Salary Cap: 2016-17 roster-building part XVII | Contract/FA charts, cap info in post #1 ‎

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Freeptop

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Kessel's recovering from hand surgery, while Crosby, Malkin, Hagelin, Hornqvist, Maatta and Murray are all playing in the World Cup.

So, I hope the Pens bring in Versteeg and Tanguay and anyone else whom they can agree to come in on PTOs so that they can fill the veteran minimums for pre-season game rosters.

Don't sign any of them to contracts, just bring them in on PTOs. Granted, they're only motivation to agree is that doing so will at least give them a chance to show that they can play, and hopefully earn a contract elsewhere once injuries hit.

But that's just me.
 

Shady Machine

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Kessel's recovering from hand surgery, while Crosby, Malkin, Hagelin, Hornqvist, Maatta and Murray are all playing in the World Cup.

So, I hope the Pens bring in Versteeg and Tanguay and anyone else whom they can agree to come in on PTOs so that they can fill the veteran minimums for pre-season game rosters.

Don't sign any of them to contracts, just bring them in on PTOs. Granted, they're only motivation to agree is that doing so will at least give them a chance to show that they can play, and hopefully earn a contract elsewhere once injuries hit.

But that's just me.

That's a good point. I would be fine with bringing in some vets on PTOs just for camp competition while the World Cup crew is out.
 

Shady Machine

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I sure hope so.

I don't know nearly as much about this coach and how he truly feels about the lineup as everyone else seems to.

:laugh: Yeah we probably assume too much around here. A full season is different than a hot streak down the stretch and into the playoffs. I suspect (just making it up) he will be more willing to change things up during the ebbs and flows of an 82 game regular season.
 

Riptide

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Agreed. Bottom line though, we have no need for Versteeg or Tanguay period. They offer little if anything over Kunitz and Kunitz is looking mighty awful already.

We don't need to sign every random free agent that randomly becomes relevant again.

Perhaps, but I would really not be comfortable with us needing 3 of our kids to play top 9 roles when everyone is healthy. Which is why I'd want another established NHL player here if we were to move Kunitz/Fehr. This isn't because I think either will be amazing options for us as top 9 wingers, but because I'm not really comfortable with putting ourselves in a position where 3 of our kids have to be top 9 wingers next season.

This is where moving Kunitz/Fehr and assuming we didn't get a body back who's an NHLer, signing someone like Versteeg/Tanguay makes sense. Are they the best options? No, probably not. But I think they (or someone similar) puts us in a much better position to repeat then going with 3 of the kids in the top 9. I mean we're already needing at least 1, likely 2 of them playing in the top 9, and another one or two on the 4th line. I'm good with that.
 

SEALBound

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Perhaps, but I would really not be comfortable with us needing 3 of our kids to play top 9 roles when everyone is healthy. Which is why I'd want another established NHL player here if we were to move Kunitz/Fehr. This isn't because I think either will be amazing options for us as top 9 wingers, but because I'm not really comfortable with putting ourselves in a position where 3 of our kids have to be top 9 wingers next season.

This is where moving Kunitz/Fehr and assuming we didn't get a body back who's an NHLer, signing someone like Versteeg/Tanguay makes sense. Are they the best options? No, probably not. But I think they (or someone similar) puts us in a much better position to repeat then going with 3 of the kids in the top 9. I mean we're already needing at least 1, likely 2 of them playing in the top 9, and another one or two on the 4th line. I'm good with that.

It's not without risk, I admit that. But we have a lot of kids and it's early in the season. I'd rather give them the nod. Rotate through them if we need. But that's how the kids learn and grow.
 

Riptide

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It's not without risk, I admit that. But we have a lot of kids and it's early in the season. I'd rather give them the nod. Rotate through them if we need. But that's how the kids learn and grow.

They'll get their time just based off the injuries we have every year. I don't really see the need to force things when healthy.
 

WhatsaMaatta

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Kessel's recovering from hand surgery, while Crosby, Malkin, Hagelin, Hornqvist, Maatta and Murray are all playing in the World Cup.

So, I hope the Pens bring in Versteeg and Tanguay and anyone else whom they can agree to come in on PTOs so that they can fill the veteran minimums for pre-season game rosters.

Don't sign any of them to contracts, just bring them in on PTOs. Granted, they're only motivation to agree is that doing so will at least give them a chance to show that they can play, and hopefully earn a contract elsewhere once injuries hit.

