Salary Cap: 2016-17 Roster Building XXVIII | Trade Deadline Approaches

[drpepper]

Re: Maatta for Duchene seems really unlikely and to be honest unnecessary. The team needs left-handed defenseman more than another $6M forward. I'd also seen a couple of Bogosian for Maatta or E Kane for Maatta neither of which I think is worth it.

I also think Maatta and Dumoulin have had similar seasons except Maatta's playing with the worst defenseman on the team. However, this board seems to be fine with Dumoulin's play and scapegoating Maatta's.

Moving Maatta considering the public statements that the team has made about him, the need on the left-side, how god-awful terrible Daley's been and how that's impacted Maatta, and his injury history seems to be odd - selling at the lowest value - unless the return is unreal. But I guess inside sources say differently?

 

[Ogrezilla]

Maatta has had a worse season than Daley imo. I'd say you have that cause and effect backwards if anything.

And Dumoulin plays a much more difficult role than Maatta. He's playing on our top pair against better opponents, and for more minutes every night.

 

[Penske]

Re: Maatta for Duchene seems really unlikely and to be honest unnecessary. The team needs left-handed defenseman more than another $6M forward. I'd also seen a couple of Bogosian for Maatta or E Kane for Maatta neither of which I think is worth it.

I also think Maatta and Dumoulin have had similar seasons except Maatta's playing with the worst defenseman on the team. However, this board seems to be fine with Dumoulin's play and scapegoating Maatta's.

Moving Maatta considering the public statements that the team has made about him, the need on the left-side, how god-awful terrible Daley's been and how that's impacted Maatta, and his injury history seems to be odd - selling at the lowest value - unless the return is unreal. But I guess inside sources say differently?

I don't think many people have been fine with Dumo's year but he seems better lately. I think Maatta has been good too but I'd deal him in a deal for Duchene.

I think it would make our team better and also the lessen the value loss in expansion.

 

[mpp9]

If Guentzel continues to impress, I think I'm cool with standing pat at forward. Kid's on pace for over 20 goals and 50 points almost all at ES. And he's signed for cheap the next couple years. Duchene isn't worth 10x that.

You can move Maatta in the summer if need be.

 

[ColePens]

Maatta has had a worse season than Daley imo. I'd say you have that cause and effect backwards if anything.

And Dumoulin plays a much more difficult role than Maatta. He's playing on our top pair against better opponents, and for more minutes every night.

If we are talking disappointments this season, I think Maatta is up there. Letang may be my #1, though. I've defended keeping the kid because he is only 22 and went through so much. Expansion and the emergence of Schultz is the one thing that really kills us here. Letang, Schultz, Dumo should be the 3 defenders protected. I would bribe Vegas like hell to not take Maatta, but if he's available.. he's gone. I couldn't imagine how Vegas wouldn't take him in a heartbeat.

I personally do think Maatta will regain form. I think he's still 1-2 years away from regaining form. The user who does nothing but post advanced stats drives me nuts because it's like a computer system over and over again posting instead of a human being who understands the expansion draft, protecting schultz/dumo, and the team's make-up play such a huge role into this discussion.

So blah blah long post, inevitably you cannot simply lose Maatta for free. That's why he's constantly in these trade proposals because it just unfortunately makes sense. If there was no expansion draft, we wouldn't even be throwing him in trade offers and we'd just be hoping he finds his form because he's really struggled a lot this year.

 

[ColePens]

And the whole Dumo argument has to unfortunately be simple. We do not have any player that I can think of in our system who plays a game similar to Dumo. He's our defense version of Hornqvist, IMO. If you had a cheap and easy youngster who played identical to Dumo, then I think we have an easy decision and we could probably bribe Vegas to keep away. But more likely we are losing one of Maatta/Dumo. With the organization's structure, assets, the needs of other teams, etc... it's a no brainer.

 

[drpepper]

Maatta has had a worse season than Daley imo. I'd say you have that cause and effect backwards if anything.

And Dumoulin plays a much more difficult role than Maatta. He's playing on our top pair against better opponents, and for more minutes every night.

What reasons do you think the issue is Maatta and I have it backwards?

Statistics support that Daley is the issue not Maatta. Maatta looks fine away from Daley. Daley is struggling across the board.

Source 1

Source 2

You can check out WOWY yourself on Corisca and hockey analysis


Edit: See also shots allowed with Maatta and shots allowed with Daley notice the shots all coming from the right side.

 

[mpp9]

Maatta regaining his form in a year or two is not a good thing for us. That's the point where our window starts to close. All of our core will be in their thirties.

