Prospect Info: 2016-17 Flyers Prospects - Top 20 SKATERS, #10

FLYguy3911

Sanheim Lover
Oct 19, 2006
53,104
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I guess it depends on if you consider skating a tool. His skating is smooth as silk. After that, though, he does a bunch of things that would rate as "good" not "great."

You described his skating as "fantastic". I think he's a good overall skater. It won't prevent him from becoming an NHL player or anything, but I don't see him as a very flexible or deceptive skater. His top end speed isn't all that great either. When I think of a fantastic skater I think of a guy like Gostisbehere.
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,839
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Nova Scotia
I am hoping Hagg builds on the way he ended last year and has a bit of a breakout year. But even if he does, I am not sure he can be better that the guys in front of him...so will he get a chance even if he does?

Friedman has done well since being drafted...but will he bolt due to competition?

Allison has a lot of guys to compete with on the right side.

Gonna go with Friedman!
 

BackWithaVengeance

Registered User
Jan 19, 2008
2,442
711
Germany
From here on it gets really tough.

Allison, Hägg, Friedman, Fazleev, Leier.

So many guys to choose from.

Went with Vorobyov. He's in the KHL right now playing against men and if the first exhibition game was any indication, he could be in their top-9.
 

Stizzle

Registered User
Feb 3, 2012
13,209
23,193
I went Hagg here. I know he has had up and down seasons, but I think some people forget he just played as a 20 yr old turning 21 last season (the age most rookies first play in the AHL).

Combined with the fact that it was said he was hurt last season, played hurt, and when he was healthy he started to do extremely well, goes to show he must have something there. This is a big season for him though.

Remind me when this was. I'm not recalling this.
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,839
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Nova Scotia
Remind me when this was. I'm not recalling this.

“I am hoping to have that breakout year,” Hagg said after one of the training sessions at the camp. “You want to have that breakout year every year. Hopefully, this year it’s finally going to happen.”
Hagg thought it was going to occur last year with the Lehigh Valley Phantoms, his second with the Flyers American Hockey League affiliate. Instead, he suffered an injury in the second game of the season, missed a month and didn’t find a groove until the final two months of the year.
After scoring three goals and adding 17 assists in 69 games in 2014-15 with the Phantoms, Hagg finished with five goals and six assists in 65 games.
“I was real happy with the start of the year last. I had a real good [training] camp,” said Hagg, who is considered a puck-carrying defenseman that is solid in his own end. “After that I had a tough year. I couldn’t put it all together. The last two months I finished up good, I thought.”
Hagg expects to pick up in the fall where he left off in the spring.
“He had a tough time last year,” said Kjell Samuelsson, who was one of the coaches at the development camp. “But I think he really came along after Christmas and he did pretty well. I think he is on the right track.”

http://touch.metro.us//sports/flyer...-for-a-break-out-year/zsJpgr---HF0On1aennbo2/

Here is a very long blog on Hagg....ever gives him letter grades by month. Interesting read. With AMac being called up, he saw his icetime increase, and he played better.

http://highlandparkhockey.blogspot.ca/2016/05/the-great-debate-where-does-robert-hagg.html

credit to TonyAndrock for a great article!

Phantoms' Head Coach Scott Gordon:

Basically for four or five months, his idea of transition was getting the puck and going for the home run play at the far blue line, waiting for options to materialize that never materialized. The pressure was coming to him and he was retreating back into the zone and my conversation with him throughout the year – this isn’t Europe. When you play in a bigger rink you have the opportunity if you don’t like it, to take it back. Because the rink is bigger, the forwards have more room to move around. The seams are bigger, the spacing is different and there’s more things you can make happen not just from a possession standpoint but how the pressure comes from the opposition. European hockey is a lot more patience on the fore-check. So what I said to him is that you’re playing like you are over in Europe that you have all that time and space. Then what’s happening when you don’t get your option you have cornered yourself so you can’t make a play. And then you’re making a last ditch effort, icing the puck and then you’re stuck in your zone which in turn means you can’t play in the offensive zone. You’re playing tired because you needed a change.
The whole thing snowballed from what he was doing with the puck. Combine that with shots getting blocked and coming right back at him. He’s now playing more in the offensive zone because of his decisions with the puck to make the easier 10-foot pass than to try to go for the 120-foot pass. As a result, there is less turnovers and he’s getting up into the play. You pass from the goal line to the far blue line you can’t be a part of the attack. Put that all together and that’s where he is today.
 
