Prospect Info: 2016 Ranking #2

[tigervixxxen]

Meloche is a strong two way player, his offense is already there. He can move the puck, has a great shot and can score goals.

 

[Zolik37]

Bigras for me, he is more proven than Jost even though he might not have as high potential. Last season Bigras did well when he was up with the A-team and from what I saw he has the potential to be a solid 2nd pairing dman maybe even better and God knows how much we need him or Zadorov to pan out.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

These rankings will always differ quite a bit in the fan base not only due to how different we see each player but mainly because some rank them using potential as the main criteria while others use NHL readiness. Is it the best prospect at this moment or once at their peak? We always have this problem when doing these. I usually try to use both but I tend to put a bit more weight on potential. Basically if both prospects potential is not too far apart I'll give the nod to the more NHL-ready player because he has shown more so far. That's the reason I went with Bigras instead of Jost even though I think Jost might end up being the best out of the two.

However between Compher and Meloche both have yet to play in the NHL and AHL for that matter so I'll go with the player I think has more potential which IMO is Meloche.

I hope it makes sense. I wish we would have a standard to go by when ranking these guys but that would mean agreeing on some sort of weigh to put on each player's attributes such as NHL ready, skills, skating, physicality, etc.

Oh well carry on!!!!

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

I never said he wasn't. And of course not, I was just commenting on the way he & connor worked together during the season based on purely on guesses...Tanguay also had a higher skill level than Compher. And improving a shot/goal scoring ability is one of the trickier areas for a guy to improve.

Meloche is already unreal at generating shots on net, while moving the puck very well. He really doesn't have to add any new dimensions to his game to grow into a dream Zadorov-partner. He just needs to keep polishing his game & skating.

Can and are-likely-to are two very different questions.

How do you know Tanguay had a higher skill level? You don't even know where Compher is at in his development. Compher and Tanguay share a lot of qualities, particularly elite vision and passing. And who, besides you, is to say Compher can't/won't improve even further?

If Meloche was that "unreal" then he would be dominating his league. But he hasnt been putting up insane numbers. He might have the tools, particularly the shot and ability to EJ the puck up the ice, but his instincts are not that great and his handling and passing are nothing to brag about (not that they need work). In their current state it's going to be much harder for Meloche's offense to translate over to the NHL than it will be for Compher's. And if Meloche is just going to be a 20 point NHLer then it's not likely he sees top pair.

"Are-likely-to"? For some reason that only applies to your "pet" prospects. Guys like Z and Meloche and anyone you have high hopes for you act as if it's a forgone conclusion they will be the best player they can possibly be. But others, oh no, god forbid anyone talk about their ceiling and potential. We need to be real with those guys and think of their potential as some crazy unattainable end point. And anyone who is excited for these other guys is just being stupid for thinking they could be something more than what you think.

 

[Nzap]

Bigras edges it for me here.

Add Nantel

 

[henchman21]

How do you know Tanguay had a higher skill level? You don't even know where Compher is at in his development. Compher and Tanguay share a lot of qualities, particularly elite vision and passing. And who, besides you, is to say Compher can't/won't improve even further?

If Meloche was that "unreal" then he would be dominating his league. But he hasnt been putting up insane numbers. He might have the tools, particularly the shot and ability to EJ the puck up the ice, but his instincts are not that great and his handling and passing are nothing to brag about (not that they need work). In their current state it's going to be much harder for Meloche's offense to translate over to the NHL than it will be for Compher's. And if Meloche is just going to be a 20 point NHLer then it's not likely he sees top pair.

"Are-likely-to"? For some reason that only applies to your "pet" prospects. Guys like Z and Meloche and anyone you have high hopes for you act as if it's a forgone conclusion they will be the best player they can possibly be. But others, oh no, god forbid anyone talk about their ceiling and potential. We need to be real with those guys and think of their potential as some crazy unattainable end point. And anyone who is excited for these other guys is just being stupid for thinking they could be something more than what you think.

I've read some chastising about not seeing a player, I don't know how somebody could watch Meloche and not think he has great instincts. Meloche has been asked to play a ton of different roles and usually on bad teams. Groulx also pigeon holed him when he acquired Meloche. His usage there was very difficult to put up any semblance of numbers. Duhamel will open up Meloche's offense quite a bit next year.

