Salary Cap: 2016-17 roster-building part XVII | Contract/FA charts, cap info in post #1 ‎

[Big McLargehuge]

I'd only trade fehr for a decent return, not just to clear the spot.

Same. He's overpaid for the role he'll play, but I don't think he's overpaid at all for the type of player he is. The fact that we have him lower in the line-up than he's paid for should be seen as a good thing, and not a reason to sell him off at the first opportunity.

We also have enough guys on ELCs littered throughout that having an expensive fourth liner is a luxury that we can actually afford, especially since injuries will eventually happen and having a guy like Fehr provides good depth.

Mind you I also think he's a better player than he showed last year. Off-season elbow surgery that delays your debut until a month into the season is never ideal, and then the coaching change happening about a month later meaning he was on his third coach in a ~20 game window...it's no wonder he didn't hit the ground running.

 

[ColePens]

I sort-of want to see Fehr fully healthy, first, before dumping him. He really elevated his game late in the postseason. I thought he was good, personally, after being very invisible early.

 

[Jacob]

I sort-of want to see Fehr fully healthy, first, before dumping him. He really elevated his game late in the postseason. I thought he was good, personally, after being very invisible early.

Same here. The year before we signed him he had 17 ES goals, that'd be sufficient for a support role on a line with Malkin.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Been saying Pouliot played RD in his last WHL playoffs for awhile, but now there's confirmation from the man himself that he can play either side:

One variable that could help Pouliot earn a spot in the lineup is potentially playing on the right side, despite being a left-handed shot.

The Penguins have typically preferred to keep players on their natural sides, but Trevor Daley has played offhand for them, and Pouliot said he played extensively on the right side in his junior career.

“It’s something I’m comfortable with, and, if it’s a spot I could fit in, that’d be great,” he said.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Ryan-Wilson/Derrick-Pouliot-Reveals-Position-Flexibility/177/79109

 

[Empoleon8771]

Been saying Pouliot played RD in his last WHL playoffs for awhile, but now there's confirmation from the man himself that he can play either side:



http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Ryan-Wilson/Derrick-Pouliot-Reveals-Position-Flexibility/177/79109

Can't Cole play RD too? They won't really have an excuse to not play Pouliot if he's playing well, both Cole and Pouliot can play either side.

I think they should be playing Pouliot exclusively at RD though, groom him to be Daley's replacement.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Disagree. Cullen was good when he had Kuhnhackl and Rust on his wings, and he was good when he was centering Hagelin and Kessel. One can make an argument for keeping or moving Fehr... but none of it has anything to do with Cullen. And I certainly do not think that Fehr was a "big part" of anything Cullen did other than perhaps on the PK.



Agreed. IF all was right in the world, it would be Kunitz and Fehr battling over that last spot with the other sitting - assuming the kids do as we hope they well and Kunitz and Fehr don't do much better than last season. And while we saw Lovejoy as a HS down the stretch due to how well everyone was playing, I have a hard time seeing Kunitz or Fehr in the same situation.

I do think fehr is a better player than he showed last year, at least if he is healthy. He's spent most of his career playing 3rd line caliber hockey.

 

[SEALBound]

Been saying Pouliot played RD in his last WHL playoffs for awhile, but now there's confirmation from the man himself that he can play either side:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Ryan-Wilson/Derrick-Pouliot-Reveals-Position-Flexibility/177/79109

Being able to play either side and be able to play either side well are two different things. Not saying he never will but if Pouliot wants to maintain a spot on the roster, RD is where to do it. He needs to do it and do it well. There's little room for error with him. He's getting down to the wire IMHO.

TIOPS sucks yes but it's the only bit of Pens rumors we've heard all summer...so I'll take it. Wonder if we could somehow finagle Fehr for Zucker.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Can't Cole play RD too? They won't really have an excuse to not play Pouliot if he's playing well, both Cole and Pouliot can play either side.

I think they should be playing Pouliot exclusively at RD though, groom him to be Daley's replacement.

