Salary Cap: 2016-17 Roster-Building Part XIX | Yakety Yak (Contract + Cap Info in 1st Post)

[PensandCaps]

browns last 3 years.

27 points in 79 games
27 points in 82 games
28 points in 82 games.

why would any team want him for even 50% retention. and most those points are him playing with kopitar most the time.

 

[molon labe]

No chance. He's making .125 more per year than Fleury per year, which isn't that bad, but he's on that contract up through 2021/2022, which is not ideal whatsoever, especially if that contract looks bad already. Plus, he doesn't fit what the Penguins are trying to do with the speed and skill game, as he is more of a grinder/tough guy.

Sort of like Kunitz but with more skill and harder hits? Isn't that what they tend to think fits best on a Sid line? While I'm totally down for continuing to just get faster and more skilled, something about our recent luck in getting players to turn things around in a new scenario makes me really think about getting a guy like that.

Most bluelines struggle without their #1 defenseman. Particularly teams with so much of their cap space invested in forwards.

I agree. We have the capability to improve the defense though - why wouldn't we? Maatta + Fleury = nearly 10 million in cap space. That's enough cash for any defender in the league. We're looking at a draft pick or two for Fleury - which gurantees the 6M off the books, Maatta could then just be part of the trade bringing back a much better defender who can skate at an NHL level.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

I agree. We have the capability to improve the defense though - why wouldn't we? Maatta + Fleury = nearly 10 million in cap space. That's enough cash for any defender in the league. We're looking at a draft pick or two for Fleury - which gurantees the 6M off the books, Maatta could then just be part of the trade bringing back a much better defender who can skate at an NHL level.

Can you tell me which team would trade for Fleury with only draft picks?

 

[molon labe]

browns last 3 years.

27 points in 79 games
27 points in 82 games
28 points in 82 games.

why would any team want him for even 50% retention. and most those points are him playing with kopitar most the time.

We have wingers who can't even score or find open ice with Geno and Sid - both of whom are better than Anze. Also, I really think there's something to be said about getting players into different systems with different guys that could improve their numbers. Brown would be to Sid what Kunitz has been - but he can finish plays better and can hit better.

As for his 'experience' - being a Captain quantifies experience a bit more than the practice squad taking the ice for the celebration. Plus he's played out west which is something that's always nice to bring on board.

By no means am I certain about such an acquisition, but I really think it could be beneficial to the Pens. Honestly I expected to be blasted a bit more

 

[molon labe]

Can you tell me which team would trade for Fleury with only draft picks?

Are we talking this past off season, currently, or this coming off season (which is where most rumors point)?

 

[molon labe]

Can you tell me which team would trade for Fleury with only draft picks?

Assuming right now - which it might take some SLIGHT contract finaggling:

Oilers
Senators
Jets

Any proposal (in my opinion) regarding Fleury means he's giving up his NTC. I'm not sure of any team that wants his term AND NTC.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Are we talking this past off season, currently, or this coming off season (which is where most rumors point)?

Why would I talk about this past offseason? We knew very well that we had a shot then, and according to our insider we were apparently pretty close to doing it. Obviously talking about the time between now and the expansion draft.

 

[PensandCaps]

We have wingers who can't even score or find open ice with Geno and Sid - both of whom are better than Anze. Also, I really think there's something to be said about getting players into different systems with different guys that could improve their numbers. Brown would be to Sid what Kunitz has been - but he can finish plays better and can hit better.

As for his 'experience' - being a Captain quantifies experience a bit more than the practice squad taking the ice for the celebration. Plus he's played out west which is something that's always nice to bring on board.

By no means am I certain about such an acquisition, but I really think it could be beneficial to the Pens. Honestly I expected to be blasted a bit more

kunitz is much better than brown. also, kopitar had 74 points, not like hes some scrub #1C. and the wingers who cant score with sid and geno, im assuming you mean rust,wilson,sheary. are better than brown.

also, kopitar>geno

 

[PensandCaps]

Assuming right now - which it might take some SLIGHT contract finaggling:

Oilers
Senators
Jets

Any proposal (in my opinion) regarding Fleury means he's giving up his NTC. I'm not sure of any team that wants his term AND NTC.

jets wouldnt. they have a young stud goalie. and already have pavelec owed alot of money.

 

[Jacob]

jets wouldnt. they have a young stud goalie.

Several, in fact.

And the Oilers seem content with Talbot.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Assuming right now - which it might take some SLIGHT contract finaggling:

Oilers
Senators
Jets

Any proposal (in my opinion) regarding Fleury means he's giving up his NTC. I'm not sure of any team that wants his term AND NTC.

