Prospect Info: 2016-17 Flyers Prospects - Top 20 SKATERS, #10

[Curufinwe]

1. Provorov, Ivan (88%)
2. Sanheim, Travis (75%)
3. Konecny, Travis (85%)
4. Morin, Sam (54%)
5. Rubtsov, German (79%)
6. Myers, Phil (56%)
7. Lindblom, Oskar (54%)
8. Laberge, Pascal (68%)
9. Aube-Kubel, Nicolas (63%)

Alt, Mark
Allison, Wade
Amorosa, Terrance
Bardreau, Cole
Bernhardt, David
Bunnaman, Connor
Dove-McFalls, Samuel
Drake, David
Fazleev, Radel
Friedman, Mark
Goulbourne, Tyrell
Hagg, Robert
Hogberg, Linus
Kase, David
Laczynski, Tanner
Leier, Taylor
Lyubimov, Roman
Martel, Danick
Marody, Cooper
Pettersson, Jesper
Salinitri, Anthony
Straka, Petr
Twarynski, Carson
Vorobyov, Mikhail
Weal, Jordan
Willcox, Reece
Vasiliev, Valeri

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[JojoTheWhale]

I went Allison for the standard reasons, but Friedman and Vorobyov were absolutely strong contenders. They'll be my next 2 for sure before a sizable drop.

 

[Roo Mad Bro]

Wade Allison. Love his power forward upside.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Fir...Damnit. Went with Hagg. Not sure he is ever a regular with the Flyers simply because of who is ahead of him on the depth chart, but I think he'll have a lengthy NHL career somewhere.

 

[sa cyred]

I went Hagg here. I know he has had up and down seasons, but I think some people forget he just played as a 20 yr old turning 21 last season (the age most rookies first play in the AHL).

Combined with the fact that it was said he was hurt last season, played hurt, and when he was healthy he started to do extremely well, goes to show he must have something there. This is a big season for him though.

 

[tade]

At this point, I went with Mark Friedman.

#10 should be interesting poll.

 

[Damaged Goods]

People voting Hagg over Allison, it seems like you are weighing familiarity over performance. How does 3 years of rocky play by a former 2nd round prospect still leave him sandwiched between 3 of the Flyers more recent 2nd rounders?

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

People voting Hagg over Allison, it seems like you are weighing familiarity over performance. How does 3 years of rocky play by a former 2nd round prospect still leave him sandwiched between 3 of the Flyers more recent 2nd rounders?

Whatever happened to defensemen take longer to develop and defensive prospects are more valuable than forward prospects? Or does that only apply to Morin?

Hagg's demise seems to be greatly over-exaggerated. From everything I've read it seems Hagg's biggest issue is consistency. Maybe I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem like he isn't skating well or hasn't developed physically or can't keep up with the pace, it just seems to be that he can't put it together every single night. Not really that crazy for a 21 year old defender. He still does a lot of things well at times and he still makes mistakes at times.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Morin has shown steady progression throughout his first three years. Hagg has not. That's the difference between the two.

 

[deadhead]

Went with Allison, the only top 6 forward left.
Hagg to me is behind Friedman now, he can turn it around but after two AHL seasons, you want to see some real progress.
Leier & Twarynski might be slightly ahead of the "checking" centers, Lyubimov, Vorobyov, Dove-McFalls and Bunnaman.
Kase and Marody have more upside but longer odds against them.

Really we're in the "throw the names in a hat" area, but still above "marginal prospect with AHL upside" like Bardreau, Ghoul, etc. who used to fill out our top ten lists.

 

[Damaged Goods]

Whatever happened to defensemen take longer to develop and defensive prospects are more valuable than forward prospects? Or does that only apply to Morin?

Hagg's demise seems to be greatly over-exaggerated. From everything I've read it seems Hagg's biggest issue is consistency. Maybe I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem like he isn't skating well or hasn't developed physically or can't keep up with the pace, it just seems to be that he can't put it together every single night. Not really that crazy for a 21 year old defender. He still does a lot of things well at times and he still makes mistakes at times.

He was a good skater and well developed physically when he was drafted. That doesn't explain why he should be valued roughly the same as the Flyers more recent 2nd rounders after essentially stalling for 3 years.

 

[Jray42]

I went with Friedman

 

[sobrien]

Went with Hagg. He's got all the tools and an NHL body, and now hopefully the health and desire to put it together. I still think he could be a good 2nd pairing D/extraordinary 3rd pairing D in the NHL.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Voted Allison.

I don't think Hagg's problem is consistency so much (that applies much more to Morin). He just does very little to impact the game- offensively, defensively, powerplay, penalty kill. There's nothing that really stands out about him that makes me think he's a bonafide NHL player. He's just a guy. He has OK tools, but most of his problems are above the shoulders and I don't anticipate that changing. Wasn't even a thought of him being a top 10 skater for me.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

He was a good skater and well developed physically when he was drafted. That doesn't explain why he should be valued roughly the same as the Flyers more recent 2nd rounders after essentially stalling for 3 years.

But it does explain it. You may not like the explanation but that's the explanation. He has the tools to be an NHL player. That's the explanation.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

But it does explain it. You may not like the explanation but that's the explanation. He has the tools to be an NHL player. That's the explanation.

