Pre-Game Talk: 2016 World Cup of Hockey

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Meh, soccer isn't the biggest sport in the world due to letting stars play in international games.

It is the biggest sport in the world because its rules are incredibly simple and it requires a ball to get started. Maybe 4 rocks to mark off goals.

Exactly. All you need is a ball and 4 random items to create the goals. When I was little, I played in a park that had 2 trees. We then used our jackets to represent the other post. So easy

 

[jniklast]

Meh, soccer isn't the biggest sport in the world due to letting stars play in international games.

It is the biggest sport in the world because its rules are incredibly simple and it requires a ball to get started. Maybe 4 rocks to mark off goals.

I know that soccer would be a lot less popular to the general public in Germany if there was no national team with the best players. The resurgence of the national team since 2006 has helped soccer grow even more popular here.

And historically it's the World Cups and European Championships that have defined the identity of soccer in Germany. Everybody (and not only soccer fans) knows the stories about the 1954 win, while only die-hard fans care long about past Bundesliga or Champions League seasons.

 

[KingWantsCup]

The fact that there is a team USA, a team Canada.... and a team North America... that is so dumb. I can't even wrap my head around that. Give me the Olympics over this garbage any day.

 

[cwede]

The fact that there is a team USA, a team Canada.... and a team North America.

well IMHO i think the Young Stars is a great idea,
the league has so many players who are very good very quickly

if having 3 teams meant the rosters were thin, that would be a concern

but look what happened,
even with the 3 teams, there are half dozen really qualified players left off each team

for the Olympics, young guys gotta 'wait their turn', but here they get to play,
and they will be really motivated to prove themselves

the Team Europe may be a clumsy idea, but it gets stars from smaller hockey countries (Zucc, Kopitar) into the tourney along with guys from 2d tier hockey countries like Slovaks, Swiss, Denmark, Austria, Germany and all those former pieces of USSR.

it will be fun to watch, don't take it too seriously

 

[Chimpradamus]

I know that soccer would be a lot less popular to the general public in Germany if there was no national team with the best players. The resurgence of the national team since 2006 has helped soccer grow even more popular here.

And historically it's the World Cups and European Championships that have defined the identity of soccer in Germany. Everybody (and not only soccer fans) knows the stories about the 1954 win, while only die-hard fans care long about past Bundesliga or Champions League seasons.

Yup. International success by the national team grows the interest for a sport in a big way. Sure, anyone can play soccer. But how many want to become a world class player - and actually stick to it? For that, you need idols and players that show it's possible, to nurture that dream. It's always been like that. When a national team shows great success, the small clubs see an explosion in the number of kids that want to join.

Swedish kids in hockey don't follow the NHL. They have the national team and SEL - where all the stars have been sucked out before they even become one. The national team doesn't exactly inspire greatness when all NHL stars decline quicker than they can pick up the phone.

As for the Young Guns and Team Europe: those two teams ruin the whole tournament. I actually hope one of them is going to win the whole thing to cement the legacy of this Mickey Mouse tournament.

 

[SA16]

They don't ruin the tournament. In fact you cannot have a tournament without them as any tournament without 2^x teams requires very odd structure. If you didn't have them you would just have two very weak teams replacing them causing more uncompetitive games and making a lot of players ineligible to play. You'd rather see Canada play Switzerland or Slovakia? The team Europe team is probably the weakest as it is.

 

[cwede]

I think folks who overreact to team Europe and young stars are not understanding what this event is.
This is not the Olympics or World Championships. Its much more similar to the NHL All Star game, than either of those genuinely international and country-driven events.
It's an event by the NHL and NHL players for the NHL and NHL players. To showcase the NHL game and NHL star players.
I much happier to see Kopitar and Zucc and Josi and Hossa together than bottom 6 Slovak and Swiss (German, Austrian, Danish) forwards.
And including the young guys like McKinnon and Monahan, Jones and Murray with CMcD and Eichel and Jt, to me, is cool. They would have been bumped by older guys from USA/Canada teams, but they are among the most skilled effective players in the laugue.
I also think both those teams will be very motivated to win, moreso than typical exhibition situations.
You dont like the idea, dont watch.
I haven't watched AllStar weekend including the game, in years. I find it boring.