Regardless... numbers really don't mean a damn thing in offensive translation for defensemen. None is always a red flag, but as long as they are providing some semblance of offense, it can translate. It is the skill set that matters.

Meloche looks to me like somebody who can put up 35-40 points in the NHL.

I am not to certain of this. One must to see Nico to play a better offence. It is my opinion that he is not the good shooter. He is not a PP QB at this moment.

I'd agree he isn't that, and that probably won't ever be in his skill set.

 

[thehockeywatchinger]

Meloche is a strong two way player, his offense is already there. He can move the puck, has a great shot and can score goals.

I am not to certain of this. One must to see Nico to play a better offence. It is my opinion that he is not the good shooter. He is not a PP QB at this moment.

 

[VikingAv]

Jost. Ceiling's so much higher than Bigras' that the wait is worth it. Add Morrison.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

Being a bit pessimistic about prospects is probably a responsible position to take. A lot of them disappoint - especially from the pedestals some of them are put on in this forum.

Personally, I don't rank them based upon "barely plausible highest end potential". I think that'll result in disappointment more times than not. IMO, prospects who have proven themselves (with some reasonable number of games anyway) against professional grown men - as opposed to amateur teenagers - is a good indicator. While I understand this isn't perfect in and of itself, it should have weight, IMO.

For me: Rantanen, Bigras, Compher/Jost, .Meloche

Expected potential. At this point Bigras is a likely second pairing defender. Perhaps even a solid #2. Better than Meloche being a 5% chance of being a legit #1 defender.

Don't care how other people rank prospects as long as Sakic is being realistic with their potential.

On another note: if Sakic becomes an amazing legendary GM does that make up for not trading him back in 07/08ish?

 

[ABasin]

On another note: if Sakic becomes an amazing legendary GM does that make up for not trading him back in 07/08ish?

Of course not.

 

[landy92mack29]

How do you know Tanguay had a higher skill level? You don't even know where Compher is at in his development. Compher and Tanguay share a lot of qualities, particularly elite vision and passing. And who, besides you, is to say Compher can't/won't improve even further?

If Meloche was that "unreal" then he would be dominating his league. But he hasnt been putting up insane numbers. He might have the tools, particularly the shot and ability to EJ the puck up the ice, but his instincts are not that great and his handling and passing are nothing to brag about (not that they need work). In their current state it's going to be much harder for Meloche's offense to translate over to the NHL than it will be for Compher's. And if Meloche is just going to be a 20 point NHLer then it's not likely he sees top pair.

"Are-likely-to"? For some reason that only applies to your "pet" prospects. Guys like Z and Meloche and anyone you have high hopes for you act as if it's a forgone conclusion they will be the best player they can possibly be. But others, oh no, god forbid anyone talk about their ceiling and potential. We need to be real with those guys and think of their potential as some crazy unattainable end point. And anyone who is excited for these other guys is just being stupid for thinking they could be something more than what you think.

Pretty impressive to have so much wrong in one post. Meloche does dominate his league as he's tasked to shutdown the top players of the opposing team. He hasn't put up eye popping numbers because the Drakkar were garbage and Meloche was THE team. When he was traded he was put in a shutdown role with little chances of putting up offense because Carrier was in his role and the captain so they weren't going to take it away from him. His instincts are elite and his puck skills are pretty damn good as well. Compher is a good prospect but I'll take a top 4 D-man(very safe projection for Meloche) vs a 2nd/3rd tweener like Compher(as well as Beaudin+Greer).

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

I've read some chastising about not seeing a player, I don't know how somebody could watch Meloche and not think he has great instincts. Meloche has been asked to play a ton of different roles and usually on bad teams. Groulx also pigeon holed him when he acquired Meloche. His usage there was very difficult to put up any semblance of numbers. Duhamel will open up Meloche's offense quite a bit next year.

Regardless... numbers really don't mean a damn thing in offensive translation for defensemen. None is always a red flag, but as long as they are providing some semblance of offense, it can translate. It is the skill set that matters.

Meloche looks to me like somebody who can put up 35-40 points in the NHL.



I'd agree he isn't that, and that probably won't ever be in his skill set.

I never claimed I saw a lot of him. The few times I did though I just kept thinking "EJ" when he had the puck. It's not that he showed bad awareness, but it's not something that stood out like his DZ awareness.

So what's keeping him from being a PP QB if he has all the tools and the instincts?

