Salary Cap: 2016-17 roster-building part XIV | Contract/FA charts in post #1 | Cap set at $73M

[Shady Machine]

Do people still think that LV can be bribed with something like a 2nd round pick to pass on Murray?

The people saying that think so (not me) because they believe the Pens will threaten to buy out Fleury if they don't take a 2nd or whatever. I believe LV will and should call their bluff and I don't believe the Pens will buy out Fleury. I think all trade options will be exhausted before that, including taking a **** return and/or a salary dump in return.

So to me, it's going to cost a 1st or more if it every gets to that option.

 

[Winger for Hire]

I mean LV is in a win/win situation if it comes to that... they either call the bluff and the Pens buy-out MAF and the Pens are stuck with a buy-out cap hit, or they negotiate with them for a "bribe" with 100% of the leverage and end up with a couple draft picks (I'd say a 1st and 3rd-ish, minimum) plus someone off the Pens roster.

The Pens loose in either situation.

 

[Shady Machine]

I mean LV is in a win/win situation if it comes to that... they either call the bluff and the Pens buy-out MAF and the Pens are stuck with a buy-out cap hit, or they negotiate with them for a "bribe" with 100% of the leverage and end up with a couple draft picks (I'd say a 1st and 3rd-ish, minimum) plus someone off the Pens roster.

The Pens loose in either situation.

I wouldn't say LV is in a win-win situation but they definitely have the upper hand. How does LV "win" if the Pens buy out Fleury and lose additional compensation from the Pens for not taking Murray?

In that example the Pens buy out Fleury and LV takes Pouliot without any additional picks. I guess if they knew Fleury would sign with them in free agency, then they win by getting a starter + high potential young PMD. That seems like a long shot though.

The logic goes that LV will back off the bluff and take the best compensation they can negotiate so they can stock draft picks or prospects.

I don't actually believe the Pens will buy out Fleury though, so in my view, LV has the upper hand if it comes to the bribe situation.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

His lack of urgency makes me nervous. You call it ice water, but to me it looks like lack of lack of urgency and an understanding of NHL speed. Overall I agree he will get better in that area and be a solid bottom pairing guy this year with tons of room to grow. I just hope they consistently trust him if he struggles early on. He needs a good 20-30 games to adjust to NHL speed every night.

I mostly call it that because he exhibits the same tendencies on offense, only there it's usually been a big benefit. But it boils down to the same problem, whatever we call it. I'm confident that our development team will bring him up to speed defensively the same way they've done with so many PMDs before him.

Like you say, we just have to hope that the coach will exercise some patience with him when he hits the inevitable bumps in the road.

 

[Shady Machine]

I mostly call it that because he exhibits the same tendencies on offense, only there it's usually been a big benefit. But it boils down to the same problem, whatever we call it. I'm confident that our development team will bring him up to speed defensively the same way they've done with so many PMDs before him.

Like you say, we just have to hope that the coach will exercise some patience with him when he hits the inevitable bumps in the road.

Agreed. I'll be honest, I do have some concerns with him, but there is no denying the talent. Plus, I get really excited thinking about a D group that can contribute offensively like this group can. Add to that our speedy forwards and this upcoming season could be really entertaining.

 

[hooverdam]

Because he's a very talented young defenseman who's thrived at every previous level, and was good last year in his 2nd call-up before Schultz moved him down the depth chart.

Pouliot has always been competitive. He's a feisty bugger, not unlike Letang. Where he differs is that the ice water he has flowing through his veins that helps him so much as a PP quarterback often makes him think he has more time than he has in his own end, then guys close in on him and he loses possession. He made strides to address that last year, and I'm sure he'll take further steps this year. It's all part of the maturation process of a young PMD.

I think he'll be great in a bottom pair role this season. He's ready.

I'm glad not everyone has written Pouliot off. I hope the management team feels the same way, but I fear that they don't.

 

[Zero Pucks]

How? I hope he's hitting the gym hard and suddenly grows a competitive nature.

Some consistent playing time should help.

 

[mpp9]

Like you say, we just have to hope that the coach will exercise some patience with him when he hits the inevitable bumps in the road.

Every coach makes maddening decisions with a young player on the roster. I'd bet it's Pouliot for us.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Every coach makes maddening decisions with a young player on the roster. I'd bet it's Pouliot for us.

Madden has consistently said the org doesn't like DP.

