2016 NHL Draft

[Bonsai Tree]

Tkachuk and Roenick gave heart, soul and blood for this team. Long time fans appreciate that. That they left under unhappy circumstances was as much due to management as anything.

 

[ClassLessCoyote]

I'll be happy with we can get a Top 5 pick or Matthews or Tkachuk.

 

[rt]

Big Tkachuk fan. But let's not allow distance to make the heart grow too fond. He was a two time hold out and as big a contract pain in the ass as we've ever seen. He also left with some parting jabs. I'm not holding a grudge. Still a big fan. But let's not deify him too much, here. There were warts. That's all.

 

[Jakey53]

Big Tkachuk fan. But let's not allow distance to make the heart grow too fond. He was a two time hold out and as big a contract pain in the ass as we've ever seen. He also left with some parting jabs. I'm not holding a grudge. Still a big fan. But let's not deify him too much, here. There were warts. That's all.

I agree. Big fan of Tkachuk the hockey player, not a fan of his as a person.

 

[PhoPhan]

Big Tkachuk fan. But let's not allow distance to make the heart grow too fond. He was a two time hold out and as big a contract pain in the ass as we've ever seen. He also left with some parting jabs. I'm not holding a grudge. Still a big fan. But let's not deify him too much, here. There were warts. That's all.

Yeah, I'm not trying to bury him or anything. He's still my favorite Coyote of all time, warts and all, and was a big reason I became a fan in the first place. I'm just not sure there's enough fuzzy warm feelings to justify taking his kid over a better player.

I also don't really buy into the narrative that Maloney has a significant devotion to bloodlines. Every team has a few of them, and I don't see Maloney's approach deviating all that much from the norm (which is to say I don't think the Coyotes have that many more pedigreed players than the average, nor do I think they've put a premium on those bloodlines by drafting a player sooner than he should have been drafted or paying extra to acquire him). Tkachuk is obviously a special case, but don't forget the Coyotes didn't even offer Burke's kid a contract.

With regard to Tkachuk specifically, the value in drafting for bloodlines has less to do with genetics and more to do with upbringing. Max Domi is as mature as he is because he was in this world from the day he was born and knows how to comport himself within it. Matt Tkachuk probably does, too, but if he's taking cues from his dad, there's a high potential for contractual headaches.

 

[BlazingBlueAnt]

Yeah, I'm not trying to bury him or anything. He's still my favorite Coyote of all time, warts and all, and was a big reason I became a fan in the first place. I'm just not sure there's enough fuzzy warm feelings to justify taking his kid over a better player.

I also don't really buy into the narrative that Maloney has a significant devotion to bloodlines. Every team has a few of them, and I don't see Maloney's approach deviating all that much from the norm (which is to say I don't think the Coyotes have that many more pedigreed players than the average, nor do I think they've put a premium on those bloodlines by drafting a player sooner than he should have been drafted or paying extra to acquire him). Tkachuk is obviously a special case, but don't forget the Coyotes didn't even offer Burke's kid a contract.

With regard to Tkachuk specifically, the value in drafting for bloodlines has less to do with genetics and more to do with upbringing. Max Domi is as mature as he is because he was in this world from the day he was born and knows how to comport himself within it. Matt Tkachuk probably does, too, but if he's taking cues from his dad, there's a high potential for contractual headaches.

Burkes kid sucks though

If Tkachuk is at where we are drafting, assuming we don't win the lottery, he's prob the BPA. Also get more of that sweet, sweet London Knight connection

 

[Matias Maccete]

Yeah, I'm not trying to bury him or anything. He's still my favorite Coyote of all time, warts and all, and was a big reason I became a fan in the first place. I'm just not sure there's enough fuzzy warm feelings to justify taking his kid over a better player.

I also don't really buy into the narrative that Maloney has a significant devotion to bloodlines. Every team has a few of them, and I don't see Maloney's approach deviating all that much from the norm (which is to say I don't think the Coyotes have that many more pedigreed players than the average, nor do I think they've put a premium on those bloodlines by drafting a player sooner than he should have been drafted or paying extra to acquire him). Tkachuk is obviously a special case, but don't forget the Coyotes didn't even offer Burke's kid a contract.

With regard to Tkachuk specifically, the value in drafting for bloodlines has less to do with genetics and more to do with upbringing. Max Domi is as mature as he is because he was in this world from the day he was born and knows how to comport himself within it. Matt Tkachuk probably does, too, but if he's taking cues from his dad, there's a high potential for contractual headaches.

