Line Combos: 2016-2017 Detroit Red Wings

[jolly roger]

On paper, a trade of Tatar + Sheahan for Fowler would help both teams. If that happened, I'd let Helm and his fat contract center the two kids, and have combos like this:

Zetterberg - Larkin - Nyquist
Abdelkader - Nielsen - Vanek
AA - Helm - Mantha
Miller - Glendenning - Ott

Fowler - DeKeyser
Green - Kronwall
Marchenko - Smith / Ericsson

Mrazek

If we don't get Fowler we will BE fouler on D.
That would be really ugly on D overall.

 

[Henkka]

If we get Fowler, we proably have a problem who plays on which side.

Kronwall prefers Left side.
DeKeyser prefers Left side, we tried him on the right but he sucked like almost every left-handed guy will do.
Fowler prefers left side.

Green on the right.
Marchenko on the right.
Adding Fowler will push Ericsson on the right, where he sucks also. He has been ok on the left, and I want best out of him. No more right side duties and bonehead plays.
Smith, prefers Left, and sucks on right, but probably sucks least of our left side guys. Still a 7th defenceman = trade bait.

It still is:

DeKeyser - X ? (shut-down + 1st Def.Zone pair)
Kronwall - Marchenko (hybrid secondary def-zone + secondary off zone pair)
Ericsson - Green (1st offensive zone pair, when at same time, Ericsson is sheltered and Green used as an advantage with his strength.

Trouba would be the most ideal fit to pair with DeKeyser if I consider there rumoured names. He is a defense first player with offensive skill, not yet to pan out.

Without any trades, we just have to go:

DeKeyser - Ericsson (1st shut-down + 1st def.zone pair)
Kronwall - Marchenko (hybrid secondary option on both ends)
Smith - Green (1st offensive zone pair)
(Ouellet)

And no news is, that Ericsson will get killed again.

 

[Frk It]

If we get Fowler, we proably have a problem who plays on which side.

Kronwall prefers Left side.
DeKeyser prefers Left side, we tried him on the right but he sucked like almost every left-handed guy will do.
Fowler prefers left side.

Green on the right.
Marchenko on the right.
Adding Fowler will push Ericsson on the right, where he sucks also. He has been ok on the left, and I want best out of him. No more right side duties and bonehead plays.
Smith, prefers Left, and sucks on right, but probably sucks least of our left side guys. Still a 7th defenceman = trade bait.

It still is:

DeKeyser - X ? (shut-down + 1st Def.Zone pair)
Kronwall - Marchenko (hybrid secondary def-zone + secondary off zone pair)
Ericsson - Green (1st offensive zone pair, when at same time, Ericsson is sheltered and Green used as an advantage with his strength.

Trouba would be the most ideal fit to pair with DeKeyser if I consider there rumoured names. He is a defense first player with offensive skill, not yet to pan out.

Without any trades, we just have to go:

DeKeyser - Ericsson (1st shut-down + 1st def.zone pair)
Kronwall - Marchenko (hybrid secondary option on both ends)
Smith - Green (1st offensive zone pair)
(Ouellet)

And no news is, that Ericsson will get killed again.

I don't really get the issue. Dekeyser on the 2nd pair, and Kronwall on the 3rd pair is fine. Actually, that's where I'd prefer them.

I wouldn't even have Ericsson in my top 6, but whatever.

If we acquired Fowler

Fowler-Green
Dekeyser-Marchenko
Kronwall-Smith

If we acquired a RH/RD

Dekeyser-RD acquisition
Kronwall-Green
E/Smith-Marchenko

Not a huge difference.

 

[Winger98]

Helm-Larkin-Nyquist
Tatar-Nielsen-Abdelkader
Zetterberg-Sheahan-Vanek
Miller-Glendening-Jurco
Ott
Pulkkinen(IR)
Franzen(IR)
Vitale(IR)

Dekeyser-Green
Kronwall-Ericsson
Smith-Marchenko
Ouellet

Mrazek
Howard

Sproul lost on waivers.

This is not my ideal line-up, but what does it matter?

