Pre-Game Talk: 2016 World Cup of Hockey

[SixGoalieSystem]

This isn't 50 years ago. The national team isn't the only way to grow the game. The Internet is widespread now. Anyone can purchase game center and watch streams of the games from all over the world. It's easier to follow a sport now from anywhere than ever before.

I think it's ridiculous to think owners should send their investments overseas for two weeks and take a huge risk that they harm their product. Very few businesses would take that sort of chance.and hockey actually does that MORE than almost any American sport. You have junior players going to the world juniors. You have professionals going to the world championships every year (sometimes just a day or two after being eliminated). You don't see that in NFL at all. You don't see that in baseball at all other than young players going to the Arizona fall league or the WBC every 4 years.'

What it comes down to is your arguing ownership and the league should have even more of a long term vision with regards to the Olympics and national participation to (further) increase interest in less known hockey countries. The main problem with this is you won't see any results from it for 20+ years by which team a large percentage of people involved with the league won't be in the league anymore so you are saying they should place a greater emphasis on growing the game for the future that they likely won't be involved in rather than worrying about the teams that they are currently working for/owning. Very very few people have this outlook and most people look out for themselves and try to increase profits as much as they can now (this is especially true for owners of teams who have mostly all made their own large fortunes)

Maybe they should consider it payback for the hours and hours and millions of dollars the local federations put into development of these owner's "investments". Teams and leagues are payed little or no compensation when sending a player to the NHL, even if it means losing an attraction from the club, league and the national team.

When the best players can't even be made available for a tournament every four years, you are stuck watching second (or in Norway's case often third) rate players in the national league, or as some of us idiots do, spend your nights watching the best play in the NHL.

For hockey-interested adults that's fine, but it's no way to get kids into the game, and it's no way to get those semi-interested to elevate their level of commitment.

 

[Ori]

Yeah, I agree with @Chimp - sport should be all about entertainment. And when it cost too much to lose, or adjust tactics in-game to defend a lead - it get less entertaining in my opinion.
And that`s why most buy tickets in MSG or anywhere else in NHL - to have a great evening with family - and while others travel the world by air to visit MSG to watch a hockey game and have a great experience which u will remember for a life time.

So it`s important that hockey org. think about that entertaining aspect, and less about the buisness part of it, but it`s impossible to avoid it completely in sports though.

 

[Ori]

This is my take...I don't care who wins, just don't have any NYR players get hurt. I remember flipping out when Jagr was hurt in that Olympics and then later, Zucc hurt his hand.

Yeah, I understand that feeling, but you`ve injuries in NHL games too - I don`t see the difference if a player get injured in World cup, olympics, or in playoffs matches.

There are many star players who can`t participate Euro 2016 in France due to injuries for instance, but no top soccer clubs in Europe like Real Madrid or Manchester City denies their top players to participate in Euro 2016 to play for their country.

So I think and hope the NHL clubs share similar vision to let their players play in Olympics though.

 

[shutty]

Anybody know what they are going to do with the end of game anthem for Team NA and Europe?

 

[Holocene]

Will you be angry if Lundqvist tears his ACL in it and is out for 8 months? Or it will still just be a fun little game?

We have a 1st this year so I wouldn't care

 

[Tawnos]

Yeah, I understand that feeling, but you`ve injuries in NHL games too - I don`t see the difference if a player get injured in World cup, olympics, or in playoffs matches.

There are many star players who can`t participate Euro 2016 in France due to injuries for instance, but no top soccer clubs in Europe like Real Madrid or Manchester City denies their top players to participate in Euro 2016 to play for their country.

So I think and hope the NHL clubs share similar vision to let their players play in Olympics though.

Plus, in comparison to the Olympcis, it's much better if a player gets injured in the World Cup. My biggest problem with the Olympics is that it happens right at the beginning of the stretch run. An injury then could devastate a teams chances. An injury in September is much less likely to.