Didn't maloney say he drafted bloodlines for a while because the scouts were spread thin and they wanted good character players?

 

[BlazingBlueAnt]

Didn't maloney say he drafted bloodlines for a while because the scouts were spread thin and they wanted good character players?

Should have just used us

I remember a lot of people wanting Fabbri in 2014

Board 40: 1 | Yote Scouts: 0

I'm ignoring every other good draft pick

 

[Heldig]

Too many options (for me) until we know what position the Coyotes draft. I am not as high on Tkachuk as some (and Keith is one of my favourite players).

If the Coyotes draft around 8 I hope one of the big 3 defensemen are still available.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

"Bloodline" picks in the Maloney era:

Vladimir Ruzicka (2007)
Viktor Tikhonov (2008 1st round)
Jared Staal (2008)
Brett Hextall (2008)
Connor Murphy (2011 1st round)
Alexander Ruuttu (2011 - son of the Coyotes' Scandanavian scout at the time)
Henrik Samuelsson (2012 1st round - Ulf left that year to coach MODO so wasn't technically nepotism)
Max Domi (2013 1st round)
Brendan Burke (2013)
Brendan Perlini (2014 1st round)
Ryan MacInnis (2014)

...so he does tend to rely on them from the evidence. That said, not many of these guys were Beat-Schiess Forsters...

 

[BlazingBlueAnt]

"Bloodline" picks in the Maloney era:

Vladimir Ruzicka (2007)
Viktor Tikhonov (2008 1st round)
Jared Staal (2008)
Brett Hextall (2008)
Connor Murphy (2011 1st round)
Alexander Ruuttu (2011 - son of the Coyotes' Scandanavian scout at the time)
Henrik Samuelsson (2012 1st round - Ulf left that year to coach MODO so wasn't technically nepotism)
Max Domi (2013 1st round)
Brendan Burke (2013)
Ryan MacInnis (2014)

...so he does tend to rely on them from the evidence. That said, not many of these guys were Beat-Schiess Forsters...

You could prob count Perlini in there

 

[PhoPhan]

"Bloodline" picks in the Maloney era:

Vladimir Ruzicka (2007)
Viktor Tikhonov (2008 1st round)
Jared Staal (2008)
Brett Hextall (2008)
Connor Murphy (2011 1st round)
Alexander Ruuttu (2011 - son of the Coyotes' Scandanavian scout at the time)
Henrik Samuelsson (2012 1st round - Ulf left that year to coach MODO so wasn't technically nepotism)
Max Domi (2013 1st round)
Brendan Burke (2013)
Brendan Perlini (2014 1st round)
Ryan MacInnis (2014)

...so he does tend to rely on them from the evidence. That said, not many of these guys were Beat-Schiess Forsters...

That number is meaningless in the abstract, though (don't forget Dylan Strome, though, if you're counting brothers). How many picks like that have other teams made in the same span of time? How many of those players did the Coyotes draft too early?

 

[The Feckless Puck]

That number is meaningless in the abstract, though (don't forget Dylan Strome, though, if you're counting brothers). How many picks like that have other teams made in the same span of time? How many of those players did the Coyotes draft too early?

Only reason I posted that list was to point out that there is a pattern. I went back over the draft picks prior to Maloney's and didn't find much of any correlation in the pattern with previous GMs.

It does bear mentioning that a couple of those "bloodlined" players have panned out rather well (Domi, Murphy), Tikhonov at least has had a couple of years' worth of NHL play, and a couple of others are promising (MacInnis for sure, Perlini and Samuelsson higher risk but still projectable to the NHL), so that's about a 50% hit rate - about the norm for anyone drafting hockey talent.

That Ruuttu pick, though...

 

[Sinurgy]

True, I meant more in line with the "Hurr Durr, He's from Arizona, they will sell us everything just to be able to market him" line of thought the main boards still have stuck in their heads

There were people debating if we would offer #2 + OEL for #1

I think Matthews from a marketing standpoint is waaaaaay more valuable than Tkachuk, not to mention simply being projected to be a better player. The casual fan will get behind the hometown boy, especially given the context of him being #1 overall and from the least traditional market in the league. I was pleasantly surprised at the reaction he got when they showed him on the jumbotron just before interviewing him this past Saturday night, the cheering was pretty damn loud suggesting more than just us over obsessed fans are aware of the kid!

Granted this is all moot, the Coyotes will never be lucky enough to get him and as great as he would be for this franchise, I would not entertain any trade offer that includes OEL.

 

[PhoPhan]

Only reason I posted that list was to point out that there is a pattern. I went back over the draft picks prior to Maloney's and didn't find much of any correlation in the pattern with previous GMs.

