2016 Hall Of Fame Results: Griffey Jr, Piazza inducted into the HoF

GIN ANTONIC

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Aug 19, 2007
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I'm well aware. And I don't even disagree with MLB's decision. They're just making a mountain out of a mole hill. Steroids and blatant cheating is still worse than what Rose did by far.

Well it's really not, but whatever. There's really no use debating this anymore as your argument basically comes down to "MLB is wrong". Like sure I guess it is according to you. That's great. It really doesn't matter what you believe to be important in their league, they get to decide that and they have. I'm just telling you why they have taken that stance and you refuse to accept it or something.
 

darko

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Feb 16, 2009
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I'm well aware. I don't even disagree with MLB's decision. They're just making a mountain out of a mole hill. Steroids and blatant cheating is still worse than what Rose did by far.


When you are a manager, gambling is blatant cheating.
 

SladeWilson23

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Well it's really not, but whatever. There's really no use debating this anymore as your argument basically comes down to "MLB is wrong". Like sure I guess it is according to you. That's great. It really doesn't matter what you believe to be important in their league, they get to decide that and they have. I'm just telling you why they have taken that stance and you refuse to accept it or something.

Yes, committing a crime is worse than legal activity. MLB is not above the law.

Show me once where I refused to accept this. I've stated several times MLB made the right choice.

How can I agree with Rose being banned from baseball, but still not accept their decision?

When you are a manager, gambling is blatant cheating.

No it's not. Unless you provide proof he made decisions where he put the Reds in position to lose in order to gain money.

i can't make it any more simple than:

pete rose broke literally the only rule mlb had.

Correct. That literally has zero to do with anything regarding the HOF.
 

robert terwilliger

the bart, the
Nov 14, 2005
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Correct. That literally has zero to do with anything regarding the HOF.

it has everything to do with it as mlb declared him permanently ineligible and the hall of fame declared any players who are ineligible not eligible to be voted on.

i just don't think you truly understand the magnitude of having a manager of a baseball team gambling on games that he's involved in.
 

SladeWilson23

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it has everything to do with it as mlb declared him permanently ineligible and the hall of fame declared any players who are ineligible not eligible to be voted on.

i just don't think you truly understand the magnitude of having a manager of a baseball team gambling on games that he's involved in.

Fact. MLB and the HOF have nothing to do with each other. The HOF may be acting in line with MLB, but they are still able to make their own decisions.

Fact. Steroids far and away affected baseball a lot more than Rose trying to gain a couple of extra bucks.

Fact. There is no proof he actually did manage the Reds in a way to purposely put the Reds in the best chance to lose.

Fact. Betting on baseball in itself is not a crime.

Fact. Taking steroids is a crime.

Fact. Taking steroids is blatant cheating.

Fact. Betting on Baseball is not cheating.

Gambling is the most innocent activity that happens to be against the rules. It's one of those things you can do, and not realize there's anything wrong with doing it. Not saying that's the case with Rose, but it's far more forgiveable than trying to blatantly cheat.
 

GIN ANTONIC

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it has everything to do with it as mlb declared him permanently ineligible and the hall of fame declared any players who are ineligible not eligible to be voted on.

i just don't think you truly understand the magnitude of having a manager of a baseball team gambling on games that he's involved in.

You can't prove his gambling had any impact on the Reds so obviously I didn't. It's just not plausible to connect the two at all. He was just trying to make a few extra bucks. He has a disease. It's not his fault.
 

GIN ANTONIC

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I love how this guy "knows" the effects that steroids had on the game with absolute certainty but it's impossible to understand the implications of Rose betting on baseball games that he managed in. KTHNXBAI
 

SladeWilson23

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I love how this guy "knows" the effects that steroids had on the game with absolute certainty but it's impossible to understand the implications of Rose betting on baseball games that he managed in. KTHNXBAI

Because is there no evidence that Rose's gambling did have any effect. Saying it "could" have affected the outcome of games is not good enough.

We KNOW steroids DID affect baseball.

Why is that hard for YOU to understand?
 

SladeWilson23

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You can't prove his gambling had any impact on the Reds so obviously I didn't. It's just not plausible to connect the two at all. He was just trying to make a few extra bucks. He has a disease. It's not his fault.

So if there is a gun in your house, it means you shot and killed someone with it. Ok.
 