I don't know why I'm not seeing Zetterberg on more third lines, at least if we're doing lines we'd like to see and not necessarily what Blashill will throw out there. Getting weaker match-ups in that spot, while still getting a ton of PP time would seem to be the way to go with him and maybe get production from him past December. Pair him with Sheahan and Helm and we get another option for defensive zone draws.

 

[lidstromiscool]

I don't know why I'm not seeing Zetterberg on more third lines, at least if we're doing lines we'd like to see and not necessarily what Blashill will throw out there. Getting weaker match-ups in that spot, while still getting a ton of PP time would seem to be the way to go with him and maybe get production from him past December. Pair him with Sheahan and Helm and we get another option for defensive zone draws.

Because Zetterberg is still our first or second best forward, when he’s healthy and not worn down. If the Wings were deeper, it like him to be on the 2nd or 3rd line, but they can afford to do that. As bad as Z looked down the stretch/playoffs, most other forwards on the team struggled/would struggle playing vs top d pairings and lines imo

 

[Mijatovic]

Because Zetterberg is still our first or second best forward, when he’s healthy and not worn down.

Hes no longer any of those things.

 

[Winger98]

Hes no longer any of those things.

eh, maybe not literally our first or second best, but he's still top6 quality good. He just doesn't seem to be able to physically hack it any more for any extended period of time.

Because Zetterberg is still our first or second best forward, when he’s healthy and not worn down. If the Wings were deeper, it like him to be on the 2nd or 3rd line, but they can afford to do that. As bad as Z looked down the stretch/playoffs, most other forwards on the team struggled/would struggle playing vs top d pairings and lines imo

Honestly, yeah, Larkin/Tatar/Nyquist would struggle a bit with those premium assignments, at least at first. Z can't handle it for a year, though, and our future depends on those guys being able to handle those assignments. And two of those three aren't exactly young, it's time for them to start taking those reins.

Also, the six guys we could put there instead of Z are no longer that far behind him, if at all.

 

[Henkka]

Hes no longer any of those things.

Could you tell us, who are better than him?

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Detroit's 2016/17 Lineup including trading for Cam Fowler.

Detroit Red Wings Cam Fowler+Anaheim's 2017 3rd round pick

Anaheim Ducks Tomas Tatar+Riley Sheahan


Henrik Zetterberg-Dylan Larkin-Justin Abdelkader
Anthony Mantha-Frans Nielsen-Thomas Vanek
Darren Helm-Andreas Athanasiou-Gustav Nyquist
Steve Ott-Luke Glendening-Drew Miller
Tomas Jurco/Martin Frk


Danny DeKeyser-Mike Green
Cam Fowler-Alexi Marchenko
Niklas Kronwall-Jonathon Ericsson
Brendan Smith

Petr Mrazek
Jimmy Howards


LTIR Johan Franzen, Joe Vitale, Teemu Pulkkinen

This lineup looks a little better with both Tatar and Sheahan gone that opens up spots for both Mantha and Athanasiou.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Because Zetterberg is still our first or second best forward, when he’s healthy and not worn down. If the Wings were deeper, it like him to be on the 2nd or 3rd line, but they can afford to do that. As bad as Z looked down the stretch/playoffs, most other forwards on the team struggled/would struggle playing vs top d pairings and lines imo

It seems pretty clear Blashill is going to run him into the ground based on last season. Only Danny DeKeyser played more total minutes last year than Z. With Babs we saw him start to limit Nick's hard minutes and more or less completely remove him from the PK towards the end of his career. Z didn't get many SH minutes last year which is good. He played far too many ES minutes for a guy of his age and how many miles he has on his body at this point.

I think the combo of Blashill having so few quality replacements, the drive to do whatever it takes to keep the playoff streak alive, and Blashill's tendencies to overwork his top players will results in another year of Z being asked to play way too many hard ES minutes.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

eh, maybe not literally our first or second best, but he's still top6 quality good. He just doesn't seem to be able to physically hack it any more for any extended period of time.



Honestly, yeah, Larkin/Tatar/Nyquist would struggle a bit with those premium assignments, at least at first. Z can't handle it for a year, though, and our future depends on those guys being able to handle those assignments. And two of those three aren't exactly young, it's time for them to start taking those reins.

Also, the six guys we could put there instead of Z are no longer that far behind him, if at all.

They'd also get killed in the faceoff circle, even with Helm on the top line to help out.