But i will watch this. The prior Canada Cup and World Cup events produced lots of fun and memorable hockey.
I expect this to be a really good time.

 

[IwanttomoveoutWest*]

Olympics are better. **** this tournament.

 

[SA16]

I don't get why people get so angry about this. If you're not interested in it and don't like the concept just don't watch it.

 

[Chimpradamus]

I don't get why people get so angry about this. If you're not interested in it and don't like the concept just don't watch it.

Why we get so angry? Because this Mickey Mouse tournament is the only chance international hockey fans will have to watch the actual national team play. A glorified All-Star event that pisses on everything international competition is about. Why even have national teams in the first place, if it's just all about displaying the best NHL players? Why not team Goofy, team Mickey, team Donald and team Uncle Scrooge? That way they'll get a nice sponsorship from Disney as well.

How would American and Canadian hockey fans feel if all their best players played in Russia, where they played basically all the games in the middle of the night and the only chance you have to watch them play together on the national team, was in a KHL circus show? And you're supposed to be glad they even do that like once in a blue moon?

Like I said, if the NHL cannot accept to shut down the league for 2 weeks - while not missing any actual games, they still play those damn 82 games - every 4th year... JESUS CHRIST how cheap they are.

So what you should basically ask is, why do you even follow hockey? Sometimes I ask myself that question. And the answer is, I follow the NHL alot less now than before. The NHL is doing its best to kill hockey in every way they can, for short term profit, because it's a business, not a sport in their eyes.

 

[NYRKindms]

Why we get so angry? Because this Mickey Mouse tournament is the only chance international hockey fans will have to watch the actual national team play. A glorified All-Star event that pisses on everything international competition is about. Why even have national teams in the first place, if it's just all about displaying the best NHL players? Why not team Goofy, team Mickey, team Donald and team Uncle Scrooge? That way they'll get a nice sponsorship from Disney as well.

How would American and Canadian hockey fans feel if all their best players played in Russia, where they played basically all the games in the middle of the night and the only chance you have to watch them play together on the national team, was in a KHL circus show? And you're supposed to be glad they even do that like once in a blue moon?

Like I said, if the NHL cannot accept to shut down the league for 2 weeks - while not missing any actual games, they still play those damn 82 games - every 4th year... JESUS CHRIST how cheap they are.

So what you should basically ask is, why do you even follow hockey? Sometimes I ask myself that question. And the answer is, I follow the NHL alot less now than before. The NHL is doing its best to kill hockey in every way they can, for short term profit, because it's a business, not a sport in their eyes.

So teams who pay players garuanteed money, hurt or not should be completely fine with stopping their product for 2 weeks or so in the middle of their season to accommodate international organizations who have accept none of the risk and all of the profit ?

You know how we solve this problem ? We go back to the way the olympics used to be. NO PROS which is why this was never an issue before and the olympics was actually about the best amateur athletes.

The olympics is dumb and the only people who seem to care about them are Europeans. Which is odd since the "sports" that get allowed in these days are laughable

 

[jniklast]

So teams who pay players garuanteed money, hurt or not should be completely fine with stopping their product for 2 weeks or so in the middle of their season to accommodate international organizations who have accept none of the risk and all of the profit ?

You know how we solve this problem ? We go back to the way the olympics used to be. NO PROS which is why this was never an issue before and the olympics was actually about the best amateur athletes.

The olympics is dumb and the only people who seem to care about them are Europeans. Which is odd since the "sports" that get allowed in these days are laughable

That's pretty much the attitude that Chimp criticises. Everything is aimed towards short term profit.

How do you expect the sport to grow? With amateurs at the Olympics? A World Cup with Team Mickey Mouse?

I think by now soccer has passed or is very close to ice hockey in Sweden regarding popularity. And that is with Swedish club football not being competitive at all. But at least they see their national team play against the best with the best players (imagine how much more interesting Ibrahimovic makes that team alone) and if the Olympics are downgraded, there will be less interest in ice hockey for the general public.

