Salary Cap: 2016-17 roster-building part XVIII | Contract/FA charts, cap info in post #1 ‎

[Winger for Hire]

*demands explanation*
*complains explanations are arrogant*

Doesn't count because you read it somewhere.

 

[Riptide]

Can we move past discussing how intelligent a player is or isn't (not referring to hockey IQ), or how important it is how "right" a poster is or isn't?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Lose offense, get scored on sixty more times a season than you otherwise would have. Probably more, considering Yakupov doesn't know how to play his own position, let alone the opposite wing, which he's no experience with.

People need to get over where Yakupov was drafted and actually watch him. He's one of the very worst players in the NHL and what's wrong with him isn't fixable.

That would be grounds to sit him and cycle through Wilson, Guentzel, Kuhn in the top 6 then, would it not? I'm not sure why you think we'd have to play him on his off-wing either.

Yakupov was drafted 1st overall because he had talent and potential, and he's not so old that he's beyond a shot as a reclamation project. The guy's still younger than each one of Rust, Wilson, Kuhn, and Sheary who only made their debuts last year, and 23 points in 60 games on a garbage team is hardly cut bait production for a 22 year old.

As far as being one of the worst players in the NHL, you may be interested to learn that when Yakupov had the benefit of an elite center in Edmonton, not only did his GF/60 get a huge boost, but so did McDavid's. Fortunately, we have two such elite centers. When your regular center is Mark Letestu, you're probably not going to be tearing up the scoresheet.

As for Kunitz, will you feel he's still a net positive if his presence compels Sully to keep Hornqvist with Malkin as he has in practice?

 

[Coastal Kev]

*demands explanation*
*complains explanations are arrogant*

Saying a kid who is 22 will never EVER improve his hockey IQ is foresight that I just don't have. Maybe you do, we shall see who's right.


I'm just in a bad mood today because I have to evacuate my home to beat the Hurricane....

NOT HAPPY

 

[billybudd]

That would be grounds to sit him and cycle through Wilson, Guentzel, Kuhn in the top 6 then, would it not? I'm not sure why you think we'd have to play him on his off-wing either.

Yakupov was drafted 1st overall because he had talent and potential, and he's not so old that he's beyond a shot as a reclamation project. The guy's still younger than each one of Rust, Wilson, Kuhn, and Sheary who only made their debuts last year, and 23 points in 60 games on a garbage team is hardly cut bait production for a 22 year old.

As far as being one of the worst players in the NHL, you may be interested to learn that when Yakupov had the benefit of an elite center in Edmonton, not only did his GF/60 get a huge boost, but so did McDavid's. Fortunately, we have two such elite centers. When your regular center is Mark Letestu, you're probably not going to be tearing up the scoresheet.

Yakupov was drafted 1st overall because he had talent and potential, and he's not so old that he's beyond a shot as a reclamation project. The guy's still younger than each one of Rust, Wilson, Kuhn, and Sheary who only made their debuts last year, and 23 points in 60 games on a garbage team is hardly cut bait production for a 22 year old.

It's not a matter of age, it's a matter of experience, progression and what, specifically is wrong with the player.

The players you mention have shown progression. Yakupov has not. And what's "wrong" with them isn't what's wrong with Yakupov. Some problems can be worked around. Some can't.

What workaround is there for "sub-varsity understanding of right wing?" What steps has Yakupov taken to remedy this? Are there even any steps to fix this? I can't think of a single guy as bad as he is for the reason he is that ever made anything out of himself. The most-successful was probably Fata, but he wasn't successful at all.

If the Penguins were a last place team in the middle of a rebuild with nothing to lose, or if Yakupov made league minimum and there was a blank spot in the roster that was impossible to fill internally, maybe there would be some degree of logic to claiming him for a few weeks with the intention of waiving him again (Boychuk, Zach).

But that's not the situation. We're a champion that has returned intact. You don't subtract people from the winning mix to play footsies with the worst player on the worst franchise.

As for Kunitz, will you feel he's still a net positive if his presence compels Sully to keep Hornqvist with Malkin as he has in practice?

If the alternative involves allocating $2.5 million and a roster spot to Nail Yakupov, any configuration of our current 10 best wings is a net positive, yes.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

It's not a matter of age, it's a matter of experience, progression and what, specifically is wrong with the player.

Of course it is. Prospect development is rarely linear, and totally writing off any 22 year old who was drafted 1st overall is ridiculous.