 

[Cherpak]

Re: Maatta for Duchene seems really unlikely and to be honest unnecessary. The team needs left-handed defenseman more than another $6M forward. I'd also seen a couple of Bogosian for Maatta or E Kane for Maatta neither of which I think is worth it.

I also think Maatta and Dumoulin have had similar seasons except Maatta's playing with the worst defenseman on the team. However, this board seems to be fine with Dumoulin's play and scapegoating Maatta's.

Moving Maatta considering the public statements that the team has made about him, the need on the left-side, how god-awful terrible Daley's been and how that's impacted Maatta, and his injury history seems to be odd - selling at the lowest value - unless the return is unreal. But I guess inside sources say differently?

If the team chooses to go 7-3-1 then you have to choose between Maatta/Dumo/Schultz. Letang is a given to protect. Shultz has shown his worth, especially on the PP. So that leaves Dumo/Maatta. Neither have had a great year but Dumo is what he's expected to be. A solid top 4 defensive Dman. Maatta while his defense hasn't really been much different from Dumo's hasn't yet shown his ability to get back to his offensive game since before the cancer. I think the Penguins may be resigned to the fact that they will never again see it. Who knows maybe he will, but the team can't afford to wait. They are in win now mode. If Maatta as a package gets you Duchene I don't see how JR can turn that down. Beats losing him for nothing at the Expansion draft.

 

[PensandCaps]

I say the pens trade DP for a similar type forward.

Would fiala be of interest?

 

[drpepper]

I don't think many people have been fine with Dumo's year but he seems better lately. I think Maatta has been good too but I'd deal him in a deal for Duchene.

I think it would make our team better and also the lessen the value loss in expansion.

What do you think a good deal for Duchene would be? Because I have seen people throwing around offers of three to four good pieces (Maatta, Jarry, Sprong/Guentzel, 2017 1st), and I think three of those pieces if it includes Maatta is too expensive for an area - forward - that is not a need.

 

[Crosbyfan]

I've said for a while that Mattaa's contract protects Mattaa. It is still an asset IMO, but a small one, and we do need to lose something, just like all the other teams do. Leaving him off is better than exposing 3 extra forwards, at least one of whom would be a greater asset.

 

[drpepper]

If the team chooses to go 7-3-1 then you have to choose between Maatta/Dumo/Schultz. Letang is a given to protect. Shultz has shown his worth, especially on the PP. So that leaves Dumo/Maatta. Neither have had a great year but Dumo is what he's expected to be. A solid top 4 defensive Dman. Maatta while his defense hasn't really been much different from Dumo's hasn't yet shown his ability to get back to his offensive game since before the cancer. I think the Penguins may be resigned to the fact that they will never again see it. Who knows maybe he will, but the team can't afford to wait. They are in win now mode. If Maatta as a package gets you Duchene I don't see how JR can turn that down. Beats losing him for nothing at the Expansion draft.

Maatta has been playing with Daley who has been the Pens worst defenseman, and the Daley-Maatta pairing has been particularly bad for both of them. I'm surprised Maatta has done as well defensively as he has considering how bad Daley is.

What kind of package for Duchene?

 

[mpp9]

Maatta has been playing with Daley who has been the Pens worst defenseman, and the Daley-Maatta pairing has been particularly bad for both of them. I'm surprised Maatta has done as well defensively as he has considering how bad Daley is.

What kind of package for Duchene?

Pretty sure Maatta+Guentzel/Sprong+1st has been mentioned about a million times on here.

 

[Will Hunting]

I am one of the biggest Maatta critics here and don´t like his game at all, but if I have to choose one defenseman benched if we are ever healthy, it would be Daley. Daley is a liability, tbh. Also, Guentzel has to have so much more value than Sprong now. He should be untouchable.

 

[Cherpak]

Maatta has been playing with Daley who has been the Pens worst defenseman, and the Daley-Maatta pairing has been particularly bad for both of them. I'm surprised Maatta has done as well defensively as he has considering how bad Daley is.

What kind of package for Duchene?

I would look at Colorado's needs. Sakic has said he wants a young top 4 defenseman. Thats Maatta. Does he come with some baggage? Absolutely. But I don't see many teams willing to give more than that for 2 1/2 yrs of Duchene until he becomes a UFA. Carolina certainly could with say Faulk but most of the teams that could be after Duchene are probably serious contenders that either don't want to give up a young top 4 or absolutely refuse to. So Maatta would definitely be on the table.

