Salary Cap: 2016-17 roster-building part XVI | Contract/FA charts, cap info in post #1

[Shady Machine]

Karlsson, Doughty, Keith, OEL are the only four I'd have ahead of him. Even then I think he can be at the level of those players. He's definitely in that tier of Hedman, Subban, Josi where they get caught out of position because they play the puck so much.

I agree with that. In years past you could put Chara, Weber, and Suter ahead of him but not anymore.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Do we keep Daley on the team after next year? I don't know if we can afford him.

Dumoulin long term 3.5 would be nice like I stated last thread.

Does Sprong play in the NHL in the top 9?

A line of Sprong Rust and Malkin would be awesome.
I don't even feel that would be giving malkin the shaft because Sprong is awesome

 

[Jacob]

I'm not sure anyone is clearly ahead of Letang. I'd say there's a class of 8-10 upper echelon d-men that are all extremely comparable and picking the best might be dependent on personal preferences, biased or team needs.

Keith, Letang, Subban, Karlsson, Doughty, Burns, Klingberg, Josi.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

I'm not a big Burns fan

 

[ColePens]

I think Weber has 1 more year left at the elite top 5 status, although that contract is extremely laughable. Funny how those crazy long-term contracts all look bad except Sid's and maybe a few others. I might have a man crush on Weber more than others, but I still think he has that level of play.

Keith, Doughty, Karlsson, OEL, Weber are my actual 1-5. When you get to 6 it's tricky. I think you could then make the case for the following - Hedman, Letang, Josi, Gio, Subban, Piets. Then I have guys who are right there in Burns, Carlson, Suter, Seabrook, McDonagh. Am I forgetting anyone? I'm doing this w/o looking at rosters. I feel like I'm missing someone.



Now realistically I would rather do a tier system.

Tier 1: Keith, Doughty, Karlsson.

OEL/Hedman/Subban/Letang all get to this level, but to actually stay on Tier 1 is doing it night in/night out. It's such an elite status. IMO the 3 I mentioned are building to be HOF players.

Tier 2: OEL, Weber (who stays consistent here), Letang, Subban, Hedman, Gio, Josi, Piets.

I think OEL and Weber stay at that elite Tier 2 status the most while IMO Hedman/Letang/Subban show they have more potential but fail to secure that consistency. Letang puts on another season like he just did and stays healthy... and he's there.

Tier 3. Burns, Carlson, Suter, Seabrook, McDonagh.

I'm sure I'm missing some, but this would be the tier 3 of solid elite defenders. Maybe add Vlasic and a few others to this one. These guys are solid top players but don't have that next level elite status or have inconsistencies that keep them down. Burns has the highest potential out of these guys. Seabrook is probably the most deserving for his insane consistency.

 

[High Flying Birds]

OEL is not better than Letang. His defense is very mediocre from what I've seen of him.

And I'd say thanks to Daley but good luck elsewhere unless we could retain him for very cheap. Which is highly unlikely if he continues to put up the offensive numbers he did when he came over.

 

[ColePens]

Thread title changed. Deleted the posts just to clear up confusion.

 

[mpp9]

If you think Shea Weber does more for a team than Letang, Im not sure what to say other than you're wrong.

And acting like Letang playing poorly for a few games is evidence that he's not a top 5 D is ridiculous. Hedman blew monkey balls in games 6 and 7 against us. Id say he's pretty freaking good.

 

[ColePens]

So Hedman, as you put it, "blew monkey balls", as did Letang in Game 5 ECF and Game 3 SCF... but those two are different? Doesn't that just exactly explain my reasoning for putting Hedman/Letang on the same level? The two show major elite status and I think will be in the top elite group, but what keeps them out is those hiccups that keep happening. That's exactly why I leave them both out of Group 1 and topping that group 2.

I love it... you literally say Letang is a top defender even though he has a few hiccups, but Hedman isn't because he has a few hiccups. That blows my mind how you wrote that, read it, and didn't see any problems with it.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Do we keep Daley on the team after next year? I don't know if we can afford him.

Dumoulin long term 3.5 would be nice like I stated last thread.

Does Sprong play in the NHL in the top 9?

A line of Sprong Rust and Malkin would be awesome.
I don't even feel that would be giving malkin the shaft because Sprong is awesome

For Daley, wait and see. Guys like Pouliot, Bengtsson, Schultz, Prow can make strides and paying Daley 4-5M bucks doesn't make much sense then.
He could also be taken in the exp. draft.

 

[mpp9]

What? I put Hedman in the top 5. They have bad games.

I think you just appreciate cerebral D-men more. And you get frustrated with his mistakes more easily.

 

[Tender Rip]

So which 5 defensemen are better than Letang?

Doughty, Hedman, Keith, Suter, OEL, Pietrangelo, Karlsson, Giordano, Weber, Subban

Are in my opinion all better than Letang, although several of them marginally so. But that still makes 58 app. a top 10 D-Man in the league while being top 3-4 when it comes to generating offense. I'm fine with that - also at his salary.
What I could never abide was Norris talk or the idea that he is a PP QB.

 

[mpp9]

Weber's an inferior skater and breakout passer. Hitting people and having a canon shot does not make up that gap in ability. Especially in today's league where getting the puck out of your end as fast as possible is insanely important.

 

[Shady Machine]

Weber and Suter aren't better than Letang anymore. Hell they may not have been the best dmen on their own teams last year.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Karlsson, Doughty, Keith, OEL are the only four I'd have ahead of him. Even then I think he can be at the level of those players. He's definitely in that tier of Hedman, Subban, Josi where they get caught out of position because they play the puck so much.