If im not mistaken, I think Cole actually prefers the right side. He was on the right when he played with pouliot last year. Though I would try DP on the right just because that's where we would likely want him long term if he can take Daley's spot some day.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Being able to play either side and be able to play either side well are two different things. Not saying he never will but if Pouliot wants to maintain a spot on the roster, RD is where to do it. He needs to do it and do it well. There's little room for error with him. He's getting down to the wire IMHO.

Well, like I said, he did it in a playoff run where he scored 32 points in 21 games as a full-menu defenseman anchoring a WHL Finals team, so it can be argued he played as well on his right side as he ever did in his junior career.

All that's left is for it to be tried in the NHL.

Can't Cole play RD too? They won't really have an excuse to not play Pouliot if he's playing well, both Cole and Pouliot can play either side.

I think they should be playing Pouliot exclusively at RD though, groom him to be Daley's replacement.

They should be playing him there with that in mind, for sure.

 

[SEALBound]

Well, like I said, he did it in a playoff run where he scored 32 points in 21 games as a full-menu defenseman anchoring a WHL Finals team, so it can be argued he played as well on his right side as he ever did in his junior career.

All that's left is for it to be tried in the NHL.



They should be playing him there with that in mind, for sure.

Not that I disagree, but big difference between the WHL and NHL as we are well aware of.

Agree though about being Daley's replacement.

 

[plaidchuck]

Not saying this applies to Pouliot, but pedigree and potential only go so far. You eventually have to do the durned thing and make that jump. So if he can't beat out someone like Cole, then that's on him, not the Pens.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Would anybody be surprised if JR gave Bonino an extension some time before the expansion draft, just to use him as bait?

 

[Gurglesons]

Not saying this applies to Pouliot, but pedigree and potential only go so far. You eventually have to do the durned thing and make that jump. So if he can't beat out someone like Cole, then that's on him, not the Pens.

Sounds like the argument against Despres.

 

[Riptide]

Would anybody be surprised if JR gave Bonino an extension some time before the expansion draft, just to use him as bait?

I almost think he'll ask Bonino if he'd wait until after the expansion draft to give him an extension. But he could do it before hand if NB agree's to something that's too good to pass on. Zero chance I see him getting used as trade bait.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Would anybody be surprised if JR gave Bonino an extension some time before the expansion draft, just to use him as bait?

No, neither side would be interested in doing that. If the Pens are going to re-sign Bonino, it will be after the expansion draft. They won't agree on a deal before the season because the Pens want to pay him based on his regular season and Bonino wants to be paid based on his playoffs. They won't agree on a deal before the expansion draft because I doubt the Penguins would want to lose Bonino to the expansion draft if they're re-signing him and Bonino probably wants to have the choice on whether he'd play for Vegas or not.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

I just suggested it as an option, since we seem to be speaking about Pouliot long term here, even though I find it hard for LV not to take him.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Here's why Vegas won't be taking Pouliot:

Anaheim defensemen: Vatanen, Fowler, Lindholm, Despres and Manson
Columbus defensemen: Johnson, Jones, Savard and Murray
Minnesota defensemen: Suter, Spurgeon, Brodin, Scandella and Dumba
Nashville defensemen: Josi, Subban, Ekholm and Ellis
Islanders defensemen: Boychuk, Leddy, de Hann, Hamonic and Hickey
Sharks defensemen: Burns (UFA), Vlasic, Martin, Braun and Dillon
Panthers defensemen: Yandle, Demers, Ekblad and Pysyk

That's why Pouliot isn't going to get drafted, each of those teams is in danger of losing one of those guys. Pouliot won't get picked because Vegas can get better defensemen than Pouliot from those other teams. I didn't include the Blue Jackets either, who may lose Savard or Jack Johnson, because I'm not sure if they'd lose a forward or a defensemen. Now, if Pouliot could be sent down to the AHL in 2017-2018, I would say he'd almost definitely get picked, but unless Pouliot explodes this year, he's not likely to be drafted. Realistically, I think the Penguins are going to be losing Hagelin or one of the young forwards.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Not that I disagree, but big difference between the WHL and NHL as we are well aware of.

Agree though about being Daley's replacement.

