Salary Cap: 2016-17 roster-building part XVIII | Contract/FA charts, cap info in post #1 ‎

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Just to add to the risk factor, one of the biggest changes to the Pens is the overall team culture. I know I sound like a broken record, but bringing him in right now would really be strange because we have so many hungry youngsters who FINALLY feel they have a legit chance of making the team. No more Beau Bennet type guys who had to watch Craig Adams steal 4th line minutes all damn year. The young guys watched their counterparts get real game-changing ice time in the SCP.

So I understand Yak is young, but bringing him in for a spot when you have 4-5 hungry guys fighting for that spot is not good timing. It would be appropriate at the deadline if necessary, but this exact moment is just poisonous to that young group of guys who legit feel like their hard work and determination is paying off.

And remember, this is situational. This exact moment of time, team, situation is very unique. It can all change in one month.

Huh? Seeing how we would have to free up some space to get him, Kunitz or Fehr would probably be gone. If Yak succeeds, we are in the exact same situation as we have now, with Kunitz or Fehr. If he doesn't succeed, our young players get an extra spot to fill the roster. I'd say that it benefits them.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Seeing how I am high on our younger players, I wouldn't mind trading Kunitz. Now, what should we do with the cap we freed up? I'd rather fill that cap space with a 23 year old who still has potential, to an absolute bargain of a price, than anything else I'd say. And if stuff doesn't work out I'd just play the younger players.

I'd rather just hold on to the cap space and only use it if we need it than waste it on Yakupov.

 

[Shady Machine]

Just to add to the risk factor, one of the biggest changes to the Pens is the overall team culture. I know I sound like a broken record, but bringing him in right now would really be strange because we have so many hungry youngsters who FINALLY feel they have a legit chance of making the team. No more Beau Bennet type guys who had to watch Craig Adams steal 4th line minutes all damn year. The young guys watched their counterparts get real game-changing ice time in the SCP.

So I understand Yak is young, but bringing him in for a spot when you have 4-5 hungry guys fighting for that spot is not good timing. It would be appropriate at the deadline if necessary, but this exact moment is just poisonous to that young group of guys who legit feel like their hard work and determination is paying off.

And remember, this is situational. This exact moment of time, team, situation is very unique. It can all change in one month.

Yes to all of this. Very well said Cole.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Is Yak considered a toxic personality?

How strong is "the room" if one guy can upset the apple cart, anyway?

 

[ColePens]

Huh? Seeing how we would have to free up some space to get him, Kunitz or Fehr would probably be gone. If Yak succeeds, we are in the exact same situation as we have now, with Kunitz or Fehr. If he doesn't succeed, our young players get an extra spot to fill the roster. I'd say that it benefits them.

Yep. That's not how it would work at all. Come on. Kunitz could block a trade and realistically the stuff Fehr does fits this team more than what Yak does. Not saying Fehr is great, but he actually does give this team a bit of what we need.

It's not the right time. At all. I can't figure out how anyone would think it is.

 

[Shady Machine]

I'd rather just hold on to the cap space and only use it if we need it than waste it on Yakupov.

In fairness, we don't actually have any cap space. Now, if you mean you'd rather move out Kunitz or Fehr for someone other than Yak, then I agree.

 

[Empoleon8771]

In fairness, we don't actually have any cap space. Now, if you mean you'd rather move out Kunitz or Fehr for someone other than Yak, then I agree.

That's a better way to put it, I'd rather just hold on to Kunitz and then trade him if we need a RW upgrade at the deadline (because realistically that's what the Pens will need if they need anything) instead of prematurely trading Kunitz for Yakupov and not giving our young guys a chance to show they belong.

 

[Winger for Hire]

I'm just finally enjoying the fact that they finally have a camp were every position can be legitimately filled by a player under control by the team.

 

[Shady Machine]

Is Yak considered a toxic personality?

How strong is "the room" if one guy can upset the apple cart, anyway?

It's not about his personality. It's about the optics. These young kids have proven they are ready to take the next step and are earning their spots. Then you bring in Yak and give him preferential treatment over them. That's not a great way to run your team right after some of these guys helped you win the Cup.

Once could argue the same thing happened to Pouliot with Schultz coming in, but that was a deadline move where the org felt Pouliot wasn't ready and they wanted more NHL depth on D. If they brought in Yak at the deadline after evaluating the kids, that's one thing, but doing it now, just seems unnecessary and could potentially send a bad message to the kids. Not one they couldn't and shouldn't get over, but not a great look unless the guy they brought in was a legit upgrade. I'm not convinced Yak is an upgrade over any of them.

 

[Shady Machine]

That's a better way to put it, I'd rather just hold on to Kunitz and then trade him if we need a RW upgrade at the deadline (because realistically that's what the Pens will need if they need anything) instead of prematurely trading Kunitz for Yakupov and not giving our young guys a chance to show they belong.

Completely agree. The time to move Kunitz was at the draft or in free agency, not now, unless a legit upgrade comes back in return.

 

[Winger for Hire]

If you detach the 1OV label from Yak, I don't see how he can be seen as someone you bring in and just plug into a scoring role

 

[ColePens]

If you detach the 1OV label from Yak, I don't see how he can be seen as someone you bring in and just plug into a scoring role

Agreed. I will get ridiculed or this, but I honestly would rather just keep Kunitz this year.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Who said anything about preferential treatment? Who said anything about him not having to earn his chance? The entire idea is predicated on the concept that Yak would be had for quite cheap as an obvious reclamation project. So I would have to think that he would be treated as such.

I'm extremely lukewarm at best about the idea. I don't really think Yak has it in him to achieve even a fraction of the supposed potential he was drafted for. And frankly I don't see any easy/realistic way to free up the space. But for such a low price... it's intriguing. I really, really feel that this team severely lacks goal scoring ability, particularly on the wing. So...