The players you mention have shown progression. Yakupov has not. And what's "wrong" with them isn't what's wrong with Yakupov. Some problems can be worked around. Some can't.

So progression for young players is your litmus test.

Can you clarify for me what progression Justin Schultz showed over his Oilers tenure that suggests he would have success here?

Over the years in Edmonton, Schultz confidence was eroded and he wasn't able to perform to his potential. That situation sounds familiar...

What workaround is there for "sub-varsity understanding of right wing?" What steps has Yakupov taken to remedy this? Are there even any steps to fix this? I can't think of a single guy as bad as he is for the reason he is that ever made anything out of himself. The most-successful was probably Fata, but he wasn't successful at all.

Are we just going to ignore Yakupov's success with the only elite center he played with, and the fact that his most frequent center was Letestu?

But that's not the situation. We're a champion that has returned intact. You don't subtract people from the winning mix to play footsies with the worst player on the worst franchise.

Kunitz was indeed there.

If the alternative involves allocating $2.5 million and a roster spot to Nail Yakupov, any configuration of our current 10 best wings is a net positive, yes.

Again, why exactly are we beholden to keep Yakupov on the roster if he didn't perform? That we don't have to - unlike Kunitz - is half the appeal.

I don't understand why you present your argument as though if we traded for Yakupov he would be guaranteed a roster spot for the duration of his contract, when it's clear that if he underperformed we have several other promising, viable young options available.

 

[mpp9]

Yakupov doesn't seem to suffer from a lack of confidence. He doesn't know what he's doing out there.

Let him go to a bottom dweller that's desperate for a one time option from the right circle on the PP. He's not better than what we have right now at ES. Pretty sure a healthy Sprong could just cherry pick all season and be a more viable option when comparing salaries.

I'd sooner trade for a guy like Hansen, and even then I'd wait to see what we have with kids to start the season.

 

[The Greatest 101]

I'm not losing sleep if we don't get Yak,but a bit surprised that people here are so harsh on him,esp after seeing how Schultz did with us last season.

 

[ColePens]

I'm not losing sleep if we don't get Yak,but a bit surprised that people here are so harsh on him,esp after seeing how Schultz did with us last season.

Schultz is the good but we also have a **** load of bad ones, too. We constantly tried to take guys to put them with Sid/Geno and expected magic. It rarely worked.

If the price was super cheap, yes. But we aren't in that position. It's one of those situations that we just don't have to take the gamble. You make a good point, but our situation as of today would not warrant that need. We have the time to be more patient and wait to see if Kunitz has life or the WBS kids can all elevate their game before going that route.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

That would be grounds to sit him and cycle through Wilson, Guentzel, Kuhn in the top 6 then, would it not? I'm not sure why you think we'd have to play him on his off-wing either.

Yakupov was drafted 1st overall because he had talent and potential, and he's not so old that he's beyond a shot as a reclamation project. The guy's still younger than each one of Rust, Wilson, Kuhn, and Sheary who only made their debuts last year, and 23 points in 60 games on a garbage team is hardly cut bait production for a 22 year old.

As far as being one of the worst players in the NHL, you may be interested to learn that when Yakupov had the benefit of an elite center in Edmonton, not only did his GF/60 get a huge boost, but so did McDavid's. Fortunately, we have two such elite centers. When your regular center is Mark Letestu, you're probably not going to be tearing up the scoresheet.

As for Kunitz, will you feel he's still a net positive if his presence compels Sully to keep Hornqvist with Malkin as he has in practice?

I remember when we got Left Winger James Neal and he was ok, then he moved to the right side, a side he has never played on and has been a natural Left winger his entire career, and he turned into a lethal 40 goal scorer and now prefers the right side.

I don't understand the notion that Yak would only work as a RW'er. Rust for example, likes the left side but the team keeps him on the right.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Schultz is the good but we also have a **** load of bad ones, too. We constantly tried to take guys to put them with Sid/Geno and expected magic. It rarely worked.

If the price was super cheap, yes. But we aren't in that position. It's one of those situations that we just don't have to take the gamble. You make a good point, but our situation as of today would not warrant that need. We have the time to be more patient and wait to see if Kunitz has life or the WBS kids can all elevate their game before going that route.

This isn't Boychuk or some other turd that the Pens picked up and tried to polish into a top 6 option. Yakupov, if you've seen Oilers games, has some damn solid finish in him, the problem is he got zero direction, he needed it and definitely did not get it and his agent noticed it too and well the Oilers refuse to ever accept any wrong doing in their lack of development.