DP's got a lot to prove on both sides in the NHL.

Not saying this applies to Pouliot, but pedigree and potential only go so far. You eventually have to do the durned thing and make that jump. So if he can't beat out someone like Cole, then that's on him, not the Pens.

Yep. But the Pens would be shortchanging themselves if they didn't give him every opportunity to make maximize that pedigree and potential.

 

[66-30-33]

Here's why Vegas won't be taking Pouliot:

Anaheim defensemen: Vatanen, Fowler, Lindholm, Despres and Manson
Columbus defensemen: Johnson, Jones, Savard and Murray
Minnesota defensemen: Suter, Spurgeon, Brodin, Scandella and Dumba
Nashville defensemen: Josi, Subban, Ekholm and Ellis
Islanders defensemen: Boychuk, Leddy, de Hann, Hamonic and Hickey
Sharks defensemen: Burns (UFA), Vlasic, Martin, Braun and Dillon
Panthers defensemen: Yandle, Demers, Ekblad and Pysyk

That's why Pouliot isn't going to get drafted, each of those teams is in danger of losing one of those guys. Pouliot won't get picked because Vegas can get better defensemen than Pouliot from those other teams. I didn't include the Blue Jackets either, who may lose Savard or Jack Johnson, because I'm not sure if they'd lose a forward or a defensemen. Now, if Pouliot could be sent down to the AHL in 2017-2018, I would say he'd almost definitely get picked, but unless Pouliot explodes this year, he's not likely to be drafted. Realistically, I think the Penguins are going to be losing Hagelin or one of the young forwards.

Geez that Vegas defense is gonna be pretty decent.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Sounds like the argument against Despres.

Except despres outplayed guys getting ice time ahead of him, dp hasn't.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Geez that Vegas defense is gonna be pretty decent.

Yeah, their defense will likely end up something like:

Savard-Spurgeon
de Hann-Braun
TVR-Pysyk
Manson

They could also grab some guys like Koekkoek, Gudbranson, Schmidt, Stone, Ekholm and Enstrom. While that team doesn't have a true #1, they have 5 top-4 defensemen and 2 young guys who could easily end up top-4 defensemen really soon. That team is going to have an insane defense along with numerous other opportunities to get prospects like Pouliot. Just a couple examples of young prospects like Pouliot who will likely be available in the expansion draft include Murphy from Carolina, Pulock from NYI, Lindell from Dallas, Dumba from Minnesota, Koekkoek from Tampa Bay, Pokka from the Hawks and Orlov from the Capitals. Just looking at young defensemen overall, you could add Mueller from the Sharks, Schmidt from the Capitals, Reinhart from the Oilers, McCabe from the Sabres, TVR from the Hawks and McNabb from the Kings.

So essentially, the new Vegas team will have literally a ton of opportunities to get good defensemen and good young defensemen, so I don't think the risk of Pouliot getting taken is that high unless he has a breakout year. Pouliot being exposed is no more eye catching than Pokka, Koekkoek, Reinhart or Mueller being exposed to the expansion draft. Pouliot not being waiver ineligible for 2017 may be the sole thing that keeps him here, the new Vegas team wouldn't pick Pouliot (over someone like Sheary or Rust) for him to play as the 7th defensemen IMO, it wouldn't be a smart decision considering who else will be available. He'll either break out and we'll protect him (likely losing Hagelin, Sheary, Rust or Daley) or he'll fail to establish himself again and he'll just get passed over for a young AHL eligible defensemen.

 

[Fordy]

Except despres outplayed guys getting ice time ahead of him, dp hasn't.

he hasn't? dp's last regular season games were much better than major stretches of both cole and lovejoy's play that season, and schultz was only showing up at that point

 

[SEALBound]

Would anybody be surprised if JR gave Bonino an extension some time before the expansion draft, just to use him as bait?

If I'm a betting man, I say Bonino is the top target for resigning some Jan 1st. But that's just me...

