Prospect Info: 2016-17 Flyers Prospects - Top 20 SKATERS, #10

[FLYguy3911]

I must just like Hagg's skating better than you do, because on that scale I'd certainly place Hagg at "plus" rather than above-average.

I like Hagg's skating better than Morin's at this point. That isn't because Morin can't chew up tons of space in short order; he can. It's because Hagg's agility, edgework, balance, turning skills, and skating with the puck are much smoother.

Grades aside, for someone who values stat lines more than most, I do find it a bit ironic that you are high on Hagg (relatively speaking) despite some pretty pedestrian numbers the last 4 seasons outside of Junior hockey. I don't want to speak for you, but Hagg "sucked" last year right?

 

[Curufinwe]

In the Phantoms games I watched Hagg was not a plus skater. His movement around the ice was no better than MacDonald's.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Grades aside, for someone who values stat lines more than most, I do find it a bit ironic that you are high on Hagg (relatively speaking) despite some pretty pedestrian numbers the last 4 seasons outside of Junior hockey. I don't want to speak for you, but Hagg "sucked" last year right?

Hagg definitely sucked last year.

But I give him credit for playing regularly in the SHL when he was 17 and 18; for playing in 3 WJCs for Team Sweden; and for putting up 20 points in 69 games as a 19 year old rookie defenseman in the AHL before an albeit disappointing second AHL season.

Also, whenever I watch Hagg, I can't shake the opinion that he should be at worst a solid 3rd pair blueliner in the NHL on natural ability alone. But it seems many people don't agree with my evaluation of his natural physical talent and skating skills, and I could be wrong. We'll see how it plays out.

I think perhaps people forget how young he still is and how for the past four years he's been among the very youngest players in two of the highest level professional leagues in the world.

Regardless, we're talking about a vote for #10 where I still gave Friedman the very slight edge.

 

[StoneHands]

People voting Hagg over Allison, it seems like you are weighing familiarity over performance. How does 3 years of rocky play by a former 2nd round prospect still leave him sandwiched between 3 of the Flyers more recent 2nd rounders?

I wouldn't say Hagg has had 3 rocky seasons. He was playing in arguably the 3rd best league in the world as an 18 year old defenseman and actually didn't play bad. Just because he didn't dominate doesn't mean he was bad. Then he comes to NA for the first time and plays in the AHL for 2 seasons at 19 and 20 years old where there are very few players as young as he was. Again, it's not that crazy that he hasn't excelled. Hagg could easily have been in juniors or college the last couple seasons and dominated but instead he's been playing against the big boys so his stock takes a hit. If Allison excels this season and takes strides forward while Hagg stagnates or regresses, Allison will jump over him but for now, Hagg has proven that he can at least play in the AHL at a very young age and that's more than I've seen from Allison. That's just my opinion though.

 

[FLYguy3911]

But I give him credit for playing regularly in the SHL when he was 17 and 18; for playing in 3 WJCs for Team Sweden; and for putting up 20 points in 69 games as a 19 year old rookie defenseman in the AHL before an albeit disappointing second AHL season.

You're entitled to your opinion but his 17 and 18 year old seasons are of little importance now that he'll be turning 22 during the season. There is more relevant data and events to evaluate. World Juniors? That's great but again that's in the distant past. And you could make a case he looked better at 17 than he did at 19 at those WJCs. 20 points is a good number for a 19 year old defenseman, but then you consider he had 10 points in his first 15 games and it doesn't seem quite as impressive. And then he had the season he just had. You want to see guys improve, not take steps backwards. When that happens at his age, it's a warning sign.

I think perhaps people forget how young he still is and how for the past four years he's been among the very youngest players in two of the highest level professional leagues in the world.

He is young and I'm not one of those guys that wants to trade him because he had a bad year. He has two years to figure out something and find a niche as an NHL player because right now he doesn't have one. He needs to get going.

 

[Curufinwe]

Really, 15-16 was Hagg's first rocky season but it was the season everyone rightfully expected him to take a step forward. So it's not surprising or unfair that he'll end up our 11th or 12th favorite prospect considering all the guys who had strong years.

 

[StoneHands]

Really, 15-16 was Hagg's first rocky season but it was the season everyone rightfully expected him to take a step forward. So it's not surprising or unfair that he'll end up our 11th or 12th favorite prospect considering all the guys who had strong years.

The fact that our 11th or 12th best skater prospect could be an decent NHL player is fine with me, regardless of who it is.

 

[tade]

Pens top 5 prospects: Sprong, Guentzel, Sundqvist, Simon, Bengtsson

have a good laugh

 

[Rebels57]

Pens top 5 prospects: Sprong, Guentzel, Sundqvist, Simon, Bengtsson

have a good laugh

I wish I could, but they just..ya know..won the Cup.

 

[Striiker]

It sucks they won the cup, but it's nice to think that in a few years when Crosby and Malkin are declining, and then eventually retire, they're going to have a nice long period of time where they're bottom feeders who cant even give away tickets.

Seattle Penguins.

Quebec Penguins.

Kansas City Penguins

Not sure which is best...

 

[WastedTalent]

Pens top 5 prospects: Sprong, Guentzel, Sundqvist, Simon, Bengtsson

have a good laugh

They just won they cup I'm sure they aren't taking it too hard that their prospect pool is below average

 

[Rebels57]

It sucks they won the cup, but it's nice to think that in a few years when Crosby and Malkin are declining, and then eventually retire, they're going to have a nice long period of time where they're bottom feeders who cant even give away tickets.