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Curufinwe

Registered User
Feb 28, 2013
55,745
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http://www.courierpostonline.com/st...pects-mature-through-adversity-pros/86868162/

Hagg left the Flyers before last season under the impression he and Shayne Gostisbehere were in similar spots as far as career progression.

But, an oblique injury shelved him for five weeks. In the meantime, Gostisbehere became a smash hit in Philadelphia as a rookie sensation on the blue line.

“Me and Ghost were pretty much in the same position last year when we got sent down to Lehigh,” Hagg recalled. “Look at Ghost last year, he had an unbelievable year. I’m real happy for him. And that motivates yourself, you hope you’re the next guy to get called up and hopefully have the same career but it’s going to be tough.”

The injury – which happened in a practice – started a forgettable season. When the 2013 second-round draft pick returned to action, he struggled.

“When I came back, I couldn’t put it together. I don’t know what happened,” Hagg explained. “I had to start all over and talk a lot with (Flyers’ player development assistant Kjell Samuelsson). He helped me through this and I think the last two months, I got back to it and finished up pretty good.”
 

Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
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You described his skating as "fantastic". I think he's a good overall skater. It won't prevent him from becoming an NHL player or anything, but I don't see him as a very flexible or deceptive skater. His top end speed isn't all that great either. When I think of a fantastic skater I think of a guy like Gostisbehere.

I do consider Hagg a fantastic skater in general. That doesn't mean every aspect of his skating is off-the-charts -- I'm not saying he'd beat Konecny in a straight line race, or pull a deke like Ghost -- but his skating is beautiful in the way Kim Johnsson's was before the injuries. Effortless, strong, fluid, agile.
But even if we want to quibble about fantastic being hyperbole, I think we can agree that Hagg's skating would absolutely qualify as a "plus" tool.
 

FlyTimmo

pit <3
Jul 10, 2013
12,430
10,461
I still have faith that Hagg could be a really good guy in our final pairing, but I voted Allison. He has real scoring potential.
 

Hockeypete49

How you like me now!
Mar 22, 2009
6,914
417
South Jersey
Big Allison fan and was happy when he was drafted. But it was tough not to pick Hagg here. I really hope this young man steps it up cause he has a world of talent. Nice top ten though huh folks?
 

Garbage Goal

Registered User
Apr 1, 2009
22,699
4,591
Allison, just because there's so many guys here in the same tier with similar levels of hype that Allison is the only one who stands out from that glut in any sort of way.
 

FLYguy3911

Sanheim Lover
Oct 19, 2006
53,104
86,442
But even if we want to quibble about fantastic being hyperbole, I think we can agree that Hagg's skating would absolutely qualify as a "plus" tool.
That's the thing. I don't agree and maybe it's semantics, but I would say he's more above average than plus. If you follow baseball scouting at all, plus grades do not get thrown around easily. And if he's plus what are guys like Sanheim, Konecny, Provorov, and even Morin considered??

As a reference, I would say a grading scale would look something like this:

World Class
Plus-Plus
Plus
Above average
Average
Below Average
Well Below Average
"Doesn't Belong in the League"
 

Appleyard

Registered User
Mar 5, 2010
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Voted Hagg, but only just.

I see his absolute upside now as a decent #4 who can get ~20-25 point and be a good defensive player.

The most frustrating things are still the mental lapses though, especially on the back-end... he can shadow a player all game and give them nothing and then do something stupid that results in a goal.