GIN ANTONIC

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So if there is a gun in your house, it means you shot and killed someone with it. Ok.

Yup. Exact same thing. Keep on keeping on with that nonsensical analogy. If you can't see how gambling on games that you manage could potentially have you influence said games for reasons other than simply trying to win then you're actually dumber than we all think you are.
 

robert terwilliger

the bart, the
Nov 14, 2005
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Fact. MLB and the HOF have nothing to do with each other. The HOF may be acting in line with MLB, but they are still able to make their own decisions.

yes. and they made the decision that any player who is declared ineligible is not eligible w/r/t the hall of fame. that's their decision.

Fact. Steroids far and away affected baseball a lot more than Rose trying to gain a couple of extra bucks.

i would say that if you asked any commissioner of any league around the world that the only thing that would chill his blood more than steroids is someone actively involved in the day to day operations of a team betting on said team. this point is essential.

Fact. There is no proof he actually did manage the Reds in a way to purposely put the Reds in the best chance to lose.

that literally doesn't matter. he bet on his team.

(d) BETTING ON BALL GAMES. Any player, umpire, or club official or
employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in
connection with which the bettor has no duty to perform shall be declared
ineligible for one year.

Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall
bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which
the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible.

that's literally all that needs said.

Fact. Betting on baseball in itself is not a crime.

- sure it's not. when you do it legally and when you're not the player/manager of a team that you're betting on and receiving paychecks from.

- you can't really apply law and order w/r/t sports leagues. they have their own cbas and punishment systems. it's also illegal to throw a 100mph fastball at another person but mlb doesn't get the courts involved in cases like that, they sort the punishment out themselves. same with rose. mlb had one rule, literally one rule, that they posted in every locker room and said, "look guys. break this rule and you're entering a world of pain." rose didn't care, he broke the rule and he was punished for it.

Fact. Taking steroids is a crime.

so are dui, domestic violence and all that. again, they're handled with kid gloves by the courts. mlb's cba did not have a testing policy at the time and drugs were all over the game (and had been for the better part of, well, since baseball existed)

Fact. Taking steroids is blatant cheating.

gaylord-perry1.jpg

mays1.jpg


yeah man, what a bunch of cheaters. cheating has been a part of sport since it was invented. casually ignoring it until it comes to guys that you don't like personally is a really ****** way to run a railroad.

Fact. Betting on Baseball is not cheating.

it just calls into question the legitimacy of the game, the team, the league and the sport itself.

Gambling is the most innocent activity that happens to be against the rules. It's one of those things you can do, and not realize there's anything wrong with doing it. Not saying that's the case with Rose, but it's far more forgiveable than trying to blatantly cheat.

this is just so wrong that i kind of feel bad for you. you're acting like rose was caught buying scratch tickets or something. he was betting between $2,000-$5,000 on games that he was involved in. mlb has banned every player caught gambling for life in the history of the league. rose knew that.

just this past year there was a story on jarred cosart where he was caught making some bets. mlb acted, investigated and closed the case within a week. if you're curious, cosart was fined but wasn't banned for life because he was placing bets on college basketball. gambling is fine. athletes gamble on sports all the time. they're not allowed to gamble on games they're playing in. it calls into question the legitimacy of the outcome and whether or not the game was fixed. period.
 

SladeWilson23

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Yup. Exact same thing. Keep on keeping on with that nonsensical analogy. If you can't see how gambling on games that you manage could potentially have you influence said games for reasons other than simply trying to win then you're actually dumber than we all think you are.

I can.

But show me that this did indeed happen.
 

SladeWilson23

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yes. and they made the decision that any player who is declared ineligible is not eligible w/r/t the hall of fame. that's their decision.

And this entire time I've been saying that it's not the right decision, and why it's not the right decision.

i would say that if you asked any commissioner of any league around the world that the only thing that would chill his blood more than steroids is someone actively involved in the day to day operations of a team betting on said team. this point is essential.

Perhaps, but the commissioner has nothing to do with the HOF.

that literally doesn't matter. he bet on his team.

It makes a difference, because maybe he bet FOR his team.

that's literally all that needs said.

I understand the rule.

- sure it's not. when you do it legally and when you're not the player/manager of a team that you're betting on and receiving paychecks from.