 

[cwede]

Why we get so angry? Because this Mickey Mouse tournament is the only chance international hockey fans will have to watch the actual national team play.

This is where the argument fails.
This event is NOT about watching "the actual national team play"

Its an NHL promtional event for benefit of NHL and NHL Players.

Its not about the National teams of any country.
Its about promoting the NHL by showcasing the NHL players, in different combinations from the regular season, with some bragging rights and jingoism spicing it up

Maybe you want it to be something else.
Maybe it 'should' be something else

But it is just an NHL driven event
That ONLY occurs because NHL decided to make it happen.

The World Championships happen every spring.
Thats your opportunity for 'pure' National team competition

World Cup is an NHL event for benefit of NHL and NHL players.
Just because it doesnt have NHL in its name, doesnt mean it is any thing other than an NHL focused event..
Major League Baseball calls its championship the World Series. There is nothing 'World' about it. Its just a selfserving overstated name.
Just like the NHL's "World Cup of Hockey"

 

[The Gloaming]

Amateur Olympics is the dumbest **** ever. The Olympics are supposed to showcase the best of the best in every sport. The best athletes in the world gather to compete against each other. I don't want to watch some college kids be killed by a KHL squad and pretend to be happy with that. The NHL can shut down for two weeks every four years. Jimmy Dolan and his owner friends aren't losing any sleep about those profits (which they make anyway).

 

[The Gloaming]

[/U][/I][/B]

This is where the argument fails.
This event is NOT about watching "the actual national team play"

Its an NHL promtional event for benefit of NHL and NHL Players.

Its not about the National teams of any country.
Its about promoting the NHL by showcasing the NHL players, in different combinations from the regular season, with some bragging rights and jingoism spicing it up

Maybe you want it to be something else.
Maybe it 'should' be something else

But it is just an NHL driven event
That ONLY occurs because NHL decided to make it happen.

The World Championships happen every spring.
Thats your opportunity for 'pure' National team competition

World Cup is an NHL event for benefit of NHL and NHL players.
Just because it doesnt have NHL in its name, doesnt mean it is any thing other than an NHL focused event..
Major League Baseball calls its championship the World Series. There is nothing 'World' about it. Its just a selfserving overstated name.
Just like the NHL's "World Cup of Hockey"

An international tournament that happens during the NHL playoffs will never be a best on best.

 

[cwede]

An international tournament that happens during the NHL playoffs will never be a best on best.

I agree with that. Especially the way the US picks its Worlds' teams each spring.

So the NHL's World Cup may be the closest to 'best vs best' you'll get in a non -Olympic ( or Olympics without NHL) year.

Since NHL may not fight hard to have NHL players at Winter Olympics in nonhockey areas, in Seoul'18 or even Beijing '22, World Cup '16 & '20 & '24 may best you'll get until '26

 

[SA16]

This isn't 50 years ago. The national team isn't the only way to grow the game. The Internet is widespread now. Anyone can purchase game center and watch streams of the games from all over the world. It's easier to follow a sport now from anywhere than ever before.

I think it's ridiculous to think owners should send their investments overseas for two weeks and take a huge risk that they harm their product. Very few businesses would take that sort of chance.and hockey actually does that MORE than almost any American sport. You have junior players going to the world juniors. You have professionals going to the world championships every year (sometimes just a day or two after being eliminated). You don't see that in NFL at all. You don't see that in baseball at all other than young players going to the Arizona fall league or the WBC every 4 years.'

What it comes down to is your arguing ownership and the league should have even more of a long term vision with regards to the Olympics and national participation to (further) increase interest in less known hockey countries. The main problem with this is you won't see any results from it for 20+ years by which team a large percentage of people involved with the league won't be in the league anymore so you are saying they should place a greater emphasis on growing the game for the future that they likely won't be involved in rather than worrying about the teams that they are currently working for/owning. Very very few people have this outlook and most people look out for themselves and try to increase profits as much as they can now (this is especially true for owners of teams who have mostly all made their own large fortunes)

 

[jniklast]

This isn't 50 years ago. The national team isn't the only way to grow the game. The Internet is widespread now. Anyone can purchase game center and watch streams of the games from all over the world. It's easier to follow a sport now from anywhere than ever before.