 

[The Greatest 101]

If you detach the 1OV label from Yak, I don't see how he can be seen as someone you bring in and just plug into a scoring role

There was a reason he was 1OV though.

 

[Shady Machine]

Who said anything about preferential treatment? Who said anything about him not having to earn his chance? The entire idea is predicated on the concept that Yak would be had for quite cheap as an obvious reclamation project. So I would have to think that he would be treated as such.

I'm extremely lukewarm at best about the idea. I don't really think Yak has it in him to achieve even a fraction of the supposed potential he was drafted for. And frankly I don't see any easy/realistic way to free up the space. But for such a low price... it's intriguing. I really, really feel that this team severely lacks goal scoring ability, particularly on the wing. So...

Okay I guess we are on the similar wave lengths then (other than disagreeing on the potential of some of our young wingers). I'm not really opposed to it, I'm just not advocating it. Hypothetically, if they moved out Kunitz and brought in Yak, I certainly wouldn't be upset.

 

[Shady Machine]

There was a reason he was 1OV though.

And there's a reason no GM wants to give up a 2nd round pick for him.

 

[Winger for Hire]

There was a reason he was 1OV though.

I know, potential talent ceiling. Which is fine when you're projecting a JR player. But we now have NHL data and game film to go on.

Some players have skill that just doesn't totally translate to the highest level. It's not an unusual phenomena. It happens in every sport.

 

[The Greatest 101]

And there's a reason no GM wants to give up a 2nd round pick for him.

No GM wanted to give up a 2nd for Justin Schultz or Jussi Jokinen as well.

 

[Shady Machine]

No GM wanted to give up a 2nd for Justin Schultz or Jussi Jokinen as well.

No but we gave up a 3rd. According to Dreger, no one was willing to give up that for Yak either. Schultz and Jokinen's issues were also related to higher cap hits. Yak only costs 2.5MM, is much younger than Jokinen was and was a relatively recent 1st overall. It should be at least a little concerning that there isn't a GM right now jumping all over that cheap price. Hell, Beau Bennett was traded for a 3rd and he can barely stay healthy for 10 straight games.

Fair counter points though.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Yep. That's not how it would work at all. Come on. Kunitz could block a trade and realistically the stuff Fehr does fits this team more than what Yak does. Not saying Fehr is great, but he actually does give this team a bit of what we need.

It's not the right time. At all. I can't figure out how anyone would think it is.

I don't think that anybody is suggesting that we should acquire him without shedding some salary, and I think that Kunitz and Fehr are the most realistic choices. Otherwise we wouldn't be discussing this. I guess we could acquire him without letting go of a roster player by letting them retain his salary, but that would be a bad idea considering the reasons you stated.

That said, I'm highly doubting Dreger's credibility here. I highly doubt that the Oilers were ready to ship him out for a third.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I know, potential talent ceiling. Which is fine when you're projecting a JR player. But we now have NHL data and game film to go on.

Some players have skill that just doesn't totally translate to the highest level. It's not an unusual phenomena. It happens in every sport.

This is very true. And likely the case with Yak.

But there are also instances where guys like this end up doing better in a different environment. And/or not achieving what they were drafted for but still rounding into a decent enough players. I'm not at all saying that will be Yak's fate but sometimes it's worth finding out if the price is right.

I get that everyone seems to think this team is suddenly flush with talent. But I simply don't agree.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

I mean .. if Kunitz waived and he and Yak could be swaped straight up .. how do you NOT make that trade? If for nothing more than the cap savings alone.

 

[billybudd]

Turris was a malcontent who would tell anyone who would listen that he didn't want anything to do with Phoenix because of franchise instability. Obviously that's not a feather in his character cap, but it did lend credence to the idea that a change of scenery could help him. Furthermore, Turris was scoring at a higher clip, especially 5 on 5 while being decent to good defensively vs Yakupov's probable "league worst." This all makes him a really bad parallel for Yakupov. He was a better offensive player who was a worlds better defensive player and nobody ever (correctly) questioned Turris' intelligence, only his attitude and commitment.

A better one would be Stan Chistov, another smallish "skilled," high draft pedigree Russian who had a promising rookie season before regressing into something similar, though not quite as awful, as what Yakupov is now.


Far as trading Fehr for Yakupov, idek what to do with that. You lose 5 on 5 offense, defense, versatility, size and add salary for the privilege making your team worse in all of these areas while improving in no areas. This suggestion is inexplicable to me. It's like buying a cavity with a $5 bill.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

Far as trading Fehr for Yakupov, idek what to do with that. You lose 5 on 5 offense, defense, versatility, size and add salary for the privilege making your team worse in all of these areas while improving in no areas. This suggestion is inexplicable to me. It's like buying a cavity with a $5 bill.

Yeah I wouldnt move Fehr for Yak. I have GOT to think that Fehr will be a bit better this year. Perhaps not to the level we all may want to see but a bit better than last year. Which is, already, better than Yak.

But Kunitz? Yeah Id make that trade.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I mean .. if Kunitz waived and he and Yak could be swaped straight up .. how do you NOT make that trade? If for nothing more than the cap savings alone.

Right. And that's what makes it all so unrealistic to begin with.

They aren't trading Kunitz. He's already skating in prominent roles in preseason and camp. And he, as always, was there. And they aren't trading Fehr. Coaches love players like Fehr. And in a lot of ways I can see why.

It all sounds tempting because I think this team could use a little bit more top end talent and finishing ability. But in the end it just doesn't make much sense, especially at the top of the season after just winning a Cup with pretty much exactly this same group. You have to at least give that a long look before you tinker too much. If tinkering was going to happen... it should have already happened.