The pool of guys that have the tools to be an NHL player is about 20 deep at this point. The question is why he would be ranked above so many of them.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

The pool of guys that have the tools to be an NHL player is about 20 deep at this point. The question is why he would be ranked above so many of them.

Which was also explained in the original post. He's a good skater, he's a big guy, and he isn't struggling with the pace of the game, it appears to be a consistency issue. For instance, this article says almost exactly what I said in my first post in this thread...

If you look at Hagg’s physical tools and abilities you can’t help but be impressed. He has great vision, a high hockey IQ and skates very well. I can’t say enough about the tremendous potential he has. But there is a negative point coming as you can imagine.

The biggest knock on Hagg has been issues with consistency and its isn’t only a game-to-game problem, it’s shift to shift. Although, he has been a healthy scratch quite a few times this season due to this same issue. And Hagg’s struggles are mostly mental, when he’s playing well he’s unstoppable.

...

And it really is a shame because he has all of the tools to be a solid NHL defender, but the reality of the situation is that there are only so many roster spots for defenders. Others within the Flyers farm system are perceived as having higher upside and Hagg could be passed over in favor of another. It’s also worth noting that the Flyers have plenty of time to decide on him, as he’s signed for the next two seasons. This does not guarantee that he finishes that contract with Philadelphia, because if another team shows interest and the Flyers are looking to make a trade, I personally believe Hagg will be available in negotiations.

http://thehockeywriters.com/philadelphia-flyers-prospect-update-robert-hagg/

I'm sure there is an article out there that says the opposite that you can post, but again, these are the reasons I am voting for him. In the end, you might be right, but don't act like there is simply no possible way someone could vote for him.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Of the names left, I think this is between Friedman and Hagg.

I'll vote Friedman, considering he's RH, may have an edge in grit, and Hagg's disappointing season is still lingering in the air, but it could go either way. Hagg may have a big bounceback year.

Both Friedman and Hagg are fantastic skaters on the blueline. And both flash NHL skill levels, with Friedman's shot in particular standing out. Nice battle to have for #10.

I can't put Allison above Hagg yet off 1 good season in the USHL at 18, when Hagg has 2 seasons in the SEL, 2 in the AHL, and 3 WJCs to his name at only 21, and Friedman has two seasons in the WCHA where he made All Rookie Team (2014) and First All Star Team (2015).

 

[FLYguy3911]

I think Hagg's tools are often overstated by some. Only tool I'd grade as 'plus' is his slap shot but he's rarely in a position to utilize it- as the 8 total goals across 134 games the last 2 seasons suggest.

 

[dats81]

I was torn between Allison and Hääg.
Both have the potential to be very solid complementary pieces to a cup winning team somewhere in the future.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Which was also explained in the original post. He's a good skater, he's a big guy, and he isn't struggling with the pace of the game, it appears to be a consistency issue. For instance, this article says almost exactly what I said in my first post in this thread...

I don't think anyone is saying he's hopeless or anything. Meltzer even agrees with you, which is as strong an endorsement as possible from Flyers' related media. Schenn didn't put it all together (we hope) until 24. It could be a function of watching many less Phantoms games than I do Flyers, but Hagg hasn't shown the kind of flashes that give me hope.

With that being said, the sum of his parts has never added up well due to what everyone seems to agree are mental issues. 3 years isn't enough to start dropping him in the hierarchy for guys who haven't had the same level of stagnation? What does he have over Friedman besides 3 inches and draft position? His best asset is his shot and Friedman's is better.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

I don't think anyone is saying he's hopeless or anything. Meltzer even agrees with you, which is as strong an endorsement as possible from Flyers' related media. Schenn didn't put it all together (we hope) until 24. It could be a function of watching many less Phantoms games than I do Flyers, but Hagg hasn't shown the kind of flashes that give me hope.

With that being said, the sum of his parts has never added up well due to what everyone seems to agree are mental issues. 3 years isn't enough to start dropping him in the hierarchy for guys who haven't had the same level of stagnation? What does he have over Friedman besides 3 inches and draft position? His best asset is his shot and Friedman's is better.

Again, there are cases to be made for probably five or six guys or so at this spot, but I went with Hagg for the reasons stated. I understand why someone would go for Allison or Friedman or Leier or Vorobyov or even a guy like Marody. Someone asked how to I could possible vote Hagg over Allison. I explained. I'm not saying that there is no other solution and he is the only pick, only responding as to why I voted for him. I'm not sure what else needs to be said about this.

 

[Flyotes]

I've been voting Friedman for awhile. A little surprised by your opinions.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I think Hagg's tools are often overstated by some. Only tool I'd grade as 'plus' is his slap shot but he's rarely in a position to utilize it- as the 8 total goals across 134 games the last 2 seasons suggest.

I guess it depends on if you consider skating a tool. His skating is smooth as silk. After that, though, he does a bunch of things that would rate as "good" not "great."

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

I've been voting Friedman for awhile. A little surprised by your opinions.

Not really sure what is so surprising about it. There's 17 other people that have voted for Hagg thus far and plenty of folks who do not frequent these boards that would agree as well (even the great Bill Meltzer apparently agrees with me according to someone). Doesn't mean that we are right, but this isn't some crazy position I'm taking here.