I think it's ridiculous to think owners should send their investments overseas for two weeks and take a huge risk that they harm their product. Very few businesses would take that sort of chance.and hockey actually does that MORE than almost any American sport. You have junior players going to the world juniors. You have professionals going to the world championships every year (sometimes just a day or two after being eliminated). You don't see that in NFL at all. You don't see that in baseball at all other than young players going to the Arizona fall league or the WBC every 4 years.'

What it comes down to is your arguing ownership and the league should have even more of a long term vision with regards to the Olympics and national participation to (further) increase interest in less known hockey countries. The main problem with this is you won't see any results from it for 20+ years by which team a large percentage of people involved with the league won't be in the league anymore so you are saying they should place a greater emphasis on growing the game for the future that they likely won't be involved in rather than worrying about the teams that they are currently working for/owning. Very very few people have this outlook and most people look out for themselves and try to increase profits as much as they can now (this is especially true for owners of teams who have mostly all made their own large fortunes)

That's exactly the problem. Everybody involved only cares about the business now, not about the sport in the future.

So why is it different in soccer? Not because of the clubs, because they have a very similiar perspective. It's because of strong national and international associations. However corrupt FIFA and all the others are, they actually care about growing the sport in their respective region. The national associations want success and for that they need talent to come up, so they want to grow the game overall, not only the single clubs.

Unfortunately the NHL is so much stronger than any national or international association, that things won't change, but you can hardly argue against the success of international play in soccer.

 

[The Gloaming]

This isn't 50 years ago. The national team isn't the only way to grow the game. The Internet is widespread now. Anyone can purchase game center and watch streams of the games from all over the world. It's easier to follow a sport now from anywhere than ever before.

I think it's ridiculous to think owners should send their investments overseas for two weeks and take a huge risk that they harm their product. Very few businesses would take that sort of chance.and hockey actually does that MORE than almost any American sport. You have junior players going to the world juniors. You have professionals going to the world championships every year (sometimes just a day or two after being eliminated). You don't see that in NFL at all. You don't see that in baseball at all other than young players going to the Arizona fall league or the WBC every 4 years.'

What it comes down to is your arguing ownership and the league should have even more of a long term vision with regards to the Olympics and national participation to (further) increase interest in less known hockey countries. The main problem with this is you won't see any results from it for 20+ years by which team a large percentage of people involved with the league won't be in the league anymore so you are saying they should place a greater emphasis on growing the game for the future that they likely won't be involved in rather than worrying about the teams that they are currently working for/owning. Very very few people have this outlook and most people look out for themselves and try to increase profits as much as they can now (this is especially true for owners of teams who have mostly all made their own large fortunes)

You don't see that in the NFL or NBA or MLB because those are all American sports for the most part. Hockey is the only sport out of the big 4 that's truly international. Canada, US, Sweden, Russia, Finland, Czech Republic, Switzerland. That is a lot more work international talent than any other big 4 league.

 

[Holocene]

I don't get why people get so angry about this. If you're not interested in it and don't like the concept just don't watch it.

I don't get it either... I will accept and be excited about hockey in all forms. This seems like a pretty fun format that is not supposed to be taken as seriously as the olympics. Don't get why people are so angry.

 

[SA16]

That's exactly the problem. Everybody involved only cares about the business now, not about the sport in the future.

So why is it different in soccer? Not because of the clubs, because they have a very similiar perspective. It's because of strong national and international associations. However corrupt FIFA and all the others are, they actually care about growing the sport in their respective region. The national associations want success and for that they need talent to come up, so they want to grow the game overall, not only the single clubs.

Unfortunately the NHL is so much stronger than any national or international association, that things won't change, but you can hardly argue against the success of international play in soccer.

I think part of the difference in soccer is that there are way more competitive teams. You cant't host a huge tournament in hockey. There's 6 countries that can realistically compete and then everyone else will get blown out (With slight competitiveness to Slovakia and Switzerland). Nobody wants to watch Canada destroy Italy or something. And a major part of the reason for that is, as already said, soccer is incredibly cheap to play and anyone can play it but to play hockey (on ice) requires a lot of money and maintenance to make happen. No matter how much you expose the sport a poor country will never become competitive.