 

[henchman21]

So what's keeping him from being a PP QB if he has all the tools and the instincts?

Creativity is the biggest... the best PP QBs see things in those situations than many do not. Meloche is a very honest defender with everything that he does, he isn't going to try to pull off the impossible though and the best QBs do. Meloche could probably do fine on a second unit, or as a trigger man (his shot does need to improve in both accuracy and quickness of release), but he isn't going to be hailed as a great PP QB.

Some of the best defensemen out there are not QB types... hell, Weber isn't (best triggerman in the league though) and really Barrie isn't either (though he showed big strides this year in that area). That doesn't mean Meloche is poor offensively. IMO Meloche has the look of an honest all around 35-40 point defensemen when he figures things out in the NHL.

Seeing EJ in a prospect is not a bad thing, not a bad thing at all. EJ is a low end #1/high end #2 defensemen. A step better is a legit #1D, a step worse is still a top pairing defensemen. Meloche has some shades of EJ in his game, not who I'd compare him to, but I see some of it.

 

[S E P H]

Meloche will be good defender, but I am still not sold on his offensive game. He made all the right plays during rookie camp, but actually seeing him at training camp and perhaps maybe one preseason game will show how far along he is.

For the poll, I was tired and accidentally voted for Bigras, please change my vote for Jost. Jost has the superior ceiling, but I hope that Bigras develops into something grand where he can displace Tyson as the second best prospect. That would really help our organization a lot if he's not too far behind Vlasic in terms of overall ability.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Creativity is the biggest... the best PP QBs see things in those situations than many do not. Meloche is a very honest defender with everything that he does, he isn't going to try to pull off the impossible though and the best QBs do. Meloche could probably do fine on a second unit, or as a trigger man (his shot does need to improve in both accuracy and quickness of release), but he isn't going to be hailed as a great PP QB.

Some of the best defensemen out there are not QB types... hell, Weber isn't (best triggerman in the league though) and really Barrie isn't either (though he showed big strides this year in that area). That doesn't mean Meloche is poor offensively. IMO Meloche has the look of an honest all around 35-40 point defensemen when he figures things out in the NHL.

Seeing EJ in a prospect is not a bad thing, not a bad thing at all. EJ is a low end #1/high end #2 defensemen. A step better is a legit #1D, a step worse is still a top pairing defensemen. Meloche has some shades of EJ in his game, not who I'd compare him to, but I see some of it.

Makes sense. Could be what I was seeing as well and mistaking the lack of creativity and a fairly safe game for not so great instincts.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

Pretty impressive to have so much wrong in one post. Meloche does dominate his league as he's tasked to shutdown the top players of the opposing team. He hasn't put up eye popping numbers because the Drakkar were garbage and Meloche was THE team. When he was traded he was put in a shutdown role with little chances of putting up offense because Carrier was in his role and the captain so they weren't going to take it away from him. His instincts are elite and his puck skills are pretty damn good as well. Compher is a good prospect but I'll take a top 4 D-man(very safe projection for Meloche) vs a 2nd/3rd tweener like Compher(as well as Beaudin+Greer).

If he's dominant defensively and has reasonable offensive skills won't he put up at least some assists by virtue of having large ice time and always having puck possession?

 

[tigervixxxen]

If he's dominant defensively and has reasonable offensive skills won't he put up at least some assists by virtue of having large ice time and always having puck possession?

Yes, his numbers are good. The point is about they will get better if he's not playing the shutdown role next year.

http://theqmjhl.ca/players/12177/00

 

[tigervixxxen]

I said be civil, give it a damn rest.

 

[PAZ]

Went with Bigras. I really like Jost, but IMO they have similar ceilings, but Bigras is closer to being NHL ready. Hard choice though, cause Jost is more likely to reach his ceiling than Bigras.

 

[UncleRisto]

Wow we're really torn by this.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Someone better break the tie or I'll pull my hair out lol

 

[henchman21]

Wow we're really torn by this.

And it will pretty much end up a split either way... I say call it a tie.

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

Vote for Jost!

 

[CobraAcesS]

We should love and appreciate anything resembling competent defense more than this is showing lol.

Our forwards have been far more frustrating I think. (Young high talent guys)

 

[Nzap]

I thought the vote ended at 100 votes.

Bigras would've won quite handily at that point (by a few points).