Salary Cap: 2016-17 Roster Building XXII | Only 75 shopping days left till the deadline

[Riptide]

Boy this argument was brought up last year in Kunitz defense, too.
I just hate it. It's not an accomplishment to play the opponent to a draw if your center is called Evgeni Malkin (last year it was Sidney Crosby).
Kunitz had **** tons of years to gain chemistry with both of them. And defensive zone coverage is a lot about knowing each others tendencies.

That's just it - they're not playing to a draw.

In my opinion the only reasonable reason that Guentzel is down at WBS, is that they don't want his bonuses (in addition to Shearys and Murrays) on the book for next year.

Guentzel would not have hit any major bonuses. Maybe a few hundred K at most. He would be challenging Matthews, Murray, Laine, Marner and Nylander (and whomever I'm forgetting) for the Calder. And he's probably not going to finish top 10 in scoring, which means the 2m bonus is out of reach. That leaves 257k at most in performance bonuses. And while he might hit a few of those, it's probably not enough to matter much. The same applies to Sheary and Murray - a max of 257k in performance bonuses - unless MM manages to win the Calder - which is unlikely unless MAF is promptly traded so he can get enough starts to make some noise.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I don't think Letang ever makes great reads on the PP. But he has periods where his speed, strength, and natural talent overwhelm.

I'd be interested in watching all of his PP points of that stretch. I bet a lot of them are on the rush, or on a play where we've gotten out of our standard set formation.

 

[Pancakes]

I don't think Letang ever makes great reads on the PP. But he has periods where his speed, strength, and natural talent overwhelm.

That's fair enough. But success is success. Doesn't have to look intelligent, and with Letang it rarely does

 

[Ogrezilla]

That's fair enough. But success is success. Doesn't have to look intelligent, and with Letang it rarely does

dude is pretty much pure athleticism.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

What does Guentzel need to do to earn his way onto the roster? He's done more than any of Sheary, Rust, Wilson, or Kuhn did to prove they were ready before they got up. And he did more in 5 games than any of them did in a month or two even after they got here. Also, we don't have to throw him straight into the top 6. He'd be a good option in the bottom 6 too.

I agreed with you except lumping Rust into that, Rust has been a great up and down the roster player for us. Especially this year, guy isn't ideal at the top of the line up but he can play on any line and not look horribly out of place. I'd keep him out of this argument. I want JG on the big team too, but I wouldn't point fingers at Rust to make your argument for it.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I agreed with you except lumping Rust into that, Rust has been a great up and down the roster player for us. Especially this year, guy isn't ideal at the top of the line up but he can play on any line and not look horribly out of place. I'd keep him out of this argument. I want JG on the big team too, but I wouldn't point fingers at Rust to make your argument for it.

I'm not saying now. Those guys have all stepped up huge. I wouldn't expect Guentzel to come up and be better than either of Sheary or Rust right now. I'm saying at the time that those guys got NHL spots, they had proven less than Guentzel has. And when they first got here, they did less to prove they deserved to stay. Since then, they've all been great.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Olli's been impressive and i've been waiting for him to play some top teams to really assess.
If he keeps playing like this, JR needs to get a WINGERRRRRRRRRRRR-AHH.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Olli's been impressive and i've been waiting for him to play some top teams to really assess.
If he keeps playing like this, JR needs to get a WINGERRRRRRRRRRRR-AHH.

needs to get rid of Kunitz first. We don't need to replace any of the other wings.

 

[Jacob]

Can the team make roster moves during this bye-week? I would assume so. I figure it'd be smart to send Jarry down to keep getting starts. The baby Pens play Tuesday, Friday and Saturday so he could get 2 starts in and then come back up for Sunday's game against TB.

 

[ColePens]

I would say our major needs right now are a true #7 dman and a rental winger. DP Isnt ready and the AHL guys are solid 8s, but not legit fill ins if the playoffs were going on. Of course we won't get winger help because kunitz has to stay, but I think we will definitely pick up a dman along the way. We need a guy who can compete and fill in when injuries happen. A rental dman would be nice.

I keep fehr as a #13 and try him at center next year. Also flirt with bribing LV to take him.

 

[Riptide]

What does Guentzel need to do to earn his way onto the roster? He's done more than any of Sheary, Rust, Wilson, or Kuhn did to prove they were ready before they got up. And he did more in 5 games than any of them did in a month or two even after they got here. Also, we don't have to throw him straight into the top 6. He'd be a good option in the bottom 6 too.

Not be on the ice for 4 goals in 5 games?

 

[Riptide]

Guentzel > Kunitz. Whatever he adds, the team also gain by subtracting Kunitz. That said, I'm still on record saying the thing I'd like to see JR do is focus on adding a more immediate impact winger to the top nine. I think that can be Guentzel one day, but not yet (some saw that as insulting Guentzel).

Blasphemy. How dare you criticize Guentzel.