But that's just me.

I understand where you're coming from with wanting that security of proven scorers to help fill out the wings, but I think that the Pens would be better off with the young players they have.

I haven't been following HF during the offseason, so I might be late to the party, but my perception of guys like Sheary and Rust has changed since even the Cup win. I've been rewatching the playoff run, and Sheary, in my opinion, definitely has a place on this team and is a long term solution for the top 2 lines so long as Crosby and Malkin are concerned. He's fast, hungry, and has a very good shot. This is going to open up space for Crosby and Malkin and give them another scoring threat to go to. He has the potential to be a 40 point guy who can be relied on to score some big goals. Yeah, he got pushed around deeper into the playoffs because of his size, but this was his first NHL season. I believe there is way more upside and less risk with a guy like Sheary than Tanguay or any other over the hill veteran.
 

WayneSid9987

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Versteeg's gonna be on a PTO with the Oilers.
Whats Brad Boyes doing?
Perhaps we can get him in here on a PTO.
Him letting Horny, Hagelin, etc. rest up a bit during the pre-season isn't a terrible thing.
I'm surprised JR hasn't gotten a guy already knowing all the players we have in the WCOH.
 

Paulie Gualtieri

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Versteeg's gonna be on a PTO with the Oilers.
Whats Brad Boyes doing?
Perhaps we can get him in here on a PTO.
Him letting Horny, Hagelin, etc. rest up a bit during the pre-season isn't a terrible thing.
I'm surprised JR hasn't gotten a guy already knowing all the players we have in the WCOH.

I forgot about Boyes. Tanguay would be the better player, but I'd be surprised if he settles with a PTO, which is the only thing I'd give to begin with. Giving Boyes a PTO could be some decent insurance.
 

RxPens

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Hopefully Pouliot and Schultz play well enough to push Cole out of the lineup.


One of them are going to have to pick up some slack on the PK then, because we surely won't be taxing our top 4 with all of the PK and PP minutes... on top of their ES minutes. TBH I didn't mind Cole's game throughout the playoffs. Fits a third pair well... and had he not been played completely over his head as Letang's partner to start the season, I don't think we would have seen that mid-season drop off in his play.
 

WayneSid9987

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The more young D that impress the better.
The 1 or 2 that get boxed out can then be used in trades.

So bring it on.
Hope they all look good. Schultz, Pooh, Bengtsson, etc.
I want an Anaheim type of situation.
"I can't handle all deez good defensmanz!"
 

Riptide

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Two interesting things this mentioned.

THW said:
Of course, nothing is set in stone. With the Penguins operating so close to the salary cap, Pouliot could actually make Cole expendable by proving he’s ready for full-time NHL duties. Cole is tradable and if I had to guess, I’d say he’s the first name Rutherford would look to move if they needed to send a defenseman elsewhere.

I won’t call this a make-or-break season but it’s darn close.
The Penguins want more from their highly touted defensive prospect and if he doesn’t deliver, he may have to start over with another organization. That may or may not be the best option for the youngster, as a fresh start isn’t necessarily a bad thing. His place on Pittsburgh’s future blue line is there for the taking. Now, it’s up to him to capitalize.

I know JR said something similar, but I do not agree with this. Pittsburgh is going to have some decisions to make next season, and if somehow both Schultz and Pouliot are still around after the expansion draft (say one of the Fs is drafted), PIT will still have to decide what to do with Daley. Unless he takes a sweetheart deal (2x4.5m), odds are he's gone - which means there's a prime chance for Pouliot to get back into the lineup as a regular. Even if it's just on the bottom pairing. I think once he's in regularly, he'll be fine. He'll still need to push himself, but I think we'll see something similar as we did with Dumoulin (even if he doesn't go that high that quickly).

As for that part of moving Cole, while I agree he is completely tradeable... I highly doubt that Rutherford would move him over say Fehr if he's looking/needing 2m in cap space. I think we'd see Cole as a HS well before he's traded. The only way that changes is if DP and JS are still here in July, and both excelled this year and Daley resigns. But until then... I doubt Cole is going anywhere anytime soon - especially after losing Lovejoy this summer. Cole will be heavily leaned upon for the PK and for his physical presence.

