, getting excited over the name Sutter). The fans/media exert more pressure along these lines and the teams feel more compelled to respond (or have people in place more likely to feel the same way).

They also operate within added constraints – higher taxes, worse weather, falling currency, and the only sport on earth where players apparently don't want to play where fans care the most, and this no doubt has a significant impact (doubly so here in Ottawa where it's also a government town with little corporate support, and much of the middle class isn't local).

For what it's worth, while there is some overlap with the Cup drought, I think that is a bit different, and the main reason for that is that until the return of the Jets they were are all in the same two divisions (more pronounced when they were 2 of 6) so they are constantly taking points from each other or meeting each other in the playoffs.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

Some of it is obviously luck/cyclical, but I don't think it's wholly coincidental. Winnipeg/Toronto were obviously buffered by lottery wins, but they are also the two franchises playing it most patiently right now and had to swallow years of losing first.

I think Canadian teams are most likely to give in to dumb stereotypes and baseless conventional thinking... the types of things that radio callers want to see (e.g. tuffness, hiring an ex-player to manage, drafting/signing the local guy, only drawing from a pool of francophones, getting excited over the name Sutter). The fans/media exert more pressure along these lines and the teams feel more compelled to respond (or have people in place more likely to feel the same way).

They also operate within added constraints – higher taxes, worse weather, falling currency, and the only sport on earth where players apparently don't want to play where fans care the most, and this no doubt has a significant impact (doubly so here in Ottawa where it's also a government town with little corporate support, and much of the middle class isn't local).

For what it's worth, while there is some overlap with the Cup drought, I think that is a bit different, and the main reason for that is that until the return of the Jets they were are all in the same two divisions (more pronounced when they were 2 of 6) so they are constantly taking points from each other or meeting each other in the playoffs.

Exactly. While I'd say that none of these guys are anything more than average at best... the fact that people perceive the GM's of winning teams as being "good" and the GM's of losing teams to be "bad" fails to take into account a myriad of other factors. Jim Rutherford was considered an idiot when he was the GM of the abysmal Hurricanes, but a genius as soon as he took over the Pens. Ken Holland was the very model of a top notch GM as he kept the Red Wings winning for two decades and a dinosaur the moment they missed the playoffs.

That said, a below average GM can certainly make an average team bad and a bad team worse, but I don't think even Sam Pollock could keep the Senators off the rocks right now.

 

[Hit the post]

That said, a below average GM can certainly make an average team bad and a bad team worse, but I don't think even Sam Pollock could keep the Senators off the rocks right now.

Well it does go back to the owner of the Sens doesn't it? Would Sam Pollock been able to do anything with Harold Ballard as his boss?

 

[krutovsdonut]

Some of it is obviously luck/cyclical, but I don't think it's wholly coincidental. Winnipeg/Toronto were obviously buffered by lottery wins, but they are also the two franchises playing it most patiently right now and had to swallow years of losing first.

I think Canadian teams are most likely to give in to dumb stereotypes and baseless conventional thinking... the types of things that radio callers want to see (e.g. tuffness, hiring an ex-player to manage, drafting/signing the local guy, only drawing from a pool of francophones, getting excited over the name Sutter). The fans/media exert more pressure along these lines and the teams feel more compelled to respond (or have people in place more likely to feel the same way).

They also operate within added constraints – higher taxes, worse weather, falling currency, and the only sport on earth where players apparently don't want to play where fans care the most, and this no doubt has a significant impact (doubly so here in Ottawa where it's also a government town with little corporate support, and much of the middle class isn't local).

For what it's worth, while there is some overlap with the Cup drought, I think that is a bit different, and the main reason for that is that until the return of the Jets they were are all in the same two divisions (more pronounced when they were 2 of 6) so they are constantly taking points from each other or meeting each other in the playoffs.

those may be factors. i do think the management of a canadian team is part of the "cast" in the entertainment product to a greater extent than down south. they also know they are in for an intense ride from fans with every decision under a microscope. i think that impacts on recruiting and decision making.

i see the main thing as being fan interest and second guessing as impacting on a thousand decisions, causing a slightly different approach.

take the hoffman situation

-does the peace bond application even break as a story in many us markets? would there be a reporter on that beat in june with the mandate from the newspaper and sources to track it down?