Unless you came out of the draft so damn talented that the train wreck that is the Oilers development couldn't ruin you, you were going to struggle and struggle heavily. I don't think Yak is damaged to the point of Paajarvi, but he's getting there if the Oilers don't gift him a career move of moving him off their team.

Yeah Yak comes with a price tag of 2.5m, but that kid isn't some bum. Maybe the team that gets him will show people he was worth the risk, a team that wants to give him some developmental time while monitoring his minutes and giving him another shot.

Yes, exactly like Schultz.

 

[Tender Rip]

Schultz is the good but we also have a **** load of bad ones, too. We constantly tried to take guys to put them with Sid/Geno and expected magic. It rarely worked.

If the price was super cheap, yes. But we aren't in that position. It's one of those situations that we just don't have to take the gamble. You make a good point, but our situation as of today would not warrant that need. We have the time to be more patient and wait to see if Kunitz has life or the WBS kids can all elevate their game before going that route.

Well....there are some hypothesizing that Yak could be waived.... in which case an alternative could be trading them Fehr as a versatile depth player they could actually use. Then we could swing it cap-wise and see if Yak could catch fire with Geno - which is likely the best potential situation he could be in, with Gonch around also to help him cope. If that doesn't work, he would be picked up by someone should we waive him.

As I'd be OK with dropping Fehr for cap-flexibility anyway, that'd seem a very appealing gamble in my book.

Of course, I think someone would definitely offer something better than Fehr.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

I remember when we got Left Winger James Neal and he was ok, then he moved to the right side, a side he has never played on and has been a natural Left winger his entire career, and he turned into a lethal 40 goal scorer and now prefers the right side.

I don't understand the notion that Yak would only work as a RW'er. Rust for example, likes the left side but the team keeps him on the right.

Except that Yak has had to play plenty of LW already.

 

[#66]

Yakupov doesn't seem to suffer from a lack of confidence. He doesn't know what he's doing out there.

Let him go to a bottom dweller that's desperate for a one time option from the right circle on the PP. He's not better than what we have right now at ES. Pretty sure a healthy Sprong could just cherry pick all season and be a more viable option when comparing salaries.

I'd sooner trade for a guy like Hansen, and even then I'd wait to see what we have with kids to start the season.

I think his problem is playing within a system. I actually think he would do well playing in the Pens more active system that pushes ahead rather than soccer BS.

Not a fan of his but I do think he could right some wrongs.

 

[ColePens]

This isn't Boychuk or some other turd that the Pens picked up and tried to polish into a top 6 option. Yakupov, if you've seen Oilers games, has some damn solid finish in him, the problem is he got zero direction, he needed it and definitely did not get it and his agent noticed it too and well the Oilers refuse to ever accept any wrong doing in their lack of development.

Unless you came out of the draft so damn talented that the train wreck that is the Oilers development couldn't ruin you, you were going to struggle and struggle heavily. I don't think Yak is damaged to the point of Paajarvi, but he's getting there if the Oilers don't gift him a career move of moving him off their team.

Yeah Yak comes with a price tag of 2.5m, but that kid isn't some bum. Maybe the team that gets him will show people he was worth the risk, a team that wants to give him some developmental time while monitoring his minutes and giving him another shot.

Yes, exactly like Schultz.

I'm not claiming his career is over or anything like that. The second party of my post was more important. The Pens aren't in that situation right now. If it were last year and we didn't just win the Cup, then I would absolutely want to gamble on the type of player Yak is.

But the Pens just winning the Cup and having their youth look very good in camp is not a position where you make this move. If all the kids start dropping out in the regular season w/ poor production and Yak is unhappy, then you make that move or he hits waivers mid-season.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I remember when we got Left Winger James Neal and he was ok, then he moved to the right side, a side he has never played on and has been a natural Left winger his entire career, and he turned into a lethal 40 goal scorer and now prefers the right side.

I don't understand the notion that Yak would only work as a RW'er. Rust for example, likes the left side but the team keeps him on the right.

That's fair, but I think it's a moot point tbh. We could have an open spot on either of Geno's wings.

I'm not sure why people think we'd have to convert him to LW.

