Salary Cap: 2016-17 Roster Building XXVI | Goals and Happiness

[pistolpete11]

From the PGT because degen was a meanie and I couldn't think of another thread to go to.



Pronger and Savard aren't going to play again and it's cap manipulation. Horton is done and it was because his contract wasn't insured so Columbus took Clarkson. Teams weren't acquiring players in those trades and it wasn't really trading an injured player, it was trading an essentially retired player.

My point was that injured players can be traded. They were 'retired' but they weren't officially retired.

 

[Riptide]

So here's a question, with the possibility of Duchene coming in, what do we do with Bonino? Possible he's a piece in a trade? Or would they look to run:

Sheary-Sid-Duchene
Guentzel-Malkin-Horny
HBK
Wilson-Cullen-Fehr/whoever

Then Duchene replaces Bones next year?

All depends on what MD potentially cost us, and how we're set cap wise. I could see us both keeping him as center depth to really run the lines or as a trade piece to recoop some assets and cap space. I'd honestly, be fine with either.

Run the following lines when you want to load up the top 6:

Sheary - Crosby - Duchene
Guentzel - Malkin - Kessel
Hagelin - Bonino - Hornqvist
Kunitz - Cullen - Rust

Or this when you want to spread things out:

Sheary - Crosby - Hornqvist/Rust/Hagelin
Guentzel - Malkin - Hornqvist/Rust/Hagelin
Bonino - Duchene - Kessel
Kunitz - Cullen - Hagelin/Rust

 

[Coastal Kev]

If we get Duchene, I won't care.

I just don't understand the appeal of Duchene over Sprong. Right now, I get it, but it will be 2018 or 19 soon enough.

 

[Riptide]

Honestly, (for us) unless it's something around Daley+ I have a hard time seeing this happen. STL is a playoff bound team, and opening up a huge hole on their blueline is going to be hard for them. Perhaps something around this would appease them?

 

[Speaking Moistly]

My point was that injured players can be traded. They were 'retired' but they weren't officially retired.

Well, yeah, but those aren't comparable situations because they didn't have to care about the player after the injury.

 

[Shaftception]

I completely forgot that they could just IR Maatta for the duration of his injury and get cap space back for the trade deadline. This length of injury is honestly near perfect timing if they don't trade him at the deadline.

As long as he doesn't come back before the playoffs start (so just fake he's still injured until the playoffs start, their current projected timeline would put him back with ~5 games left, so just lie), they can keep the extra cap space and gain his services back once the cap no longer counts for the playoffs.

Same thing the Hawks did with Kane's injury the last year they won the Cup. The timing lines up almost exactly. Whether they're sneaky enough to go this somewhat sleazy route is another matter.

 

[Empoleon8771]

How does that make sense? There was speculation that they could be interested in him, but since Maatta is hurt now, their interest in him may change?

 

[Shaftception]

Honestly, (for us) unless it's something around Daley+ I have a hard time seeing this happen. STL is a playoff bound team, and opening up a huge hole on their blueline is going to be hard for them. Perhaps something around this would appease them?

Hope to god not, the package required in return would be significant, and there's no one defensive upgrade that would improve our defensive stats back to what they were for the Cup run. Because it's not the defensive roster that's the primary cause.

 

[hagelin1381]

guess we could LTIR maatta and activate him when the playoffs start to add some cap room.. not sure we'll get anything large back with him being out though

 

[Riptide]

Hope to god not, the package required in return would be significant, and there's no one defensive upgrade that would improve our defensive stats back to what they were for the Cup run. Because it's not the defensive roster that's the primary cause.

Maybe, maybe not. It would all depend on what they really wanted. If they're trying to max out his value, then yeah it would cost a lot and we should stay far away from that. If they're committed to wanting to get an NHL top 4D in return (and for that to work for STL, he needs to be cheap or a pending FA), then that could change things - especially as said players hold value themselves.

Not really holding my breath as I do not see him as a legitimate target.

 

[Rufus]

I pray Yohe is right, he's a cancer that has needed to be removed since 2011. I'm sure there are people on this site that will criticize me for hindsight but I'm pretty sure I called him out for an average at best goalie 6 or 7 years ago. Pouliot, I hope someone is big on him because he was a wasted pick and should be moved while he has any kind of value left. A 23yo D man with his skill set looks like an abomination in the Pens system I find it hard to believe he will be anything anywhere.