Not sure if it's true that hockey is more international than baseball (excluding Canada). Both sports are 75% North American.

 

[jniklast]

I think part of the difference in soccer is that there are way more competitive teams. You cant't host a huge tournament in hockey. There's 6 countries that can realistically compete and then everyone else will get blown out (With slight competitiveness to Slovakia and Switzerland). Nobody wants to watch Canada destroy Italy or something. And a major part of the reason for that is, as already said, soccer is incredibly cheap to play and anyone can play it but to play hockey (on ice) requires a lot of money and maintenance to make happen. No matter how much you expose the sport a poor country will never become competitive.

Not sure if it's true that hockey is more international than baseball (excluding Canada). Both sports are 75% North American.

Sure, hockey will obviously never surpass soccer, simply because it requires ice. But that's not really the point. The point is, that the international tournaments definitely grow the game of soccer and that similiarly international tournaments could grow the game of hockey - albeit in fewer places. Nobody wants a 32 team World Cup in hockey but to at least keep the Olympics a best of the best.

 

[Chimpradamus]

... I think it's ridiculous to think owners should send their investments overseas for two weeks and take a huge risk that they harm their product. Very few businesses would take that sort of chance.and hockey actually does that MORE than almost any American sport. You have junior players going to the world juniors. You have professionals going to the world championships every year (sometimes just a day or two after being eliminated). You don't see that in NFL at all. You don't see that in baseball at all other than young players going to the Arizona fall league or the WBC every 4 years.'...

Why do you even call the players "investments"? It's hockey players under contract to play professional hockey. Building houses is an investment. Or should they be branded with bar codes when they sign a contract with the devil? But, even if we should be as cold as calling the players "investments", it's not about the "investments". If if was, the NHL wouldn't play 82 games + playoffs every season. 82 games is a ridiculous amount of hockey games.

It's all about the pockets of the owners, then you can try to rationalize it however you want. You say it's about the worry of injuries, because the owners have claimed that's the reason. What if they're lying through their teeth, because telling the truth: they don't want to send "their investments" to the olympics, because they're not getting paid, doesn't sound so swell in PR. And as traditional psychopath business owners, they can't have that.

It's only in "business is all and **** you all" America that taking breaks - for the sake of the sport - for national competition becomes a huge issue. And where fans are even defending the owners for this behaviour. And ignore all the lockouts and all the other incompetent behaviour. Talk about the Stockholm syndrome. Why did the NHL have to "make business" on hockey? Couldn't they have sold screw drivers or plane engines instead?

... What it comes down to is your arguing ownership and the league should have even more of a long term vision with regards to the Olympics and national participation to (further) increase interest in less known hockey countries. The main problem with this is you won't see any results from it for 20+ years by which team a large percentage of people involved with the league won't be in the league anymore so you are saying they should place a greater emphasis on growing the game for the future that they likely won't be involved in rather than worrying about the teams that they are currently working for/owning. Very very few people have this outlook and most people look out for themselves and try to increase profits as much as they can now (this is especially true for owners of teams who have mostly all made their own large fortunes)...

Of course not! If you're a psychopath business owner, why would you care about anything but your own profit, if nobody forces you? They barely care about the next year for Christ's sake! And these are the kind of people in charge, not only in hockey, but as a society? And you're fine with it? That's why I HATE the NHL. It's not a hockey league, it's a big, bad business that regrettably started to invest and capitalize on world hockey with imperialistic methods.

 

[FLYLine27*]

I don't get it either... I will accept and be excited about hockey in all forms. This seems like a pretty fun format that is not supposed to be taken as seriously as the olympics. Don't get why people are so angry.

Will you be angry if Lundqvist tears his ACL in it and is out for 8 months? Or it will still just be a fun little game?

 

[JanErixon20]

Will you be angry if Lundqvist tears his ACL in it and is out for 8 months? Or it will still just be a fun little game?

This is my take...I don't care who wins, just don't have any NYR players get hurt. I remember flipping out when Jagr was hurt in that Olympics and then later, Zucc hurt his hand.