 

[Ori]

Plus, in comparison to the Olympcis, it's much better if a player gets injured in the World Cup. My biggest problem with the Olympics is that it happens right at the beginning of the stretch run. An injury then could devastate a teams chances. An injury in September is much less likely to.

yeah true that.

 

[kovazub94]

Fans are putting wrong elements on a fulcrum in taking sides re. players participation in Olympics. It should not be (mostly) Euro fans against NHL owners.

Remember, the owners want compensation from MOK (or whatever is the title of the organization that governs Olympic games). MOK is as corrupt, if not more, as FIFA and historically has never been responsible for costs associated with athletes injuries occurred during Olympic games. Is it fair? More fair than putting the burden for these costs onto NHL owners with respect to hockey players?

 

[cwede]

Fans are putting wrong elements on a fulcrum in taking sides re. players participation in Olympics. It should not be (mostly) Euro fans against NHL owners.

Remember, the owners want compensation from MOK (or whatever is the title of the organization that governs Olympic games). MOK is as corrupt, if not more, as FIFA and historically has never been responsible for costs associated with athletes injuries occurred during Olympic games. Is it fair? More fair than putting the burden for these costs onto NHL owners with respect to hockey players?

to clarify this, the financial commitment NHL is making an issue ,about from the IOC, is just the same coverage (I believe it is travel and insurance) that IOC has paid for each Olympics since the NHL players began playing, but now IOC says it won't pay

but i also believe the NHL isn't interested in fighting too hard for Olympics played in non-hockey regions on the far side of the world - which could include not only '18 in Seoul but also '22 in Beijing

 

[Chimpradamus]

Anybody know what they are going to do with the end of game anthem for Team NA and Europe?

It'll probably be something like this.

Fans are putting wrong elements on a fulcrum in taking sides re. players participation in Olympics. It should not be (mostly) Euro fans against NHL owners.

Remember, the owners want compensation from MOK (or whatever is the title of the organization that governs Olympic games). MOK is as corrupt, if not more, as FIFA and historically has never been responsible for costs associated with athletes injuries occurred during Olympic games. Is it fair? More fair than putting the burden for these costs onto NHL owners with respect to hockey players?

Sure, they're probably corrupt to the bone. Just as any other big business today. Guess why the NHL doesn't bring this up as an issue? Because they're also a big business.

Giving financial compensation because of injuries in international competition is kind of ridiculous. What if a NHL player is injured slicing bread? Should the knife company give millions in compensation? Or should there just be a general acceptance you can cut yourself with a knife? What if an opposing team injures a star player on a dirty play in an NHL game? Should the other franchise compensate? Soccer players, worth more than an NHL team combined can get injured in big international tournaments - or even qualifiers. Injuries are part of the game.

Like already mentioned, other hockey leagues are vacuumed of even remote talent nowadays and the clubs get coffee money for it, money that's not even going to pay for a replacement, if there even is one. And the NHL can't even accept the players they poach to give something back to their country and represent the national team.

So they drain the other leagues of quality and essentially give them a worse and worse product on the ice, shuts down the national team... what's left? Should we just declare the rest of the hockey world a huge farm for NHL business owners and stick a fork in hockey as a sport, long term? And while I agree IOK and the international hockey federation are corrupt idiots, I'm not so sure anything would matter when it comes to making the NHL give anything back that they can't grab, that isn't nailed down.

So fine, NHL doesn't want to let their "investments" play in international competition. Then they can at the very least pay market value for their "investments" instead of stealing them while holding a gun to the head of other leagues. "Either you get coffee money or you get nothing." NICE. That's how criminals work.

 

[Thirty One]

Whenever a hockey player steps on the ice, there's a risk of injury. That's why team's shouldn't practice and draft picks should be held out of play until they're ready for the NHL.

 

[jniklast]

Yeah, the problem long-term for hockey is that there is nothing flowing back from the NHL to the leagues in other countries. Whether it be players for the national team or compensation for the players that go to the NHL (which us laughable right now). How are those countries supposed to finance talent development with 2nd rate leagues an less and less stars on display? In the long term there will be fewer and fewer countries where hockey is one of the most popular sports and thus fewer countries producing talent consistently.