Poeple can rag on the guy, but he has legit sources, and after the Despres trade, it isn't a rumor I can easily blow off.

 

[Asuna]

Madden has consistently said the org doesn't like DP.

Poeple can rag on the guy, but he has legit sources, and after the Despres trade, it isn't a rumor I can easily blow off.

DK and Yohe have said the same thing as well.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

DK and Yohe have said the same thing as well.

That's just.... swell

 

[hooverdam]

The fact that they don't like Pouliot is kind of ridiculous, as much as I totally believe it's true. This time last year he was the presumed golden boy; the org considered it a major victory that they kept him out of the Kessel trade.

 

[Winger for Hire]

I wouldn't say LV is in a win-win situation but they definitely have the upper hand. How does LV "win" if the Pens buy out Fleury and lose additional compensation from the Pens for not taking Murray?

In that example the Pens buy out Fleury and LV takes Pouliot without any additional picks. I guess if they knew Fleury would sign with them in free agency, then they win by getting a starter + high potential young PMD. That seems like a long shot though.

The logic goes that LV will back off the bluff and take the best compensation they can negotiate so they can stock draft picks or prospects.

I don't actually believe the Pens will buy out Fleury though, so in my view, LV has the upper hand if it comes to the bribe situation.

I think we're on the same page with all this. I was just assuming that if LV were to "force" the Pens to buyout MAF, they would push hard to sign him as a FA (I haven't looked at the UFA goalie market for then, but I would assume MAF would be head and shoulders the best 1 or 2 on the market, at worst). Being a new team I would imagine they won't take any/many hampering contracts and would have the money to offer MAF something lucrative with good term.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Whatever they think of Pouliot, I just hope he gets a fair shot.

But he absolutely needs to stay healthy, and he needs to be dialed in from Day One of camp.

 

[Shady Machine]

I think we're on the same page with all this. I was just assuming that if LV were to "force" the Pens to buyout MAF, they would push hard to sign him as a FA (I haven't looked at the UFA goalie market for then, but I would assume MAF would be head and shoulders the best 1 or 2 on the market, at worst). Being a new team I would imagine they won't take any/many hampering contracts and would have the money to offer MAF something lucrative with good term.

Yup I was thinking more like Fleury not wanting to sign with an expansion team that could suck for a while. Pens may not have tons of trade options for MAF (or maybe they will, time will tell), but I can imagine a number of teams being interested in him in free agency.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

The fact that they don't like Pouliot is kind of ridiculous, as much as I totally believe it's true. This time last year he was the presumed golden boy; the org considered it a major victory that they kept him out of the Kessel trade.

Something about his dedication in the weight room, blah blah blah.

His issue hasn't been strength since his draft year and I haven't seen any evidence it has held him back in the NHL. His issues are almost exclusively positional and that doesn't correct itself without playing time.

So whether they like him or not, it's time they let him develop. Shero used a prime asset to make him part of the org, and they can't allow his value to diminish anymore.

He needs to play regular minutes at this point to develop and he was doing exactly what you would expect from a young kid like him until Schultz arrived. He was being responsible and taking care of his own end first, and not pushing the envelope at the other end.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I wouldn't lose any sleep if they decided to move Pouliot. I don't really see anything in him whatsoever, and I doubt he's ever going to dethrone Letang as the go-to PP guy. Can't imagine they're very happy with him after seeing him play like a zombie on the ice, and looking like he washes down Big Macs with chocolate shakes in those summer photos.

I just hope the organization's (alleged) disdain for Pouliot doesn't mean they simply dump him for nothing like they did with Despres.

 

[Return of the Paek]

Whatever they think of Pouliot, I just hope he gets a fair shot.

Absolutely agree. Could Pouliot really be worse than Cole (who had a decent playoff run) after factoring Pouliot's offensive upside?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I wouldn't lose any sleep if they decided to move Pouliot. I don't really see anything in him whatsoever, and I doubt he's ever going to dethrone Letang as the go-to PP guy. Can't imagine they're very happy with him after seeing him play like a zombie on the ice, and looking like he washes down Big Macs with chocolate shakes in those summer photos.

I just hope the organization's (alleged) disdain for Pouliot doesn't mean they simply dump him for nothing like they did with Despres.

Keep in mind this was the same attitude many around here had towards Dumo last summer. I know I have beat on this drum before, but there is a very good reason why I do...