***

Kind of an off the wall question. How easily could Pouliot transition to LW? Should it even be something worth discussing? I mean clearly if that's the plan, hindsight says we should have just drafted FF (one doesn't need hindsight for that). But living in the current reality... is this something that the team should at least consider?

There's no question the kid is gifted offensively. And while he wouldn't be an ideal winger for us... there are some intriguing options that open up if that move was attempted. Being able to hide him from the draft and if it works, potentially finding another young offensive LW for us...
 
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Dipsy Doodle

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Two interesting things this mentioned.



I know JR said something similar, but I do not agree with this. Pittsburgh is going to have some decisions to make next season, and if somehow both Schultz and Pouliot are still around after the expansion draft (say one of the Fs is drafted), PIT will still have to decide what to do with Daley. Unless he takes a sweetheart deal (2x4.5m), odds are he's gone - which means there's a prime chance for Pouliot to get back into the lineup as a regular. Even if it's just on the bottom pairing. I think once he's in regularly, he'll be fine. He'll still need to push himself, but I think we'll see something similar as we did with Dumoulin (even if he doesn't go that high that quickly).

As for that part of moving Cole, while I agree he is completely tradeable... I highly doubt that Rutherford would move him over say Fehr if he's looking/needing 2m in cap space. I think we'd see Cole as a HS well before he's traded. The only way that changes is if DP and JS are still here in July, and both excelled this year and Daley resigns. But until then... I doubt Cole is going anywhere anytime soon - especially after losing Lovejoy this summer. Cole will be heavily leaned upon for the PK and for his physical presence.

***

Kind of an off the wall question. How easily could Pouliot transition to LW? Should it even be something worth discussing? I mean clearly if that's the plan, hindsight says we should have just drafted FF (one doesn't need hindsight for that). But living in the current reality... is this something that the team should at least consider?

There's no question the kid is gifted offensively. And while he wouldn't be an ideal winger for us... there are some intriguing options that open up if that move was attempted. Being able to hide him from the draft and if it works, potentially finding another young offensive LW for us...

Not a chance. Pouliot's been a full-menu defenseman at every level, playing big minutes in all situations. He has some areas to polish up defensively, but he's hardly a candidate to switch to the wing. It's not like he's some irredeemable liability back there.

He's not Any elmore.
 

Paulie Gualtieri

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Personally I just find it hard to see how Pouliot fits, unless we use two lefties on the third pairing. Now that Lovejoy is gone, Cole's role as a more defensive defenseman and PKer will be important.
 

Clatartar

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There's still no reason to worry about pooh, Daley will walk opening his slot for Pooh or Schultz to take.
 

Dipsy Doodle

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Personally I just find it hard to see how Pouliot fits, unless we use two lefties on the third pairing. Now that Lovejoy is gone, Cole's role as a more defensive defenseman and PKer will be important.

DP's played the right side before. If he outplays Schultz, then he should get that spot. If not, he'll hopefully (contrary to JR's statements) get some playing time in WBS and we can try to slip him through the expansion draft.
 

Riptide

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Personally I just find it hard to see how Pouliot fits, unless we use two lefties on the third pairing. Now that Lovejoy is gone, Cole's role as a more defensive defenseman and PKer will be important.

There's still no reason to worry about pooh, Daley will walk opening his slot for Pooh or Schultz to take.

That and Cole is very capable of playing the right side.

Maatta/Dumo - Letang
Maatta/Dumo - Schultz
Pouliot - Cole
 

Gurglesons

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The issue is if Schultz has a good season is it worth giving him money? I feel like we could much more easily find a defenseman in UFA.

On a side note I just realized Alzner is a UFA next year. I wonder how much the Caps are going to shell out for him. He has to cost at least what they are giving Niskanen.
 

JTG

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I want nothing more than for Pouliot to come out and look like he really belongs in the top 4 of this defense. Pouliot, in theory, should thrive in this system.

The thing that JR has is a lot of movable money. Fleury, Kunitz, Cole, and Fehr. Then factor in Dupuis' hit going away. That right there is like 18 million in non-essential parts.

I don't personally see Justin Schultz cashing in next offseason because he won't be put in a position here, barring a lot of injuries, to showcase being a two way defenseman. He's an offensive specialist, and I gleefully look forward to Letang on the point of powerplay and it looking like an abortion. If Schultz were to wrangle that spot away from Letang and thrive there, he'd get big bucks next offseason because I think he'd be highly successful.