It seems pretty clear Blashill is going to run him into the ground based on last season. Only Danny DeKeyser played more total minutes last year than Z. With Babs we saw him start to limit Nick's hard minutes and more or less completely remove him from the PK towards the end of his career. Z didn't get many SH minutes last year which is good. He played far too many ES minutes for a guy of his age and how many miles he has on his body at this point.

I think the combo of Blashill having so few quality replacements, the drive to do whatever it takes to keep the playoff streak alive, and Blashill's tendencies to overwork his top players will results in another year of Z being asked to play way too many hard ES minutes.

Sadly I think you're right, especially with Datsyuk gone. If I'm Zetterberg, I'm sure not looking forward to this season.

 

[VM1138]

Fowler doesn't really help us. We've already got a glut of middle pair defensemen. We need a bonafide number 1.

 

[Frk It]

Detroit's 2016/17 Lineup including trading for Cam Fowler.

Detroit Red Wings Cam Fowler+Anaheim's 2017 3rd round pick

Anaheim Ducks Tomas Tatar+Riley Sheahan


Henrik Zetterberg-Dylan Larkin-Justin Abdelkader
Anthony Mantha-Frans Nielsen-Thomas Vanek
Darren Helm-Andreas Athanasiou-Gustav Nyquist
Steve Ott-Luke Glendening-Drew Miller
Tomas Jurco/Martin Frk


Danny DeKeyser-Mike Green
Cam Fowler-Alexi Marchenko
Niklas Kronwall-Jonathon Ericsson
Brendan Smith

Petr Mrazek
Jimmy Howards


LTIR Johan Franzen, Joe Vitale, Teemu Pulkkinen

This lineup looks a little better with both Tatar and Sheahan gone that opens up spots for both Mantha and Athanasiou.

I think Cam Fowler slots above Dekeyser and Green on this team.

Or if you don't think he can play on the top pair, don't bother making the trade to begin with.

 

[Frk It]

Fowler doesn't really help us. We've already got a glut of middle pair defensemen. We need a bonafide number 1.

He's not a middle pairing defenseman, at least he wasn't used that way last year.

 

[jkutswings]

Could you tell us, who are better than him?

Going forward, I'd say Larkin, Nielsen, Tatar, and Nyquist. With a few more passing him in another year or two. Hank has had a great career, and he might even hang in there for one more decent October/November, but overall, the guy looks baked.

 

[Ezekial]

Hank would look realgud on the third line.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

Hank would look realgud on the third line.

I agree babs.

It at least take some of the physical pressure off of him, and maybe with less minutes and wear and tear the Wings can extend his talents.

Guy has the same brain he had at 25, just not the body.

Also, I think in that spot, he can play with the younger guys and mentor them, give them some confidence.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

I think Cam Fowler slots above Dekeyser and Green on this team.

Or if you don't think he can play on the top pair, don't bother making the trade to begin with.

Yeah you're probably right probably should switch DeKeyser and Fowler.

 

[Wood Stick]

Kind of had this idea of running with 3 equal offensve lines.

Tomas Tatar - Dylan Larkin - Justin Abdelkader
Henrik Zetterberg - Riley Sheahan - Gustav Nyquist
Double A - Frans Nielsen - Thomas Vanek
Drew Miller - Luke Glendening - Darren Helm
Steve Ott, Tomas Jurco

 

[Wood Stick]

Why are we acting like Cam Fowler is a number one D? He and DeKeyser really aren't that far off from each other. Both are great skaters though so you put them on seperate pairs though I don't think a trade for a defender is happening.

Fowler is coming off 28 points in 70 games and 34 in 80
Danny DeKeyer is coming off 20 points in 78 games and 31 in 80

DeKeyser is better defenively. I would love Fowler but I don't think he makes this defense great, or even upper level. He's a number 2/3. Offensively Tyler Myers is putting up similar numbers, he too is a number 3 and I think he could be had for A) cheaper and B) probably more available with Winnipeg having Buff and needing to re-sign Trouba.

Danny DeKeyser - Mike Green
Niklas Kronwall - Tyler Myers
Brendan Smith - Alexey Marchenko

Winnipeg needs a LHD and is pretty young. I don't think Xavier Ouellet becomes that great Marc-Andre Vlasic 2.0 that many have been saying for years.