Here's why Vegas won't be taking Pouliot:

Anaheim defensemen: Vatanen, Fowler, Lindholm, Despres and Manson
Columbus defensemen: Johnson, Jones, Savard and Murray
Minnesota defensemen: Suter, Spurgeon, Brodin, Scandella and Dumba
Nashville defensemen: Josi, Subban, Ekholm and Ellis
Islanders defensemen: Boychuk, Leddy, de Hann, Hamonic and Hickey
Sharks defensemen: Burns (UFA), Vlasic, Martin, Braun and Dillon
Panthers defensemen: Yandle, Demers, Ekblad and Pysyk

That's why Pouliot isn't going to get drafted, each of those teams is in danger of losing one of those guys. Pouliot won't get picked because Vegas can get better defensemen than Pouliot from those other teams. I didn't include the Blue Jackets either, who may lose Savard or Jack Johnson, because I'm not sure if they'd lose a forward or a defensemen. Now, if Pouliot could be sent down to the AHL in 2017-2018, I would say he'd almost definitely get picked, but unless Pouliot explodes this year, he's not likely to be drafted. Realistically, I think the Penguins are going to be losing Hagelin or one of the young forwards.

Indeed. One option for Vegas to do is take a **** top of top 4 dmen, pick who they want, then trade the others for forwards they want/need. Course, Ray Shero isn't the LVGM but...with the quantity of quality players in the draft...it's certainly hard to pass some of them up.

Still think Fehr is a good option for Vegas. You need bottom 6 guys, he's not over the hill, is a C and W, and on a good contract.

Geez that Vegas defense is gonna be pretty decent.

Unless several teams trade those extra dmen. The weeks leading up to the draft are gonna be insane. I expect a lot of movement at the TDL this year too.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Indeed. One option for Vegas to do is take a **** top of top 4 dmen, pick who they want, then trade the others for forwards they want/need. Course, Ray Shero isn't the LVGM but...with the quantity of quality players in the draft...it's certainly hard to pass some of them up.

That's a good idea in theory, but what if you can't find teams who are willing to do that? In most cases, they'll probably go with a 4th defensemen over a 8th forward, but they can't do that all of the time. They'll definitely do that some, but not to the point where they'll have 8 or 9 top-4 defensemen. My guess is they'll top out at 6 top-4 defensemen and trade 2 or 3 of them for wingers. They'll probably pick some right handed puck movers, like Ryan Ellis, and they'll immediately use them as trade bait.

Still think Fehr is a good option for Vegas. You need bottom 6 guys, he's not over the hill, is a C and W, and on a good contract.

I was talking to it with my Islanders fan roommate, and he seems to think that the Penguins will be losing Sheary. It makes sense if you think about it. Sheary doesn't really have a spot on the Penguins long term IMO, he's not needed at RW and I don't know if he'd fit anywhere outside of Crosby's LW (which is Wilson's long term IMO). He's a guy who's primed to have a good year, since he'll be given the first crack on Crosby's LW. If he does have a good year, wouldn't it be logical to dangle him in front of Vegas? If the Penguins leave Sheary, Pouliot, Kuhnhackl, Cole, Schultz and Fehr (7F protected) available for the expansion draft, wouldn't Sheary be the logical one to take there? If they leave Hagelin, Bonino, Rust, Sheary, Kuhnhackl, Cole, Schultz and Fehr (4D protected) available for the expansion draft, would the expansion team take a 7x as expensive Hagelin instead of Sheary?

 

[Riptide]

No, neither side would be interested in doing that. If the Pens are going to re-sign Bonino, it will be after the expansion draft. They won't agree on a deal before the season because the Pens want to pay him based on his regular season and Bonino wants to be paid based on his playoffs. They won't agree on a deal before the expansion draft because I doubt the Penguins would want to lose Bonino to the expansion draft if they're re-signing him and Bonino probably wants to have the choice on whether he'd play for Vegas or not.

Maybe, maybe not. It takes two parties to sign a deal. While it makes the most sense for PIT to sign a deal after the draft but before July 1st, but for Bonino, there's a huge risk for him to wait 6+ months before signing a contract. What happens if he hurts himself or has a career ending injury? The contract that he might have signed won't be there in June. So yeah I can see it happening either way, and neither would surprise me.