- you can't really apply law and order w/r/t sports leagues. they have their own cbas and punishment systems. it's also illegal to throw a 100mph fastball at another person but mlb doesn't get the courts involved in cases like that, they sort the punishment out themselves. same with rose. mlb had one rule, literally one rule, that they posted in every locker room and said, "look guys. break this rule and you're entering a world of pain." rose didn't care, he broke the rule and he was punished for it.

And rightfully so. Still has zero to do with the HOF.

so are dui, domestic violence and all that. again, they're handled with kid gloves by the courts. mlb's cba did not have a testing policy at the time and drugs were all over the game (and had been for the better part of, well, since baseball existed)

Correct. And I personally don't have any issues with PED's in baseball.

gaylord-perry1.jpg

mays1.jpg


yeah man, what a bunch of cheaters. cheating has been a part of sport since it was invented. casually ignoring it until it comes to guys that you don't like personally is a really ****** way to run a railroad.

And cheating is wrong. There's nothing wrong with gambling in itself.

it just calls into question the legitimacy of the game, the team, the league and the sport itself.

So do steroids and cheating in general. We don't know what's authentic or legit because of steroids.

this is just so wrong that i kind of feel bad for you. you're acting like rose was caught buying scratch tickets or something. he was betting between $2,000-$5,000 on games that he was involved in. mlb has banned every player caught gambling for life in the history of the league. rose knew that.

just this past year there was a story on jarred cosart where he was caught making some bets. mlb acted, investigated and closed the case within a week. if you're curious, cosart was fined but wasn't banned for life because he was placing bets on college basketball. gambling is fine. athletes gamble on sports all the time. they're not allowed to gamble on games they're playing in. it calls into question the legitimacy of the outcome and whether or not the game was fixed. period.

I know that players aren't allowed to gamble on their own games. It still doesn't take away the fact it has nothing to do with the HOF.

The HOF has their right to invoke whatever rules they want. So if they wanna follow in MLB's footsteps, that's up to them.

But my point is, them making Rose ineligible is wrong, because the HOF is about his playing career. He had a HOF career as a player. Unless he murders someone, or beats someone up, or is involved with something really heinous, he should be eligible for the HOF.
 

robert terwilliger

the bart, the
Nov 14, 2005
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511
sw florida
it is the right decision and it's a good thing because the hall of fame doesn't take a stand on anything usually. it's a mark of how ****ing serious an offense gambling on baseball games that you're managing is.
 

SladeWilson23

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it is the right decision and it's a good thing because the hall of fame doesn't take a stand on anything usually. it's a mark of how ****ing serious an offense gambling on baseball games that you're managing is.

But blatant cheating is ok?

You can't support steroid guys post 2003ish being the HOF, but have an issue with Rose being in the HOF especially when steroids is clearly worse. While Bonds and Clemens should in the HOF, why should guys like Palmeiro or A-rod go to the HOF? They blatantly broke rules, and lied about it as well.
 

GIN ANTONIC

Registered User
Aug 19, 2007
19,005
15,191
Toronto, ON
TL;DR

Everyone and absolutely everyone agrees that Rose deserves to be in the hall based on his playing career. Just move on man. The HOF made their ruling on it. It is what it is.

You can't prove that steroids impact a players performance in baseball. There's evidence that could lead you to this conclusion just like there's a line of reasoning that one can use that Rose used his position as manager to influence the outcome of games for his financial benefit. Just stop it now dude. You're arguing complete nonsense.
 

robert terwilliger

the bart, the
Nov 14, 2005
24,059
511
sw florida
"when steroids is clearly worse"

no.

no.

no. no. no.

both by mlb's rules and by common sense. no.

even with mlb's new drug testing being extremely strict, it's still three strikes before you're banned for life. gambling on baseball is one strike and you're out.

you need to understand that.

bonds, clemens and a-rod never failed tests. we "know" in the same way that we know that rose gambled on baseball even when he was denying it for years. bonds had grand jury testimony leaked and was convicted of obstruction of justice before it was overturned. they couldn't pin so much as a ****ing parking ticket on him. same with clemens. a-rod admitted to taking steroids and is still being punished despite serving the longest suspension ever for someone who didn't fail a test.

palmeiro failed a test after wagging his finger. it was ****ing hysterical.
 

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