DP was always a project. I said that from day one, but people wanted an insta-star because of where he was picked.

It doesn't really work that way just because we want it to.

 

[hooverdam]

Keep in mind this was the same attitude many around here had towards Dumo last summer. I know I have beat on this drum before, but there is a very good reason why I do...

DP was always a project. I said that from day one, but people wanted an insta-star because of where he was picked.

It doesn't really work that way just because we want it to.

My biggest problem is that the team seems to have felt this way too. They wanted him to be a top 4 defenseman after a good half a season and when he stumbled in camp and didn't make it, it was like he personally offended all of them. It's like they were counting on him being ready last September and when he wasn't, they completely panicked and then turned on him.

This was all after they pumped up him training with Gary Roberts, put him in all the preseason promotional stuff, had a bunch of fluff pieces about what a good mentor Gonchar would be for him...that all vanished in like a week. It's really insane how fast they can turn on a player.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Yup I was thinking more like Fleury not wanting to sign with an expansion team that could suck for a while. Pens may not have tons of trade options for MAF (or maybe they will, time will tell), but I can imagine a number of teams being interested in him in free agency.

I think LV will be a different beast as an expansion team. As Bettman said, the goal is to make them as competitive as possible. The roster protection rules guaranteed them a better start, couple that with them being the only expansion team, so the pool is their to choose from, not split in half. Plus the league is growing younger and faster and a lot of overlooked players are making waves (not MSL waves, but competent NHLers).

I think we'll know a lot more about their directions and immediate future once the management team is put together, but I have a feeling that the Vegas team won't have the true expansion stigma... if they don't recycle old fossils in their FO, that is.

 

[Zero Pucks]

Keep in mind this was the same attitude many around here had towards Dumo last summer. I know I have beat on this drum before, but there is a very good reason why I do...

DP was always a project. I said that from day one, but people wanted an insta-star because of where he was picked.

It doesn't really work that way just because we want it to.

It doesn't help that almost all of us wanted one of those guys that signed and are set to sign 5-6 million multi-year contracts.

I'm not ready to threw Pouliot away for nothing, I still think he has value. But it's painful to pick him where we did, and are still wondering whether or not he's even going to be in our lineup next year.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Fair point about Dumo. I was one of those people that thought Dumo wouldn't be anything more than a good bottom pairing guy. Still, it's a lot easier for a guy like Dumo--who isn't essentially a one-trick pony, PP guy--to carve out his spot in the lineup. DP's projection has always been nothing more than a PP specialist who will likely need sheltered minutes/role at ES. Even at his best at the NHL level, all I've ever seen from Pouliot was a pedestrian player. Maybe it's a confidence thing, maybe it's a coaching thing, maybe it's a conditioning thing... Whatever it is, it's not great.

I'm not even really worried about DP being the 8th overall pick anymore. It was a dumb pick at the time, and there's an abundance of evidence since then that supports the idea it was the wrong pick. I just hope we move on from it, because I personally don't see anything special in the kid. Hopefully he still has some sort of value on the trade market based on his draft pedigree and age, because we have bigger holes to worry about than a guy slotting in as our 6th/7th defenseman. Namely the scoring line LW situation. If we can package Pouliot with MAF to Dallas for something like Niemi and Janmark or Nuke, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Keep in mind this was the same attitude many around here had towards Dumo last summer. I know I have beat on this drum before, but there is a very good reason why I do...

DP was always a project. I said that from day one, but people wanted an insta-star because of where he was picked.

It doesn't really work that way just because we want it to.

What do you see as Pouliot's upside? Not sure if you're a fan of comparables, but would a Brian Campbell or Alex Goligoski be the type of top end he has? Duncan Keith? Nick Leddy?

I'll admit I don't see the special quality in him that some do. Even when he's been given an opportunity, he's looked at best "solid". I can't recall a single NHL game where he put on the kind of display that made me think he'd be a future top pairing stud.

 

[Shady Machine]

I wouldn't lose any sleep if they decided to move Pouliot. I don't really see anything in him whatsoever, and I doubt he's ever going to dethrone Letang as the go-to PP guy. Can't imagine they're very happy with him after seeing him play like a zombie on the ice, and looking like he washes down Big Macs with chocolate shakes in those summer photos.

I just hope the organization's (alleged) disdain for Pouliot doesn't mean they simply dump him for nothing like they did with Despres.

Always one for the strong opinions of players