-does management have more time and leeway to manage that kind of problem in a us market without a media/fanbase firestorm?

-does a us market have more leeway to "take its lumps" in that situation and either hunker down take the more valuable draft picks rather than players? leaving aside fan expectations and scrutiny, the us teams are also going to have an easier time recruiting ufas so they do not need to trade for boedkers.

i mean you look at ottawa and you see a passionate obsessive opinionated fanbase that is so fussy it does not sell out conference final games. it's the worst of both worlds.

 

[Hit the post]

i mean you look at ottawa and you see a passionate obsessive opinionated fanbase that is so fussy it does not sell out conference final games. it's the worst of both worlds.

I honestly don't know what is going on in Ottawa but I think there has to be other factors at work there. It can't be just the excuse "the arena is in an awful location" as they managed to pack the joint a few years earlier. Maybe it's a bunch of a combination of little things (eg., the phoenix payroll fiasco, owner is a ******, etc.,)?

 

[krutovsdonut]

I honestly don't know what is going on in Ottawa but I think there has to be other factors at work there. It can't be just the excuse "the arena is in an awful location" as they managed to pack the joint a few years earlier. Maybe it's a bunch of a combination of little things (eg., the phoenix payroll fiasco, owner is a ******, etc.,)?

regular season a lot of things play into ticket sales.

for a conference final game you have to assume the fanbase has a high level of ambivalence to their own team unrelated to current play. ownership is no doubt a part, but even allowing for that, there seems to be a shortage of pure unconditional sens fans in ottawa.

 

[Fire Benning]

2 first place votes for Boeser

 

[Nuckles]

2 first place votes for Boeser

I really want to know who gave Gourde a 1st place vote.

 

[Fire Benning]

I really want to know who gave Gourde a 1st place vote.

I can't wait to see how the writer who did defends them self once the votes become public.

 

[Breakers]

I really want to know who gave Gourde a 1st place vote.

Probably the same idiot who gave Zack Hyman a 1st place vote for the Selke a year ago.

 

[Fire Benning]

Selke should've gone to Bergeron.

 

[Breakers]

I am really surprised more people dont take pro experience into account with voting.
With me personally........

I wouldn't even have Gourde in like my top 6. He played like most of the year as a 26 year old on a stacked team.

 

[Melvin]

McAvoy should have won it running away.

 

[Fire Benning]

Benning was robbed for GM of the year imo.

 

[Canucks LB]

Lmfao This awards ceremony just reminded me of the Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson trade.

Hahaha what a crippling deal, you could have had hall and mcdavid together 1/2 for the next decade

 

[Josepho]

what an awful awards show, just reinforces how lame hockey personas are.

hockey culture needs a bigger overhaul than north korea.

 

[Scumbag Frank]

Lmfao This awards ceremony just reminded me of the Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson trade.

Hahaha what a crippling deal, you could have had hall and mcdavid together 1/2 for the next decade

Barzal winning the calder too, drafted with the Oilers pick from the Griffin Reinhart deal

 

[WinterEmpire]

Barzal winning the calder too, drafted with the Oilers pick from the Griffin Reinhart deal

Coulda had McDavid/Hall/Barzal

But they got Larson and waiver fodder instead

How are the Oilers constantly this incompetent

 

[VanillaCoke]

Where da heck is nuckles with the trotz update tweets!?

 

[Hollywood Burrows]

awards ballots are up: NHL awards ballots from PHWA members

Roy McGregor from the globeandmail and some guy from Arlington (??) gave Brock first place votes for the calder.

 

[timw33]

How are the Oilers constantly this incompetent

Anytime you vastly overvalue a low upside "tough" d-man with pedigree, you're going to have a very bad time. We paid Mccann (24) plus 33 for Gudbranson, Oilers traded 16 and 33 for Griffin Reinhart.

That kind of package should have landed a Hamilton/Hamonic type guy at the very least.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

awards ballots are up: NHL awards ballots from PHWA members

Roy McGregor from the globeandmail and some guy from Arlington (??) gave Brock first place votes for the calder.

and the knob who voted for hall at C is a different knob from the one who voted for kopitar at LW. a rich tapestry

also, according to this guy (who apparently doesn't know that brock boeser exists), the voters were given memos about claude giroux's position. but he gave the sedins a "statement vote."