 

[Riptide]

Rip, we do have someone better. It was clear when he was up here, it's clear when he's tearing up the AHL, and it'll be clear when he's called up again.

But you won't own your position and admit as much when it inevitably happens by pre-emptively chalking it up to the benefits of added development time, which seems very convenient.

You're right... we do have someone better available to us. Better at getting scored on that is.

 

[Riptide]

What does Guentzel need to do to earn his way onto the roster? He's done more than any of Sheary, Rust, Wilson, or Kuhn did to prove they were ready before they got up. And he did more in 5 games than any of them did in a month or two even after they got here. Also, we don't have to throw him straight into the top 6. He'd be a good option in the bottom 6 too.

No one is going to look at what someone does while shooting almost 40% and see anything sustainable there. If he'd shot 10%, he'd have 1g/1a in 5 games - a very forgettable stat. But because he had 3 goals, everyone goes bonkers over his potential while forgetting the rest of his stats - which include an unsustainable shooting percentage and a brutal goals against average.

In all honestly, I don't think it's a matter of what he does (or doesn't) need to do. While one can legitimately criticize his time here for his poor defensive play, his offensive play was good. He just A) hasn't had the benefit of the team having a bunch of injuries to the starting roster for him to get 40+ games here that Shearu and Rust had and B) happen at a time when he already had the coaches confidence of having played for him before he was hired for the Pens.

 

[JTG]

And the AHL is not where he's going to learn defensive positioning. Guentzel is not playing in a league that's at his level. They are actually better off just keeping him with the big club at this point.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

You're right... we do have someone better available to us. Better at getting scored on that is.

If only Guenztel could put in a Kunitz kind of effort on D...

[NHL2]c-47942603[/NHL2]

 

[Empoleon8771]

Landeskog is available according to Friedman. As much as I'd love to bring him in here, I really doubt the Penguins have the assets to bring him in. It would probably cost Guentzel and Dumoulin/Maatta as the first two pieces and I wouldn't be interested in doing something like that.

 

[Shady Machine]

I would definitely advocate for that and it's not surprising at all. Schultz is really calm back there and doesn't try to do too much.

 

[Shady Machine]

Not be on the ice for 4 goals in 5 games?

Please show your work. Were those goals his fault?

 

[Ogrezilla]

Please show your work. Were those goals his fault?

doesn't matter, GA/60 is bad.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I love how Riptide keeps mentioning how many goals Guentzel was on the ice for in such a small sample size (which is clearly unsustainable but he's acting like it's not), but he keeps saying how Guentzel's goal totals were clearly unsustainable so he basically only had 1 goal and 2 points in 5 games. No bias there at all

 

[Jacob]

We need stats to know Schultz is the superior PPQB?

 

[Ogrezilla]

No one is going to look at what someone does while shooting almost 40% and see anything sustainable there. If he'd shot 10%, he'd have 1g/1a in 5 games - a very forgettable stat. But because he had 3 goals, everyone goes bonkers over his potential while forgetting the rest of his stats - which include an unsustainable shooting percentage and a brutal goals against average.

In all honestly, I don't think it's a matter of what he does (or doesn't) need to do. While one can legitimately criticize his time here for his poor defensive play, his offensive play was good. He just A) hasn't had the benefit of the team having a bunch of injuries to the starting roster for him to get 40+ games here that Shearu and Rust had and B) happen at a time when he already had the coaches confidence of having played for him before he was hired for the Pens.

So why is the goals for stat unsustainable, but the goals against means he isn't NHL ready? You can't even make up your mind in a single post

 

[JTG]

I would definitely advocate for that and it's not surprising at all. Schultz is really calm back there and doesn't try to do too much.

It has been glaring for years, and no one in the organization wants to believe it.

The "Letang is our most talented defenseman" argument is also moot. A player can be talented but not be a good powerplay QB.

Landeskog is available according to Friedman. As much as I'd love to bring him in here, I really doubt the Penguins have the assets to bring him in. It would probably cost Guentzel and Dumoulin/Maatta as the first two pieces and I wouldn't be interested in doing something like that.

The rumor is that they want a young defenseman back, so that's definitely Dumoulin or Maatta.

doesn't matter, GA/60 is bad.

ADVANCED STATZZZ!!!1!!!

A statistic without sample size or basis is just a number. It means nothing. I saw nothing in Guentzel's games here to suggest that he was poor defensively.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The rumor is that they want a young defenseman back, so that's definitely Dumoulin or Maatta.

It was thinking about this and I was going to say that the Penguins wouldn't trade Maatta or Dumoulin. Then I thought about it for a second, if the Penguins got back a defenseman from Colorado (someone like Wiercioch or Zadorov), would they do it? Something like Maatta, Guentzel and another asset for Landeskog and Wiercioch/Zadorov. It's an interesting idea, put Landeskog with Crosby, have Cole-Schultz be the 2nd pair and have Wiercioch/Zadorov-Daley be the bottom pair.