 

[kovazub94]

Chimp, you keep referring to the transfer fee as a coffee money. I might be wrong but isn't it $350K while average hockey players salaries in these leagues under $50K?

 

[JanErixon20]

Yeah, I understand that feeling, but you`ve injuries in NHL games too - I don`t see the difference if a player get injured in World cup, olympics, or in playoffs matches.

There are many star players who can`t participate Euro 2016 in France due to injuries for instance, but no top soccer clubs in Europe like Real Madrid or Manchester City denies their top players to participate in Euro 2016 to play for their country.

So I think and hope the NHL clubs share similar vision to let their players play in Olympics though.

I can stomach it more if they get hurt playing for the Rangers. Having a guy tear a knee playing for Team North America is a lot worse. It didn't have to happen. Like Sandstrom breaking a leg, I believe, playing in the NHL/USSR '87 Rendez-vous tournament.

 

[JanErixon20]

Plus, in comparison to the Olympcis, it's much better if a player gets injured in the World Cup. My biggest problem with the Olympics is that it happens right at the beginning of the stretch run. An injury then could devastate a teams chances. An injury in September is much less likely to.

If a guy like Lundqvist or Tavares have a major injury in September, there probably won't be a stretch run to worry about anyway.

 

[Fitzy]

They will be able to fill out a full 8 team competitive tournament in future when Quebec is its own country

That said, teams like Iran and North Korea have played in the FIFA world cup. Would it really be so bad if lesser hockey powers got beaten up on?

 

[JanErixon20]

They will be able to fill out a full 8 team competitive tournament in future when Quebec is its own country

That said, teams like Iran and North Korea have played in the FIFA world cup. Would it really be so bad if lesser hockey powers got beaten up on?

Does anyone want to see Canada beat South Korea 15-0?

 

[Fitzy]

Does anyone want to see Canada beat South Korea 15-0?

Over 12 million people watched Portugal beat North Korea 7-0 in 2010.

 

[cwede]

They will be able to fill out a full 8 team competitive tournament in future when Quebec is its own country
That said, teams like Iran and North Korea have played in the FIFA world cup. Would it really be so bad if lesser hockey powers got beaten up on?

to me that misses the point.
The could have included Slovak, Swiss, German, or Austrian teams this time around.

I prefer that guys like Zucc and Kopitar get to play.

I don't buy the idea that some kind of strict country-based model is so essential to having the tournament.

I think their acknowledgement, that the country based model was less effective after the top 6, is smart, and responsible, and the better idea for this event, which is highlighting NHL and NHL players

And believe me, I hardly ever agree with NHL management

 

[Chimpradamus]

Chimp, you keep referring to the transfer fee as a coffee money. I might be wrong but isn't it $350K while average hockey players salaries in these leagues under $50K?

Why do you compare with average salaries? Is it bottom liners who are poached to the NHL? No, it's always and always will be the absolute cream of talent of other hockey leagues, mostly from league winners who can see half their rosters vanish after a league win - and not because of financial reasons of their own (within reasonable limits of the country). The reason the leagues cannot pay high salaries is they cannot attract more sponsorship and more audience. Do you think it's an easier job whenever you get an elite talent, he is drafted to the NHL and leaves whenever he has a big season? And remember, that is a one time sum. How do you replace a player like Peter Forsberg? With a player like Lubos Bartecko? You cannot. Albeit Bartecko is paid a lower sum of salary, he's never going to be the attraction of the player that was poached by the draft.

This isn't the NHL or EHCL. One really bad season and you can be demoted to a lower division, with catastrophic financial results and a big flight of the pool of skilled players you once had. It can take years to get back to the elite division, if you even get there. The latest figure I heard was $225k for a star player from SEL and that is only because of the threat of the KHL. If NHL would've held their imperialistic monopololy, the numbers would've been half of that.