 

[Shady Machine]

The question shouldn't be whether you'd dump Kunitz and pick up Yak (because that just ends up in a weird debate about how good or bad Kunitz is and we've done that enough). To me the question, aside from cap space, is would you bring in Yak and play him over Wilson, Sheary, Rust, or Guentzel. From what I know right now and what I've seen, I'd say the answer is no. These kids are busting their balls and have earned the right to play on this team. Unless we are bringing in a for sure upgrade, there is no reason to sit a kid for another question mark.

 

[AgentM]

I'm not claiming his career is over or anything like that. The second party of my post was more important. The Pens aren't in that situation right now. If it were last year and we didn't just win the Cup, then I would absolutely want to gamble on the type of player Yak is.

But the Pens just winning the Cup and having their youth look very good in camp is not a position where you make this move. If all the kids start dropping out in the regular season w/ poor production and Yak is unhappy, then you make that move or he hits waivers mid-season.

Agree 100%. Odds are everything doesn't click perfectly like last season but it's not time to make a change right now. Maybe the young wingers improve as a group offensively but our team defense thatw worked so well last year needs upgrading instead and we need the flexibility to do so in the spring.

 

[Coastal Kev]

I'm not claiming his career is over or anything like that. The second party of my post was more important. The Pens aren't in that situation right now. If it were last year and we didn't just win the Cup, then I would absolutely want to gamble on the type of player Yak is.

But the Pens just winning the Cup and having their youth look very good in camp is not a position where you make this move. If all the kids start dropping out in the regular season w/ poor production and Yak is unhappy, then you make that move or he hits waivers mid-season.

I disagree, since the Pens won the Cup, they are in a perfect position to gamble. They are already playing with house money, you might as well use it.

 

[Epic Neal Time]

Eh. Don't see a need for Yak.

2017-2018
Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist
Hagelin-Malkin-Kessel
Wilson-Bonino-Sprong
Kuhnhackl-Sundqvist-Rust

 

[Shady Machine]

I disagree, since the Pens won the Cup, they are in a perfect position to gamble. They are already playing with house money, you might as well use it.

Who would you trade to open up cap space for Yakupov and who would you sit to play him?

 

[JTG]

Switching wings isn't an impossible thing to do...it's just very awkward at first. Imagine writing with your opposite hand - everything feels backwards and disconnected. It's the same feeling going from one side of center to the other. By no means impossible, but it's not something that typically just clicks immediately.

 

[ColePens]

I 100000% disagree with your reasoning Pghkev. You don't just gamble to gamble. That's a very poor way of thinking. A few things are really working in our favor. Our situation is very unique. I think we are the #1 team in the salary cap era for roster retention after winning the Cup. And we did it without giving contracts to average players. We also hit training camp hard with a lot of youth looking hungry and very near NHL ready. If any spots open up, it looks like we have 3-4 guys who want to bust down the door and take them. Wilson, Guentzel, Simon, and we aren't even talking about the injured ones such as OS, DiPauli, etc. This is not your normal post-Stanley Cup winning team. We are in a very good position to be a favorite again. Changing the dynamic now, just for the sake of gambling, isn't a good move for a culture that has just changed in such a good way.

So that puts us in a unique situation. I think we all have a reasonable slight concern with the normalcy of an individual not playing as well as last year (Kuhn, Rust, Sheary, etc) AND we do not want to see this team get stagnant since no new blood has been brought in. That's 100% fair. But in our current unique situation, it's not time to gamble. If a spot opens up, I believe Wilson is a deserving candidate. If all of our youth flames out, then we can revisit this situation.

We aren't a good fit for Yak, either. For a guy struggling to find his game, why would he want to come here with a log jam of wingers ready to pounce on an opportunity? And he will get zero powerplay time. At this time, it's just not the right move in any way. Can it be re-visited? Absolutely.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Like it was said earlier, if Yak was a certain upgrade in a spot, then sure, you gamble (I guess at that point he wouldn't be a gamble though). But as it stands, unless he suddenly does a complete 180, he's press box fodder for probably 90% of games.

He has to come in and learn a new system, and he's shown to not be able to grasp systems too quickly and the Pens' success has been from each line/player buying into and executing Sullivan's system almost perfectly.

His talent is great, but he'd be way behind the learning curve coming in here. Just look at JR's TPT article when he mentioned how hard it is for a new player to come into a Cup winning team. Yak had a hard time fitting into a team with zero expectations, I can't see him just suddenly fitting into a team like the Pens.

 

[The Greatest 101]

What's with all the Scott Wilson love around here? I mean,I haven't watched any preseason game.Do I miss something?