Post-Game Talk: 2017-18 Around the League Thread | Luca Sbisa, Stanley Cup Goat

[m9]

Dorion's moves are probably not optimum and I'm certainly not about to suggest he's a good general manager, but there may be a bit of piling on here.

In his trade with the Sharks Dorion got Mikkel Boedker (a capable right winger under contract for two more seasons) and Julius Bergman (a middling defence prospect.) He gave up Hoffman (who most no doubt feel he had to trade) and defensive prospect Cody Donaghey. They also gave up a 5th round pick for a 6th round pick.

Boedker is still a competent third line winger (might be higher on the Sens) and Bergman is still a prospect with some chance of making the NHL. Donaghey is a contract dump, an ECHL player whose chances of ever making the NHL are really, really remote. So really the trade amounts, essentially, to Hoffman for Boedker and Bergman.

Normally that would look awful. In the circumstances, with the allegations against Hoffman's girlfriend and Hoffman just coming off a season in which he produced offensively but his defensive play and work ethic were cricized, Hoffman's trade value was much less than would normally be the case.

Boedker is still effective and will have salary less than his cap hit for the next two seasons. For the cash-strapped Senators that has some small value. Boedker may have more value to the Sens than he did to the Sharks. The Sens can use the lower salary (than cap hit,) they have a weaker roster and on the Sharks portion of this board, there is considerable discussion about getting enough cap space to go afher high profile free agents. I think we can all assume that not even the most ardent Senators fan would consider they'd be an entrant in the John Tavares Sweepstakes nor in the John Carlson or Ilya Kovalchuk lotteries.

If the Sharks had traded Boedker and Bergman to the Panthers for 2nd and 4th round picks, would there be much crticism of the Sharks? That's pretty close to being the choice that Dorion was facing in taking the Sharks' offer or the Panthers' offer.

It might that giving up Hoffman and a 7th for 2nd, 4th and 5th round picks (as the Sharks did) would have been better, but the Sens get some immediate help at forward to help set off the immediate effect of losing Hoffman while lowering their cap hit and their total payroll and getting a defensive prospect for a salary dump. It isn't good, but it isn't a complete loss, either.

Yes, Hoffman's value is "much less' than normal - he would usually be worth at least a 1st rounder, and because of these events he's worth a 2nd rounder +. This was proven minutes later when he was dealt for that package. The Senators received a player in Boedker that is arguably a cap dump, but at best has limited value. Sure, paying Boedker a bit less over two years is fine, but that just essentially gets him down to what he should be paid anyway.

The part I will concede to - I don't know much about Bergmen. If he's a legit prospect, that obviously helps. Nothing I've read suggests he's a high-end prospect, though.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Legitimately feeling bad for Sens fans RN.

 

[DS7]

Dorion was in quite a pickle here, so i wouldn't put that much blame on him for this specific trade.
The latter tho...thats the $700m question, is it not?

"When I'm done, half the Franchise's value will still exist."

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

"monika, i know it's you. cut it out or you're going to get your boyfriend traded again."

 

[timw33]

Months ago STL fans were thinking it would take like Jordan Kyrou ++ to get Hoffman.

Ottawa let their market stagnate by waiting too long and letting the bad locker room issues go public instead of trying to get ahead of it.

An absolute masterclass of asset management by Doug Wilson. Takes a signing that is only so-so and dumps the whole contract for a 2nd 4th 5th 5th.

San Jose now has more draft picks in this draft that Vancouver.

And Dorion is doing the same thing Benning is, wanting to get players in return instead of solid pick packages, and you end up with mediocre players and far too few picks.

 

[NoShowWilly]

Seems like a concerted effort amongst Canadian gms to make me feel better about Benning.

 

[Fire Benning]

Why couldn’t Ottawa had gotten what San Jose got for Hoffman initially? I’m so confused.

 

[NoShowWilly]

Why couldn’t Ottawa had gotten what San Jose got for Hoffman initially? I’m so confused.

Apparently Doiron doesn't even talk within his division or some crap.

 

[Jay Cee]

Lol. As if Dorion could not be made look any worse with the disappointing return he received, the player he traded got traded in his division anyway for big spoils to just for San Jose tp be the conduit of the trade.

There definitely seem to be a few GMs who can give Benning a run for his money for worst GM. Dorion, Chia and Beregevin just can't get out of their own way.

 

[Hit the post]

Lol. As if Dorion could not be made look any worse with the disappointing return he received, the player he traded got traded in his division anyway for big spoils to just for San Jose tp be the conduit of the trade.

There definitely seem to be a few GMs who can give Benning a run for his money for worst GM. Dorion, Chia and Beregevin just can't get out of their own way.

I'll give a *LITTLE* slack for Dorion given who his boss (owner) is. Have to think any decent GM would tend to stay far away from working for that guy (despite there being a limited number of jobs available for a GM position).

 

[NoShowWilly]

I'd add treliving to the list. They missed the playoffs and have no pick in the first 3 rounds. Frankly it is hilarious.

 

[krutovsdonut]

julius bergman guy better be good i guess

 

[Josepho]

Treliving has still been decent for Calgary. I'd like to think that Hamonic and Hamilton cancel eachother out.

