Salary Cap: 2016-17 roster-building part XVI | Contract/FA charts, cap info in post #1

[The Greatest 101]

Not being a homer but Josi over Letang every day.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Its shocking, we disagree .
I should add Josi to my list in any case, but he is another in the category of pretty much same level as Letang. The idea that Hedman is arguable is just bizarre to me. I think he and Doughty are the best two D-men in the league. Anyway, agree to disagree on the details.

Letang being in the 7-12 group or something is still pretty great.

I think Hedman is great, but I just don't see what sets him apart from the rest of that 2nd tier. He's every bit as up and down as Letang is from what I've seen of him. But yeah, I guess we can just agree to disagree. 7-12 group is pretty great, but I still say 4-8 is more accurate. But those aren't that far off.

 

[Steel Winning]

Lol no. He's not good enough to be the backup to our backup's backup.

Technically he could've been last year?

Wasn't it

Fleury
Zatkoff Backup
Murray Backup's Backup
XXXX Backup to Backup's Backup

around December?

 

[orby]

I'd put Letang at #7 in the league behind Karlsson, Keith, Doughty, Hedman, Subban, and Josi. He's definitely in the upper echelon but i think he's a bit too inconsistent to crack the top 5.

 

[Shady Machine]

Not being a homer but Josi over Letang every day.

I'm fine with that, but I think it's a preference thing to be honest. Both are great players, but I'm not comfortable saying a definite yes to either over the other one.

That's what brings me back to this strange "Letang isn't top 5 thing". Cole said Letang isn't top 5 and sort of laughed off anyone that suggested he was and then when asked for evidence, did a tiered system that showed only 3 players on a higher tier as Letang. So to me, that implies calling Letang a top 5 defender isn't an absurd notion.

I personally don't even know if there is a top 5. Dmen are hard to rank like that because of different preferences. You have high end offensive dmen (Karlsson, Burns) that might have some defensive deficiencies. You have some real rock solid and steady guys on defense (Vlasic) that don't have the offensive game of others. Then you have guys that were elite that are falling off (Chara now and Weber soonish), and some guys that are on the upswing (Josi, OEL, Ekblad, Hedman).

I think there are arguments to be made that suggest Letang is top 5 or has been over the last few years.

 

[SEALBound]

I'm fine with that, but I think it's a preference thing to be honest. Both are great players, but I'm not comfortable saying a definite yes to either over the other one.

That's what brings me back to this strange "Letang isn't top 5 thing". Cole said Letang isn't top 5 and sort of laughed off anyone that suggested he was and then when asked for evidence, did a tiered system that showed only 3 players on a higher tier as Letang. So to me, that implies calling Letang a top 5 defender isn't an absurd notion.

I personally don't even know if there is a top 5. Dmen are hard to rank like that because of different preferences. You have high end offensive dmen (Karlsson, Burns) that might have some defensive deficiencies. You have some real rock solid and steady guys on defense (Vlasic) that don't have the offensive game of others. Then you have guys that were elite that are falling off (Chara now and Weber soonish), and some guys that are on the upswing (Josi, OEL, Ekblad, Hedman).

I think there are arguments to be made that suggest Letang is top 5 or has been over the last few years.

Problem is, there are about 10 top 5 dmen in the league. The difference between 5 and 6 is not that great.

 

[Pens17]

I'm fine with that, but I think it's a preference thing to be honest. Both are great players, but I'm not comfortable saying a definite yes to either over the other one.

That's what brings me back to this strange "Letang isn't top 5 thing". Cole said Letang isn't top 5 and sort of laughed off anyone that suggested he was and then when asked for evidence, did a tiered system that showed only 3 players on a higher tier as Letang. So to me, that implies calling Letang a top 5 defender isn't an absurd notion.

I personally don't even know if there is a top 5. Dmen are hard to rank like that because of different preferences. You have high end offensive dmen (Karlsson, Burns) that might have some defensive deficiencies. You have some real rock solid and steady guys on defense (Vlasic) that don't have the offensive game of others. Then you have guys that were elite that are falling off (Chara now and Weber soonish), and some guys that are on the upswing (Josi, OEL, Ekblad, Hedman).

I think there are arguments to be made that suggest Letang is top 5 or has been over the last few years.

As a metaphor, Rod Sperling circa 1960, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!" The best part of this entire thread, it is great to have a player as LeTang and argue how great he is!

 

[Waffle Fries]

Personally, I wouldn't put Karlsson in that number one tier with Keith and Doughty. I just don't see it.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

I can tell you guys this, Josi is absolutely not better than Letang. He's pretty weak in his own zone.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

I can tell you guys this, Josi is absolutely not better than Letang. He's pretty weak in his own zone.