It does bear mentioning that a couple of those "bloodlined" players have panned out rather well (Domi, Murphy), Tikhonov at least has had a couple of years' worth of NHL play, and a couple of others are promising (MacInnis for sure, Perlini and Samuelsson higher risk but still projectable to the NHL), so that's about a 50% hit rate - about the norm for anyone drafting hockey talent.

That Ruuttu pick, though...

I think it makes more sense to compare it to other teams over the same span, as opposed to other regimes in the same organization. My belief is that there's been a spike in bloodlines players coming into the league, partially due to the fact that there was so much league expansion a generation ago.

What I'm saying is: if the Coyotes have drafted eleven players since 2007 with bloodlines as loose as we've defined them (i.e. nephews and brothers in addition to sons, guys like Tikhonov who had nothing to do with the NHL, and guys like Perlini who had only eight total NHL gamses), I'd imagine most teams are probably pretty close to that total over the same time period. Eleven players in nine drafts doesn't seem that significant to me.

Agreed on the Ruuttu pick, by the way, but that's a very different sort of bloodlines pick, and his own dad said he was against it. Still not sure what the hell happened there.

 

[Jakey53]

I think Matthews from a marketing standpoint is waaaaaay more valuable than Tkachuk, not to mention simply being projected to be a better player. The casual fan will get behind the hometown boy, especially given the context of him being #1 overall and from the least traditional market in the league. I was pleasantly surprised at the reaction he got when they showed him on the jumbotron just before interviewing him this past Saturday night, the cheering was pretty damn loud suggesting more than just us over obsessed fans are aware of the kid!

Granted this is all moot, the Coyotes will never be lucky enough to get him and as great as he would be for this franchise, I would not entertain any trade offer that includes OEL.

I agree. When Walsh was interviewing him a bunch of fans were standing up and taking pictures. If we could only be so lucky. It would be a match made in heaven.

 

[_Del_]

Honestly, I think from a pure marketing standpoint, Tkachuk would give equal value. They'll bring out all the old KT clips and to the casual fans that'd be better than Matthews (though the talent level of Matthews obviously would be a huge plus).

 

[Sinurgy]

Honestly, I think from a pure marketing standpoint, Tkachuk would give equal value. They'll bring out all the old KT clips and to the casual fans that'd be better than Matthews (though the talent level of Matthews obviously would be a huge plus).

I don't think casual fans will give two ***** about Tkachuk, it's the more seasoned fans care about that name.

 

[_Del_]

I don't even like Keith Tkachuk, but he still has name recognition with casual fans, and it'd get the same amount of extra air time as Matthews as a result, imo.

 

[Sinurgy]

I don't even like Keith Tkachuk, but he still has name recognition with casual fans, and it'd get the same amount of extra air time as Matthews as a result, imo.

I think the franchises very first number 1 overall pick who is not only the first of his kind, being the top prospect from the desert and all, but is also the hometown kid of said desert city is near unmatched in marketing ability. I don't see why you think a kid who's Dad played here for 4.5 seasons 16 years ago is going to match that. Don't get me wrong, they'd still push the hell out of Tkachuk and he's more marketable than just about anyone else from the draft but I really don't see how he'd match Matthews. Were you at the game Saturday? The whole place erupted when they interviewed the kid.

All that said, Tkachuk is actually a possibility here and Matthews essentially is not so I guess this is completely futile debate.

 

[rt]

6% baby!

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I don't think casual fans will give two ***** about Tkachuk, it's the more seasoned fans care about that name.

Our franchise doesn't have any "casual fans."

 

[Bonsai Tree]

I don't think casual fans will give two ***** about Tkachuk, it's the more seasoned fans care about that name.

Nope you have it wrong. The Bickelies and Gamborinies in the media will pounce on it and make their listeners aware.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Nope you have it wrong. The Bickelies and Gamborinies in the media will pounce on it and make their listeners aware.

That's for sure... Gambo in particular wouldn't know who Matthews is or care, but "kuh-CHOCK's" kid would send him into paroxysms of Noo Yawker chatter about it being a great legacy pick. Gambo still lives in the year 2000 with this team anyway.

Bickley, on the other hand, would like Matthews better because Auston, like him, is a Blackhawks fan stranded in the desert.

 

[_Del_]

Nope you have it wrong. The Bickelies and Gamborinies in the media will pounce on it and make their listeners aware.

Yep. It'd be like Toronto media on Domi. It's instant, easy ratings/clicks.