That point sort of brings me back to Pouliot, because if Pouliot proves that he's just average defensively, we should really consider moving him to another team because he will never see the type of mins here in the situations where he can thrive. He's a PPQB and he'll never see a lick of PP time.
 

Riptide

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The issue is if Schultz has a good season is it worth giving him money? I feel like we could much more easily find a defenseman in UFA.

On a side note I just realized Alzner is a UFA next year. I wonder how much the Caps are going to shell out for him. He has to cost at least what they are giving Niskanen.

Schultz even if he has a great season likely isn't going to get a ton. Besides, he's a RFA with a 1.5m QO. What do you think he'll get even if he has a good season? 4m? Not likely. Even with arbitration rights, odds are he signs for something around 3m, and that's even if he has a very good season next year (comparative to his peers).

As for Alzner, meh, whatever. A very good D, but if we're going to go sign someone, why not just try and keep Daley?

I want nothing more than for Pouliot to come out and look like he really belongs in the top 4 of this defense. Pouliot, in theory, should thrive in this system.

The thing that JR has is a lot of movable money. Fleury, Kunitz, Cole, and Fehr. Then factor in Dupuis' hit going away. That right there is like 18 million in non-essential parts.

Meh, not quite. Dupuis already for all intents and purposes is off the books as he's on LTIR and we'll be spending the vast majority of his money already on other players. Cullen (due to age), MAF and Kunitz, yep absolutely. And if needed, potentially Cole and Fehr. Which is 14.7m. Good... but weighed against needing to sign Dumoulin (~4m), Murray (~3-3.5m) and hopefully signing Bonino, a good chunk of that 15m is gone. The question mark will be Daley and his 4.4m hit (essentially). What will be left will be spent on Daley or Schultz/Pouliot (hopefully both are still here) and just filling out the ranks. If no salary is brought back when we find a way to dump MAF, then we'll have a few bucks (4-5m) if needed to spend on something nice.

I don't personally see Justin Schultz cashing in next offseason because he won't be put in a position here, barring a lot of injuries, to showcase being a two way defenseman.

Agreed. Schultz won't get much regardless of what he shows this season. He's a RFA and assuming he's still here, one that likely signs for around 3m - perhaps even less.

That point sort of brings me back to Pouliot, because if Pouliot proves that he's just average defensively, we should really consider moving him to another team because he will never see the type of mins here in the situations where he can thrive. He's a PPQB and he'll never see a lick of PP time.

Well we always need someone like him on the 2nd PP. Is that using him to his full potential? Absolutely not. But on the other hand, unless we're getting something good for him, there's not much reason to move him. Even in a depth role, he'd still be someone that would help this team. I mean the knock on Schultz was always that he's "average defensively" - at best. And while to an extent thats still true, because of his ability to move the puck, statistically, he does a lot better than people think and is frequently able to keep himself out of trouble. There's no reason why Pouliot can't do the same.

I mean allowing Gogo to establish himself, fetched us Neal. Just hang onto Pouliot and see how things shake out. His value if he plays regular minutes over the next season or two will go up significantly. Might he get us a "Neal" player? Who knows. But GMs are always looking for young PMD, and the fast offensive system we're likely going to be playing the next two seasons can only help Pouliot with regards to his stats and style of play. Which in turn only helps his value if we decide to move him.
 
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Dipsy Doodle

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I want nothing more than for Pouliot to come out and look like he really belongs in the top 4 of this defense. Pouliot, in theory, should thrive in this system.

The thing that JR has is a lot of movable money. Fleury, Kunitz, Cole, and Fehr. Then factor in Dupuis' hit going away. That right there is like 18 million in non-essential parts.

I don't personally see Justin Schultz cashing in next offseason because he won't be put in a position here, barring a lot of injuries, to showcase being a two way defenseman. He's an offensive specialist, and I gleefully look forward to Letang on the point of powerplay and it looking like an abortion. If Schultz were to wrangle that spot away from Letang and thrive there, he'd get big bucks next offseason because I think he'd be highly successful.

That point sort of brings me back to Pouliot, because if Pouliot proves that he's just average defensively, we should really consider moving him to another team because he will never see the type of mins here in the situations where he can thrive. He's a PPQB and he'll never see a lick of PP time.

Keep in mind that Daley will be a 34 year old UFA next off-season. Even if he's the only defenseman we lose after next season, we'll have an opening for another PMD.
 
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