He's a poor man's Letang. I'm not sure why someone would think Josi is better

 

[Hottubber]

Has Ryan Suter slipped? I don't watch any minny games but he has always been a huge minute eating #1 d man

 

[Hottubber]

Not that I'm a Gagner fan, but you'd think he got better offers than 1 year 650k. It's not like he is signing with a cup favourite either

 

[The Greatest 101]

He's a poor man's Letang. I'm not sure why someone would think Josi is better

How is Josi a poor man's Letang when their styles are nothing alike?

 

[Shockmaster]

I can tell you guys this, Josi is absolutely not better than Letang. He's pretty weak in his own zone.

I think what a lot of people who don't follow the Penguins regularly realize is Letang is pretty much both the Penguins' best offensive defenseman and best defensive defenseman.

 

[ZeroHero]

Elliotte Friedman ‏@FriedgeHNIC 3m3 minutes ago
Something odd today. ARIZ has put Antoine Vermette on waivers for purpose of buyout.

That's strange.

 

[Steel Winning]

Elliotte Friedman ‏@FriedgeHNIC 3m3 minutes ago
Something odd today. ARIZ has put Antoine Vermette on waivers for purpose of buyout.

That's strange.

If Cullen doesn't re-sign?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

If Cullen doesn't re-sign?

Just came here to post that. Vermette would be a PERFECT replacement for Cullen if he were to sign for similar money.

 

[Jacob]

Vermette would be awesome. I'd pull the offer for Cullen and just offer that + more to Vermette.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Weird move by Chayka. If he is willing to sign for cheap, I'm in.

 

[BeautiPhil]

Hasn't Vermette been good? That is really odd. I would love him here.

 

[Jacob]

Apparently just not $3.75 million good.

Must not have much trade value either since I'm sure Arizona would've eaten some salary to get rid of him before resorting to buying him out.

 

[Steel Winning]

Apparently just not $3.75 million good.

Must not have much trade value either since I'm sure Arizona would've eaten some salary to get rid of him before resorting to buying him out.

Main board seems to be thinking Arizona is putting together a Kucherov offer sheet. Man would I love to get him out of the east

 

[Rocket of Russia]

I think Weber has 1 more year left at the elite top 5 status, although that contract is extremely laughable. Funny how those crazy long-term contracts all look bad except Sid's and maybe a few others. I might have a man crush on Weber more than others, but I still think he has that level of play.

Keith, Doughty, Karlsson, OEL, Weber are my actual 1-5. When you get to 6 it's tricky. I think you could then make the case for the following - Hedman, Letang, Josi, Gio, Subban, Piets. Then I have guys who are right there in Burns, Carlson, Suter, Seabrook, McDonagh. Am I forgetting anyone? I'm doing this w/o looking at rosters. I feel like I'm missing someone.

Now realistically I would rather do a tier system.

Tier 1: Keith, Doughty, Karlsson.

OEL/Hedman/Subban/Letang all get to this level, but to actually stay on Tier 1 is doing it night in/night out. It's such an elite status. IMO the 3 I mentioned are building to be HOF players.

Tier 2: OEL, Weber (who stays consistent here), Letang, Subban, Hedman, Gio, Josi, Piets.

I think OEL and Weber stay at that elite Tier 2 status the most while IMO Hedman/Letang/Subban show they have more potential but fail to secure that consistency. Letang puts on another season like he just did and stays healthy... and he's there.

Nice list. I would put Karlsson in Tier 2 - his defensive play has to come in to play. Josi and OEL have looked tremendous for a few seasons, but haven't touched the consistency of Letang IMO. Subban and Hedman are getting there. I don't think Giordano gets there even with his high-end flashes. I've already commented quite a bit how average Weber has started to look when compared to Josi; even if Josi is elite, Weber's contrast to Josi matters in the context of where we're putting Weber vs. Letang. And Pietrangelo might be the most overrated high-end defenseman in the NHL so I'm all set on comparing him to Letang.

Long story short Doughty and Keith are the only two defenders who I would say are better than Letang. One was the best player on a stacked Canadian Olympic team and one was the Conn Smythe winner in 2015. Not a bad deal for the Penguins' 2005 3rd round pick. Keeping him instead of trading for Justin Schultz and a 1st was a good idea after all.

 

[Riptide]

Is it October yet?

I know right? Forget about the start of the hockey season... I have an epic 2 week trip planned in Oct where I'm off to Tampa, Dallas and Edmonton to leave the snow behind and to party it up in the sun beach/lake side. Oh and catch 5 hockey games. Am so pumped.

 

[SEALBound]

Main board seems to be thinking Arizona is putting together a Kucherov offer sheet. Man would I love to get him out of the east

That would be awesome and one hell of a bold move for Arizona. Especially if they can't get something done for Reider.

That would set them up very well moving forward.

I think they are under the mindset that if you get a good young competitive core, you may be able to draw the crowds in. If not, the sale of the team or relocating would be much more appealing.