Now lets talk goaltending. Colorado is absolutely dying for it. They have nothing in the pipeline of any near ready talent. Pittsburgh is loaded with it. Jarry is probably ready by next season and is by far the best in the AHL.However, He's not going to unseat Murray and I doubt he wants to sit behind him when he could be a starter. Sakic should insist Jarry is part of the package. Its not going to hurt the Pens especially with their depth at the position.

The draft pick would have to be a 1st obviously. Its a weak draft and the Pens pick is more like a middle 2nd because of it. Thats not going to kill a team in win now mode.

So there you have it. My offer of Maatta, Jarry , and a 1st. I would be inclined to throw in Sprong in place of either Jarry or the pick. Simply because I'm not as convinced that Sprong is a no doubter being he hasn't the NHL track record yet. If Sakic asks for 4 pieces though, I probably walk away.

 

[Nakawick]

Pretty sure Maatta+Guentzel/Sprong+1st has been mentioned about a million times on here.

Guentzel has 2 more years at 700k. I would not move him if we are bringing in Duchense at 6mil for 2 years, Guentzel on his ELC is one of the main reasons Duchense can work cap wise. Would move Sheary ahead of Jake. Sheary is going to be 4-6 times more expensive next year. As above, Maatta, Jarry,1st would be ideal for us.

 

[mpp9]

JR ain't trading Fleury and Jarry. Not gonna happen.

 

[drpepper]

Three pieces seems more reasonable than the four pieces that I had seen bandied about (Maatta, Sprong, Jarry & 2017 1st).

But if I am looking at recent similar but not exact trades:

Larsson for Hall
Seth Jones for Johansen
Kapanen, Harrington, conditional 2016 1st for Kessel (@$6.8M)


Does Maatta, Jarry/Sprong(?), 2017 1st for Duchene seem in line with previous trade costs? If not, is it really a good trade?

 

[Ogrezilla]

Three pieces seems more reasonable than the four pieces that I had seen bandied about (Maatta, Sprong, Jarry & 2017 1st).

But if I am looking at recent similar but not exact trades:

Larsson for Hall
Seth Jones for Johansen
Kapanen, Harrington, conditional 2016 1st for Kessel (@$6.8M)


Does Maatta, Jarry/Sprong(?), 2017 1st for Duchene seem in line with previous trade costs? If not, is it really a good trade?

Those are tough trades to compare to. Larsson and Jones are both better players than Maatta without his laundry list of health factors. I just don't really see these as relevant trades to what we're trying to do. Maatta simply isn't the same tier of player as those guys.

And the Kessel trade is weird because they had basically driven him out of town already, but Kessel had so much control due to his NTC. We would need to beat this package to get Duchene.

I'm not sure how high of a price I'd give them, but yeah, I wouldn't do 4 of those pieces. And I wouldn't do 3 pieces if one is Guentzel at this point.

 

[ColePens]

For the record, I completely think the whole Colorado ship has sailed. That is done and over with.

But drpepper is correct. If Colorado really wanted 4 pieces, just walk away. They are the team who needs a goalie and defender. Have fun going to get that in UFA while your team ends up in lsat place. I'm sure guys will just die to play in Colorado. I think the Avs should be calling JR and figuring out how to get something like a Jarry/Maatta/1st and seal the deal. IMO that's a huge payment for what recently has happened.

 

[MrBrightside]

I'm really not sure why people still talk about Duchene but barely mention Shattenkirk. It really seems like the latter would make a lot more sense, particularly with Daley out.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I'm really not sure why people still talk about Duchene but barely mention Shattenkirk. It really seems like the latter would make a lot more sense, particularly with Daley out.

because Shattenkirk is an expensive rental and Duchene is a guy that can stay for a few years at least.

 

[MrBrightside]

because Shattenkirk is an expensive rental and Duchene is a guy that can stay for a few years at least.

I get that, but because he's a rental, Shattenkirk would cost less, and this team already has 15 NHL forwards (if you count Sundqvist) and we're playing jobbers like Gaunce and Olesky and Ruhwedel on the blueline.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I get that, but because he's a rental, Shattenkirk would cost less, and this team already has 15 NHL forwards (if you count Sundqvist) and we're playing jobbers like Gaunce and Olesky and Ruhwedel on the blueline.

Depends on how much less. I'd hope we're talking to the Blues about it at least. But I expect he'll cost more than we'd want to pay for him. His powerplay ability is going to be a big chunk of what you're paying for, and we don't really need that with Schultz here and since Letang will be in that spot anyway. But for the right cost, absolutely I'd love Shattenkirk.

I still say a 3C is a need that is most likely not going to be addressed. That's where I would expect Duchene to end up for this playoff run at least. I hope Bones can prove me wrong.