Cam Talbot is one of the leagues better goalies. For what I know he has one of the best adjusted SV% in the league. No chance in hell they trade for Fleury with picks.

Ottawa is a budget team. Would not trade for that contract with draft picks.

Even though Hellebuyck has had a rough start to the season, I doubt Winnipeg trades for Fleury.

Any more teams that you believe would trade for Fleury with draft picks? Because I can't mention one. Zero. It is most likely that we would be taking the goaltender the other team planned to protect back, and not too much more from a Fleury trade (if multiple teams are involved the value of the add would increase though). That could mean a big contract like Andersson/Niemi.

 

[molon labe]

Several, in fact.

And the Oilers seem content with Talbot.

Cam Talbot is one of the leagues better goalies. For what I know he has one of the best adjusted SV% in the league. No chance in hell they trade for Fleury with picks.

Ottawa is a budget team. Would not trade for that contract with draft picks.

Even though Hellebuyck has had a rough start to the season, I doubt Winnipeg trades for Fleury.

Any more teams that you believe would trade for Fleury with draft picks? Because I can't mention one. Zero. It is most likely that we would be taking the goaltender the other team planned to protect back, and not too much more from a Fleury trade (if multiple teams are involved the value of the add would increase though). That could mean a big contract like Andersson/Niemi.

Doubting doesn't mean that it won't nor can't happen. Also, seeming content is what most teams look like when you don't hear rumors. Each of those teams has a potential great goalie who isn't performing the way they should. Losing a draft pick or two to shore up the goaltending is not out of the question at all. If you take away Fleury's NTC - he can be exposed or further traded in the off season to re-coup a pick - making the trade absolutely plausible.

 

[molon labe]

kunitz is much better than brown. also, kopitar had 74 points, not like hes some scrub #1C. and the wingers who cant score with sid and geno, im assuming you mean rust,wilson,sheary. are better than brown.

also, kopitar>geno

Kunitz is not better than Brown - not close to being "much better"...really?

also, geno>kopitar and nobody even remotely said Kopitar was scrub.

 

[PensandCaps]

Kunitz is not better than Brown - not close to being "much better"...really?

also, geno>kopitar and nobody even remotely said Kopitar was scrub.

yes, becuase kunitz put up more points next to a #1C than brown did with a #1C. and cheaper. brown sucks. hes not better than anyone in the lineup, aside from sestio

id take kopitar over geno solely because of health. 4 games missed in 3 years. and hes the best defensive centre and still puts up 70+ and brings his A game to the playoffs.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Doubting doesn't mean that it won't nor can't happen. Also, seeming content is what most teams look like when you don't hear rumors. Each of those teams has a potential great goalie who isn't performing the way they should. Losing a draft pick or two to shore up the goaltending is not out of the question at all. If you take away Fleury's NTC - he can be exposed or further traded in the off season to re-coup a pick - making the trade absolutely plausible.

Ottawa and Edmonton would still be out of the equation since Ottawa is still a budget team and Cam Talbot is actually performing. And I don't see the point of Winnipeg trading for Fleury, to later expose him. Maybe if they were contenders, but they're not.

What I'm saying is that it isn't close to as simple as you make it out to be.

Kunitz is not better than Brown - not close to being "much better"...really?

also, geno>kopitar and nobody even remotely said Kopitar was scrub.

Brown is not better than Kunitz.

And I guess this could be slightly debatable but I agree that Kopi is better than Geno too.

 

[molon labe]

yes, becuase kunitz put up more points next to a #1C than brown did with a #1C. and cheaper. brown sucks. hes not better than anyone in the lineup, aside from sestio

id take kopitar over geno solely because of health. 4 games missed in 3 years. and hes the best defensive centre and still puts up 70+ and brings his A game to the playoffs.

That's how I'd justify it as well. It's a "too each his own" scenario. Geno has the ability to be the best player in the world when he's healthy - he just hasn't been fully healthy in a while - and he consistently plays with the best in the world so it gets over shadowed. This could be argued in many ways to be honest...

Kunitz makes less than Brown yes - but what else are we comparing? Sid has a LOT more creativity than most every other player in the league so we can't compare our #1C to anyone else's in regards to winger production.. I know Kopitar is very good, but let's not be overzealous and think he creates for his linemates the way Sid does. I believe Brown has a better shot, better puck handling, hits better, and finishes better than Kunitz does.

 

[PensandCaps]

also, id rather just call up guentzel than trade for brown, cheaper and better.

 

[PensandCaps]

That's how I'd justify it as well. It's a "too each his own" scenario. Geno has the ability to be the best player in the world when he's healthy - he just hasn't been fully healthy in a while - and he consistently plays with the best in the world so it gets over shadowed. This could be argued in many ways to be honest...