I also really don't want to lose a 25/25 guy in Tomas Tatar or Gus Nyquist. They simply had off years like every other Red Wing besides Dylan Larkin and Alexey Marchenko.

 

[sean3250]

Why are we acting like Cam Fowler is a number one D? He and DeKeyser really aren't that far off from each other. Both are great skaters though so you put them on seperate pairs though I don't think a trade for a defender is happening.

Fowler is coming off 28 points in 70 games and 34 in 80
Danny DeKeyer is coming off 20 points in 78 games and 31 in 80

DeKeyser is better defenively. I would love Fowler but I don't think he makes this defense great, or even upper level. He's a number 2/3. Offensively Tyler Myers is putting up similar numbers, he too is a number 3 and I think he could be had for A) cheaper and B) probably more available with Winnipeg having Buff and needing to re-sign Trouba.

Danny DeKeyser - Mike Green
Niklas Kronwall - Tyler Myers
Brendan Smith - Alexey Marchenko

Winnipeg needs a LHD and is pretty young. I don't think Xavier Ouellet becomes that great Marc-Andre Vlasic 2.0 that many have been saying for years.

I also really don't want to lose a 25/25 guy in Tomas Tatar or Gus Nyquist. They simply had off years like every other Red Wing besides Dylan Larkin and Alexey Marchenko.

Fowler is better than Dekeyser. Fowler would be our best defender and it's only debatable if you are a homer. He's younger and better offensively. He plays on the top pair for Anaheim.

.43PPG vs .32PPG

You can put Fowler on the top line and he will look fine. Dekeyser on the other hand...

Tatar and Gus aren't necessarily 25/25 guys either considering they've only done it for one season. Gus doesn't have the #1PP to inflate his goal totals since he is trash at scoring ES goals. I don't even think he has 25 ES goals the past two years combined. And Tatar isn't playing next to a PPG Datsyuk anymore. Moving one of them for a defender, even if it's a #2 it's still a massive upgrade for this team. Nyquist has shown nothing to prove his contract, and it's best to move him while he has value before he puts up another 40 point season and his value plummets.

 

[Mickey Redmond*]

Nielsen and Larkin on a line together. So much speed.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Nielsen and Larkin on a line together. So much speed.

I don't think that will happen much, if at all. Larkin+Z is a bromance and perfect match.

Larkin, Helm, AA and Nielsen should all be on different lines, a speed threat on each line.

 

[Shaman464]

If we get Fowler, we proably have a problem who plays on which side.

Kronwall prefers Left side.
DeKeyser prefers Left side, we tried him on the right but he sucked like almost every left-handed guy will do.
Fowler prefers left side.

Green on the right.
Marchenko on the right.
Adding Fowler will push Ericsson on the right, where he sucks also. He has been ok on the left, and I want best out of him. No more right side duties and bonehead plays.
Smith, prefers Left, and sucks on right, but probably sucks least of our left side guys. Still a 7th defenceman = trade bait.

It still is:

DeKeyser - X ? (shut-down + 1st Def.Zone pair)
Kronwall - Marchenko (hybrid secondary def-zone + secondary off zone pair)
Ericsson - Green (1st offensive zone pair, when at same time, Ericsson is sheltered and Green used as an advantage with his strength.

Trouba would be the most ideal fit to pair with DeKeyser if I consider there rumoured names. He is a defense first player with offensive skill, not yet to pan out.

Without any trades, we just have to go:

DeKeyser - Ericsson (1st shut-down + 1st def.zone pair)
Kronwall - Marchenko (hybrid secondary option on both ends)
Smith - Green (1st offensive zone pair)
(Ouellet)

And no news is, that Ericsson will get killed again.

Problem is that doing whatever is best for Ericsson isn't going to help this team.

 

[DanZ]

Going forward, I'd say Larkin, Nielsen, Tatar, and Nyquist. With a few more passing him in another year or two. Hank has had a great career, and he might even hang in there for one more decent October/November, but overall, the guy looks baked.

Only Nielsen and Larkin have arguments for being better at this point. Idk what you mean by "going forward" but as of next season Zetterberg is at worst our third best forward.