That's pretty harsh. Fleury hasn't had that much of a negative effect on this team. Sure, it may be good to have him off the team now, but that has so much to do with his salary and much less about who he is as a person and player.

 

[Rufus]

I know what he means, but Dreger could have said this better.

 

[Headshot77]

Maatta's injury is perfect. We'll just pull a Chicago and LTIR him until game 1 of the playoffs. With our newfound 4 million in cap space we can now acquire a Shattenkirk without having to send cap dollars the other way. And it seem like in today's trade environment, cap relief is more valuable than most picks or prospects.

 

[Dacks]

Maatta's injury is perfect. We'll just pull a Chicago and LTIR him until game 1 of the playoffs. With our newfound 4 million in cap space we can now acquire a Shattenkirk without having to send cap dollars the other way. And it seem like in today's trade environment, cap relief is more valuable than most picks or prospects.

Did any of the other GMs ever complain about that? If we magically "stretch" Maatta's injury into the post-season, and then have him play Game 1, is there any chance of repercussions later? Or, if the doctors say he's ready to play in Game 82 and we don't have the cap space, what are our options?

I like the extra $4 mil in LTIR cap space, but wondering about the ways it could go wrong.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

How does that make sense? There was speculation that they could be interested in him, but since Maatta is hurt now, their interest in him may change?

Yeah that's weirdly worded.

"Hey guys, the Pens were looking to add a defenseman. But now that one of their defensemen got injured and they need defense, they might not be interested in adding a defenseman anymore!"

 

[Sideline]

Yeah, I think the Maatta injury increases the likelihood JR makes a big move. Colorado knows what he is and doesn't care about wins this year. If they wanted him yesterday they still want him today.

If JR was never going to move Maatta he now has $4m of cap room to play with.

Tldr: we about to see some **** go down.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I hope the Avs trade Duchene for Maatta just so I can see their fan base whine about it on the main boards

 

[billybudd]

Engelland is quite a bit better than Wideman, not that I want either of these players particularly.

Wideman's a slapshot with a whole lot of "incompetent" and a side of "refs hate him for good reasons."

Engelland at least knows what he is and does his best to make the most of playing within his limitations.

 

[Captain Hook]

I hope the Avs trade Duchene for Maatta just so I can see their fan base whine about it on the main boards

Yeah, Maatta clearly isn't the guy their fans want but who the fans want is never a factor. This situation reminds me a bit of Dallas fans not wanting Goligoski for Neal and then it actually happened.

 

[Cherpak]

I hope the Avs trade Duchene for Maatta just so I can see their fan base whine about it on the main boards

There are several of them that I want to see cry.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Engelland is quite a bit better than Wideman, not that I want either of these players particularly.

Wideman's a slapshot with a whole lot of "incompetent" and a side of "refs hate him for good reasons."

Engelland at least knows what he is and does his best to make the most of playing within his limitations.

Are both guys rentals? I wouldn't mind Engelland as a 7th defenseman/injury replacement on the bottom pairing. Though I guess his lack of puck movement ability might stand out in this system, but then again they keep playing Oleksy when injuries hit and Oleksy makes Engelland look like Drew Doughty.

Wideman might be an option to replace Schultz's offense if Schultz is out long-term, but Engelland is the safer of the two.

 

[Shady Machine]

Big no from me on Engelland and Wideman. They are plenty of other depth rentals I'd prefer over those 2.

 

[Cherpak]

I just don't understand the appeal of Duchene over Sprong. Right now, I get it, but it will be 2018 or 19 soon enough.

Spoken like a true HFboarder.

 

[ColePens]

Yeah. Out of all the times where a "win now" move would make sense, Duchene (still being young at 26) for a package that is around Sprong is fine by me. I am a believer in Sprong, but ideally you hope Sprong will become Duchene. If Duchene was 30, i'd say hell no. The guy is 26. And the Pens have a host of 22 year olds that look very good right now. So i'm not against that in any way.

Anything older - nupppe.

 

[billybudd]

Wideman can't move the puck any better than Engelland can. His point totals are (barely) higher because of his slapshot and only because of his slapshot. If you want to roll 5 D and use Wideman on the first PP unit just to take slapshots, maybe he would be an option, but that's not us.

Wideman was one of the worst D in the league 3 years ago and he's worse now than he was then.

Big no from me on Engelland and Wideman. They are plenty of other depth rentals I'd prefer over those 2.

I mean, Engelland's probably better than Pouliot, Warsofsky or Gaunce. That's not much, but it is something.