Kunitz makes less than Brown yes - but what else are we comparing? Sid has a LOT more creativity than most every other player in the league so we can't compare our #1C to anyone else's in regards to winger production.. I know Kopitar is very good, but let's not be overzealous and think he creates for his linemates the way Sid does. I believe Brown has a better shot, better puck handling, hits better, and finishes better than Kunitz does.

thats the problem with geno. health. fully healthy with a top 6 winger? geno is better. but cant ignore the bad play hes shown so far this year, seems injury is his excuse every time hes not playing well. he looks lazy so far this year. even in the playoffs too, probably because of some nagging injury. not with kopitar.

couldnt care less about that. kunitz looks a hell lot more better than brown so far this year. and again, we have better in house options. rust,guentzel,simon.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

also, id rather just call up guentzel than trade for brown, cheaper and better.

It still mind boggles me how we played Sestito over letting us have a look at how Guentzel would handle an NHL level.

 

[molon labe]

couldnt care less about that. kunitz looks a hell lot more better than brown so far this year. and again, we have better in house options. rust,guentzel,simon.

It still mind boggles me how we played Sestito over letting us have a look at how Guentzel would handle an NHL level.

Absolutely - but someone wants the kid to round off a few things before making the jump. I was looking more so from a perspective of LA needing a rental goalie (Fleury minus the NTC is quite a good option) and Brown could fill a role on this team - even more so if he turns things around drinking whatever Kool-Aid some of our other turnaround stories have. I don't like his term nor cap hit, which I think if they weren't so bad he'd already be gone...but I'm sure something could be managed. Also, with his NTC waived - prior cup/captain experience he could easily be our Vegas selection.

 

[PensandCaps]

It still mind boggles me how we played Sestito over letting us have a look at how Guentzel would handle an NHL level.

i guess they rather him play 1st line minutes in the A than 4th line minutes in the NHL. although couldve just played him on the first line with geno and see what happened.

 

[PensandCaps]

Absolutely - but someone wants the kid to round off a few things before making the jump. I was looking more so from a perspective of LA needing a rental goalie (Fleury minus the NTC is quite a good option) and Brown could fill a role on this team - even more so if he turns things around drinking whatever Kool-Aid some of our other turnaround stories have. I don't like his term nor cap hit, which I think if they weren't so bad he'd already be gone...but I'm sure something could be managed. Also, with his NTC waived - prior cup/captain experience he could easily be our Vegas selection.

well if LA wants fleury theyre gonna have to offer something better than just a 6 mil cap dump. he improves none of our positions.

 

[Sideline]

well if LA wants fleury theyre gonna have to offer something better than just a 6 mil cap dump. he improves none of our positions.

Even if LA retianed 50% on Brown I want nothing to do with that contract.

 

[PensandCaps]

Even if LA retianed 50% on Brown I want nothing to do with that contract.

yep.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Assuming right now - which it might take some SLIGHT contract finagling:

Oilers
Senators
Jets

Any proposal (in my opinion) regarding Fleury means he's giving up his NTC. I'm not sure of any team that wants his term AND NTC.

The Oilers seem committed to Talbot, so that won't happen. The Senators are cheap ********, or at least their owner is. They would want to surrender salary in any deal. The Jets make sense, but they would have to be convinced Fleury is the answer for the next few seasons because it could lead to them giving up on Connor Hellebuyck. The Jets make the most sense among this trio of teams.

kunitz is much better than brown. also, kopitar had 74 points, not like hes some scrub #1C. and the wingers who cant score with sid and geno, im assuming you mean rust,wilson,sheary. are better than brown.

also, kopitar>geno

OK, hang on a second here. The only season Kopitar produced better PPG numbers than Malkin was 2010-11, IIRC. Yes he is the better two-way center, but that wouldn't be enough to get Dustin Brown going. I'm not saying Brown would produce better numbers with Geno, and I am CERTAINLY NOT suggesting we should go after Brown, but Malkin's a more natural playmaker than Kopitar. So, Brown's chances of producing better numbers with Geno increase, imo.

It still mind boggles me how we played Sestito over letting us have a look at how Guentzel would handle an NHL level.

Why are people still banging on Sestito? He has played 5 minutes/game when dressed. He has not been a minus player in any of them. He took one penalty in the last game, otherwise he was clean with one fighting major. He has done his job.

It's much better to have him on the roster as the extra forward than a kid who needs to play big minutes like Guentzel.

Crosby is back tonight. Before we throw Sestito away, let's see if teams start targeting 87. We may need Sestito when we start playing meaningful divisional games.