That would be the group I have up top too. Its so hard to say who is best of them because they are all pretty different. They all have a strength that sets them apart from the rest. The thing that sets those top guys apart from the other guys is the consistency that they have played at an elite level. On any given night, Letang, Hedman, Subban, or Josi can all outplay Karlsson, Doughty, Keith, or OEL. Letang just put together his best streak of elite level play imo.

I am hoping that finally having a coach who understands how to properly set him up for success can get him to that level of consistency. That doesn't mean I expect him to stop making bad turnovers trying to force a play. That's not going away, just like it hasn't gone away for Karlsson. Or for Sid or Geno. That's the risk of pressing offense that hard. But I am hoping that his overall play can stay at the level it was at under Sully last year. If it does, Letang is in that top group, turnovers and all.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Doughty, Hedman, Keith, Suter, OEL, Pietrangelo, Karlsson, Giordano, Weber, Subban

Are in my opinion all better than Letang, although several of them marginally so. But that still makes 58 app. a top 10 D-Man in the league while being top 3-4 when it comes to generating offense. I'm fine with that - also at his salary.
What I could never abide was Norris talk or the idea that he is a PP QB.

The bold are maybes, the underlined are not as good as Letang at this point imo.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I think Weber has 1 more year left at the elite top 5 status, although that contract is extremely laughable. Funny how those crazy long-term contracts all look bad except Sid's and maybe a few others. I might have a man crush on Weber more than others, but I still think he has that level of play.

Keith, Doughty, Karlsson, OEL, Weber are my actual 1-5. When you get to 6 it's tricky. I think you could then make the case for the following - Hedman, Letang, Josi, Gio, Subban, Piets. Then I have guys who are right there in Burns, Carlson, Suter, Seabrook, McDonagh. Am I forgetting anyone? I'm doing this w/o looking at rosters. I feel like I'm missing someone.



Now realistically I would rather do a tier system.

Tier 1: Keith, Doughty, Karlsson.

OEL/Hedman/Subban/Letang all get to this level, but to actually stay on Tier 1 is doing it night in/night out. It's such an elite status. IMO the 3 I mentioned are building to be HOF players.

Tier 2: OEL, Weber (who stays consistent here), Letang, Subban, Hedman, Gio, Josi, Piets.

I think OEL and Weber stay at that elite Tier 2 status the most while IMO Hedman/Letang/Subban show they have more potential but fail to secure that consistency. Letang puts on another season like he just did and stays healthy... and he's there.

Tier 3. Burns, Carlson, Suter, Seabrook, McDonagh.

I'm sure I'm missing some, but this would be the tier 3 of solid elite defenders. Maybe add Vlasic and a few others to this one. These guys are solid top players but don't have that next level elite status or have inconsistencies that keep them down. Burns has the highest potential out of these guys. Seabrook is probably the most deserving for his insane consistency.

I like this list, except I think Weber has dropped down a tier the last year or two. I would say Gio is down a notch too, but his highs are super high so maybe. I almost never watch the Flames.

 

[NeedleInTheHay]

I've said it before but I think the only guys you can argue to be better than Letang are Doughty, Keith, and EK.

I think Keith is a little better but I would choose Letang based on age.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I've said it before but I think the only guys you can argue to be better than Letang are Doughty, Keith, and EK.

I think Keith is a little better but I would choose Letang based on age.

If we're talking about how Letang played under Sully last year, I'd agree. But if we're talking about Letang the last few years, he simply doesn't have the consistency to be grouped with those guys imo. His play under Sully was the most consistently elite he's played since coming into the league. Show me that again this year and I have Letang in that top tier with those guys.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I'd go with;

T1; Keith, Doughty, Karlsson, OEL, Hedman
T2; Weber, Burns, Josi, Letang, Subban, Giordano, Pietrangelo
T3; Carlson, Seabrook, Suter, Vlasic, McDonagh, Ekblad

And yes, I genuinely think OEL is a top-tier defenseman. The dude's unbelievable. Same with Hedman.

 

[FreeBobbyFarnham]

I didn't know we still had Alexander Pechurskiy's rights. Is he good enough to be Murray's backup in case we trade Fleury?

 

[Ogrezilla]

I'd go with;

T1; Keith, Doughty, Karlsson, OEL, Hedman
T2; Weber, Burns, Josi, Letang, Subban, Giordano, Pietrangelo
T3; Carlson, Seabrook, Suter, Vlasic, McDonagh, Ekblad

And yes, I genuinely think OEL is a top-tier defenseman. The dude's unbelievable. Same with Hedman.

Hedman suffers from inconsistency just about as much as Letang from what I've seen of him. And if Letang's PP QB abilities can be used against him as a reason he's not at the very top tier, Hedman is significantly worse than Letang on the PP. Hedman's size combined with how well he moves at that size is fantastic though. Like I said, I put him in the 2nd tier with Letang. Which one is better depends on the team and the situation imo.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

I didn't know we still had Alexander Pechurskiy's rights. Is he good enough to be Murray's backup in case we trade Fleury?

Lol no. He's not good enough to be the backup to our backup's backup.

 

[ColePens]

Nonetheless, ultimately we are arguing how great our #1 defender is. That's a pretty good situation to be in.

 

[Tender Rip]

The bold are maybes, the underlined are not as good as Letang at this point imo.

Its shocking, we disagree .
I should add Josi to my list in any case, but he is another in the category of pretty much same level as Letang. The idea that Hedman is arguable is just bizarre to me. I think he and Doughty are the best two D-men in the league. Anyway, agree to disagree on the details.

Letang being in the 7-12 group or something is still pretty great.