And as you mentioned about "keep referring", yes, you are right, that's not the biggest issue: of course only a part of the equation of diminishing other hockey leagues. When you also neuter the national team, you greatly diminish the encouragement of kids to start playing hockey. Growing the sport in non-hockey countries is only a small part of the equation. Preserving the growth of the sport in mostly European countries holds GREAT strength to the national team, because those games are followed by the media and are televised. The NHL are greatly ignorant of this or don't care whatsoever. Sadly, I think it's the later one. Even two weeks every 4th year was too much to even preserve the sport long term. Jesus ****ing christ.

Kids don't watch the NHL and never will watch the NHL, as kids are not awake in the middle of the night. Adult students - like I was - or unemployed will never be elite hockey players, we played other sports or already quit any professional career. It's as simple as that.

Niklas Lidström was basically an unknown player in Sweden for huge parts of his career, a top 5 NHL defenseman of all time and we're even talking of the main sports media here. Guess why? He almost never had the chance to play for the national team. Reflect on that for a moment.

Not until Lidström was part of the 2006 olympics gold medal for Sweden, was he held in any big regard back in Sweden. If Lidström wouldn't have played great winning the 2006 gold medal, he would've been a "great player" post mortem by default because of all the praise from the NHL. You get the picture now of how important it is to preserve international competition if you want hockey to survive as a sport in Europe? One of the greatest defensemen to ever play the game was inches away from basically being unknown in the hockey country he came from.

What would it mean to Canadian hockey if their fans barely knew of the greatness of Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux or Roy? Do you now grasp the impact of the NHL refusing the participation of international players representing the national team of other countries? That's why the business of the NHL is a huge detriment to hockey surviving as an international sport. What idols are left for Swedish kids to cheer on to become hockey stars? Durr Durrson? Yeah, I think they're preferring Zlatan Ibrahimovic instead - who played for the national soccer team his entire career and scored GREAT goals to add to that. **** the NHL and their quarter-like business suicide. And yeah, **** the IOC and the IIHF as well. They're all slowly killing the sport. Heck, Swedish kids would almost have held HeatoN as a bigger star than Lidström.

 

[kovazub94]

You got to take it easy man or you will wind up with a heart attack, god forbid.

First of all, I grew up in a different country and at a different time but I couldn't get enough news and updates to know how Russian players performed in NHL on any given night. It was and still is a source of pride for me to see them among the best in the best hockey league. These days there are thousands of daily pages in Russian media that follow NHL in great detail.

Second, the relation between compensation and league salary is important since we are talking (imperialistic lol) economics here. Quite a few players don't make it in the NHL and come back to play in Europe. Do you see NHL owners asking for a refund?

Finally, I'm glad you brought up soccer. Isn't it the same and the minimal few good Swedes do play in England, Germany or Italy, most of the clubs that developed them receiving compensation that is also quite small compared to what it can be just a year or two after the transfer? What's the difference?

 

[jniklast]

There are a few differences to soccer.

First of all there's the timezone issue which obviously is outside of the control of the NHL. That makes it a lot easier to follow the Champions League than the NHL.

And then in soccer you see the national team with all the best players for a couple of games almost every other month. Plus a four week best on best tournament every even year. That's a lot of exposure for the general public and a lot of reasons for kids to idolize the best soccer players of their country.

Regarding the compensation, at least in soccer it's more or less fair market value as the fee is negotiated freely for every transfer and not in advance with a huge league having all the power. And thus players like Ibrahimovic returned a fee of around $8 million dollars in 2004 for Malmö (and in today's market the number would easily be double that).
And then there's solidarity payments which are a fixed 5% of every transfer sum for a player, which get distributed amongst all clubs that developed the player until he was 21 years old. It's not perfect, but at least something and for small clubs that money can be sizeable sums.

 

[JanErixon20]

Over 12 million people watched Portugal beat North Korea 7-0 in 2010.

That's fine. I'm sure the game still was awful.