Seattle Penguins.

Quebec Penguins.

Kansas City Penguins

Not sure which is best...

I can definitely envision Pittsburgh relocating to Quebec in 10-15 years.

 

[Caser]

It sucks they won the cup, but it's nice to think that in a few years when Crosby and Malkin are declining, and then eventually retire, they're going to have a nice long period of time where they're bottom feeders who cant even give away tickets.

Seattle Penguins.

Quebec Penguins.

Kansas City Penguins

Not sure which is best...

Madagascar?

 

[Striiker]

Madagascar?

Good point, no reason they have to stay in North America.

Pyongyang Penguins?

 

[Dabest]

I think Vorobyov is a sleeper

 

[Jray42]

Good point, no reason they have to stay in North America.

Pyongyang Penguins?

 

[onlylordsvsmorebp]

I think Vorobyov is a sleeper

so do i... from the limited amount of him ive seen, i really like him. great size and skill. plus hes a smart guy on the ice...makes really intelligent plays with the puck. great setup man. he scored some nice goals too.

 

[daynus]

Went big red.
Hagg-Friedman or Friedman-hagg next.
I mean with a deep prospect pool, to have guys of this ilk around 10,11,12, means we have quality. Thanx to hexy.

 

[lancer247]

I keep seeing people say Hagg has had 3 rocket seasons but won't this season coming up be his 2nd full season?

I came over with a few weeks left in '14-15 that were really good. Last season was his first full season, right?

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I keep seeing people say Hagg has had 3 rocket seasons but won't this season coming up be his 2nd full season?

I came over with a few weeks left in '14-15 that were really good. Last season was his first full season, right?

Second season in NA but third season since being in the organization. The first year went pretty much how last year went. Good start & finish to the year but bad in between that (the start & in between was in the SHL while the finish was in the AHL). He even got buried on the depth chart in Modo & was getting scratched at points.

 

[Appleyard]

Second season in NA but third season since being in the organization. The first year went pretty much how last year went. Good start & finish to the year but bad in between that (the start & in between was in the SHL while the finish was in the AHL). He even got buried on the depth chart in Modo & was getting scratched at points.

Tbf to Hägg his level of play at Modo was not bad at all... and he was only twice a healthy scratch... he just went from being ~#4-#7 over course of year with no consistency. Multiple times he had a great run of ~3-4 games where he worked his way up to playing at #4/5 with ~16 minutes a night... but then made one mistake and was immediately the #7 playing ~5-10 mins for a few games in a row.

On merit he should probably have been their #5D consistently... but was dicked around like a lot of young Modo players in the last few years which has quite frankly partially led to the position they are in today... being a 2nd tier team in Sweden.

Even still he was the only Dman his age or younger to be an SHL regular that season.


2013-14 & 2014-15 were nothing exceptional from him... but pretty much what he was expected to do at those ages to have a decent chance to develop into the ~#4 NHL Dman many thought he could be... but 2015-16 was ofc pretty poor and not the incremental step forward you want from young players.

 

[Newest sens fan]

Hogberg here AINEC

 

[Ghosts Beer]

You're entitled to your opinion but his 17 and 18 year old seasons are of little importance now that he'll be turning 22 during the season. There is more relevant data and events to evaluate. World Juniors? That's great but again that's in the distant past. And you could make a case he looked better at 17 than he did at 19 at those WJCs. 20 points is a good number for a 19 year old defenseman, but then you consider he had 10 points in his first 15 games and it doesn't seem quite as impressive. And then he had the season he just had. You want to see guys improve, not take steps backwards. When that happens at his age, it's a warning sign.


He is young and I'm not one of those guys that wants to trade him because he had a bad year. He has two years to figure out something and find a niche as an NHL player because right now he doesn't have one. He needs to get going.

Hagg has had only one disappointing season while consistently being one of the youngest players in high-level professional leagues. Granted, it was his most recent season. So I understand the viewpoint to give it extra weight. That's why I personally rate him roughly only the team's 10th best prospect, and rank Friedman slightly ahead of him.

I'm not going to know where to rank Allison until I see how he performs this season. I understand why many people decided to place him ahead of Friedman and Hagg -- the enticing unknown factor -- but he's got one good season as a below PPG forward at age 18 in the USHL.

Meanwhile, Friedman was excellent in the USHL at 17 and 18 and has proven himself further with two strong seasons in the NCAA. And beyond just stats, I'm really impressed by him via the so-called "eye test," as I am with Hagg (though Hagg could very much be a player who looks great in practice and for whatever reason struggles to translate it to game success).

 

[Striiker]

Voted Allison again.

Love his potential.

 

[StoneHands]

I keep seeing people say Hagg has had 3 rocket seasons but won't this season coming up be his 2nd full season?

I came over with a few weeks left in '14-15 that were really good. Last season was his first full season, right?

Hagg came over at the end of '13-'14 and played 10 games in the AHL. He played 69 games in '14-'15 and 65 games in '15-'16 so this will be his 3rd full season in NA. He also played a full season in the SHL in '13-'14 which was the season after his draft so this will be his 4th season post draft and 5th professional season (222 games total I believe).