It's always going to be hard to evaluate the abilities of an Ottawa GM while Melnyk is there but I think Dorion's asset management has been worse than Benning's so far during his body of work.

 

[krutovsdonut]

I'd add treliving to the list. They missed the playoffs and have no pick in the first 3 rounds. Frankly it is hilarious.

so the list is the gms of all the canadian teams except toronto and winnipeg, which both recently won the lottery and got franchise players.

and the previous leafs gm would be on the list.

there's either a common denominator related to the canadian markets that impacts gm decision making or it's an interesting coincidence.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Treliving has still been decent for Calgary. I'd like to think that Hamonic and Hamilton cancel eachother out.

It's always going to be hard to evaluate the abilities of an Ottawa GM while Melnyk is there but I think Dorion's asset management has been worse than Benning's so far during his body of work.

i agree that the burrows trade is hard to understand from dorion's viewpoint even with the vindication of the run they went on that year.

 

[timw33]

Why couldn’t Ottawa had gotten what San Jose got for Hoffman initially? I’m so confused.

Same reason why Benning can't get picks when people are willing to trade them—he wants players back.

 

[RandV]

Why couldn’t Ottawa had gotten what San Jose got for Hoffman initially? I’m so confused.

While it looks and is bad I'd take a guess that while most people would see him as a negative asset they probably wanted a guy like Boedker. Ottawa probably wants to get some help in replacing Hoffman's production and keep in mind they're probably not going to be able to attract any free agents so they need to take these guys where they can get them. Boedker has been disappointing in San Jose but he did score 74-15-22-37 last season, is only 28 and has two 50 point seasons under his belt. Playing on a weaker team there's a decent chance he'll jump back into that 50 point range for the next two years they have him.

 

[MS]

While it looks and is bad I'd take a guess that while most people would see him as a negative asset they probably wanted a guy like Boedker. Ottawa probably wants to get some help in replacing Hoffman's production and keep in mind they're probably not going to be able to attract any free agents so they need to take these guys where they can get them. Boedker has been disappointing in San Jose but he did score 74-15-22-37 last season, is only 28 and has two 50 point seasons under his belt. Playing on a weaker team there's a decent chance he'll jump back into that 50 point range for the next two years they have him.

Ottawa needs NHL players because they need a good finish next year for Dorion to save his job after trading away their 2019 #1 pick. If that ends up being a top-5 pick, he's done.

The deal SJ got is better but wouldn't do a thing to help Ottawa next year. Another case of bad GMs putting their own jobs before the best interests of the team.

 

[krutovsdonut]

While it looks and is bad I'd take a guess that while most people would see him as a negative asset they probably wanted a guy like Boedker. Ottawa probably wants to get some help in replacing Hoffman's production and keep in mind they're probably not going to be able to attract any free agents so they need to take these guys where they can get them. Boedker has been disappointing in San Jose but he did score 74-15-22-37 last season, is only 28 and has two 50 point seasons under his belt. Playing on a weaker team there's a decent chance he'll jump back into that 50 point range for the next two years they have him.

i agree boedker makes some sense for ottawa given they to not have a realistic option to sign any decent ufas to replace hoffman.

boedker's contract was also front loaded, so he only costs melnyk $3 million a year out of pocket for these last 2 years.

considering they signed burrows for $2.5 million last year, their expectations cannot be that high.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Ottawa needs NHL players because they need a good finish next year for Dorion to save his job after trading away their 2019 #1 pick. If that ends up being a top-5 pick, he's done.

The deal SJ got is better but wouldn't do a thing to help Ottawa next year. Another case of bad GMs putting their own jobs before the best interests of the team.

100% agree with this. Strictly getting players to be "competitive" enough to not completely shit the bed next year given the Avs have their 2019 1st.

It's why I'd now be shocked if Karlsson is traded at the draft. Ottawa will likley hold onto him as long as they can in the hopes of being more competitive and potentially re-signing him. However, I would expect him to be dealt at the TDL if no contract extension and shit goes sideways.

They went on a lucky run, thought they were better than they were and went all in with Duchene. They didn't properly take a step back and realize they actually weren't that good but who knows how much Melnyk interfered as well.

Just a shit show in Ottawa right now. Battle between them and Montreal right now as to who can f*** things up more.

 

[M2Beezy]

Holy ****. San Jose just made them look like complete fools.

Meanwhile the Sharks managed to get a 2nd, 4th, and two 5ths for Boedker's contract, a 6th, and a 7th. Draft picks are like gold.

Whaaaaaa???????? Phaneuffff???

 

[Foundational Player]

Seems like a concerted effort amongst Canadian gms to make me feel better about Benning.

With Chiarelli in Edmonton, Dorian in Ottawa, Bergevin in Montreal, Treliving in Calgary and Benning in Vancouver, outside of Toronto and Winnipeg its a hell of a time to be a fan of a Canadian team.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Dorion and Bergevin: your move, Benning. Your move.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Wow, Wilson pulled off some magic here.

Probably in the top 5 of GM's in the league..the guy seems to consistently pull the rabbit out of the hat.

 

[Canucks LB]

Man jimbo looks hilariously amazing if you compare them to the people in edmonton montreal and ottawa operate lmfao