I do think that if he is an NHLer he will get there based on his D+outlet play, as he is just too passive offensively to be more than a solid puck-mover who scores the occasional booming shot.

To do that though he has to show more in the upcoming season. He has to play more PK instead of being 5th man/4th man at times and consistently outmatch opponents instead of making several great defensive plays then making one awful one.


My logic on him vs Allison was simply:

Realistic upside: ~#4D vs 2nd line winger. + the fact Hagg is 3 years in and while not developing as hoped has still not 'busted'... which quite a few from his draft have tbh.
 

Roo Mad Bro

U havin a giggle m8?
Dec 6, 2010
9,948
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PA
That's the thing. I don't agree and maybe it's semantics, but I would say he's more above average than plus. If you follow baseball scouting at all, plus grades do not get thrown around easily. And if he's plus what are guys like Sanheim, Konecny, Provorov, and even Morin considered??

As a reference, I would say a grading scale would look something like this:

World Class
Plus-Plus
Plus
Above average
Average
Below Average
Well Below Average
"Doesn't Belong in the League"
I'm a fan of the 20-80 grades. Most found in baseball circles but can be used for hockey.
 

onlylordsvsmorebp

HEAVYHOCKEY ENTHUSIAST
Dec 27, 2011
6,242
6,716
VAN ISLE CANADA
Allison...going to be a stud scoring winger for us. i can just feel it. besides, his "epic ginger" quotient is off the scale.

also still believe Hagg is going to be a really good player for us too.
 

lancer247

Registered User
Jan 16, 2007
4,781
888
Went with Hagg. He's got all the tools and an NHL body, and now hopefully the health and desire to put it together. I still think he could be a good 2nd pairing D/extraordinary 3rd pairing D in the NHL.

Yeah, I think people have soured on Hagg way too soon.
 

FLYguy3911

Sanheim Lover
Oct 19, 2006
53,104
86,442
I'm a fan of the 20-80 grades. Most found in baseball circles but can be used for hockey.

Yeah, although could you imagine the main boards if each prospect had numeric grades floating around on the internet...:laugh:. This place is already tough to begin with.
 

Larry44

#FireTortsNOW
Mar 1, 2002
11,959
7,291
Whatever happened to defensemen take longer to develop and defensive prospects are more valuable than forward prospects? Or does that only apply to Morin? :sarcasm:

Hagg's demise seems to be greatly over-exaggerated. From everything I've read it seems Hagg's biggest issue is consistency. Maybe I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem like he isn't skating well or hasn't developed physically or can't keep up with the pace, it just seems to be that he can't put it together every single night. Not really that crazy for a 21 year old defender. He still does a lot of things well at times and he still makes mistakes at times.

Thank you. Everyone preaches patience with D prospects except when it takes time.
 

Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
22,619
16,426
That's the thing. I don't agree and maybe it's semantics, but I would say he's more above average than plus. If you follow baseball scouting at all, plus grades do not get thrown around easily. And if he's plus what are guys like Sanheim, Konecny, Provorov, and even Morin considered??

As a reference, I would say a grading scale would look something like this:

World Class
Plus-Plus
Plus
Above average
Average
Below Average
Well Below Average
"Doesn't Belong in the League"

I must just like Hagg's skating better than you do, because on that scale I'd certainly place Hagg at "plus" rather than above-average.

I like Hagg's skating better than Morin's at this point. That isn't because Morin can't chew up tons of space in short order; he can. It's because Hagg's agility, edgework, balance, turning skills, and skating with the puck are much smoother.
 

LegionOfDoom91

Registered User
Jan 25, 2013
81,998
139,853
Philadelphia, PA
Hagg was drafted as a physically mature prospect & three years in has still struggled to show any steady progression. He's also not a guy with standout traits. There's nothing wrong with being very skeptical of him at this point.

He's in the same boat with guys like Leier, Bardreau, Fazleev, etc. for me. I don't think he has high upside & he's not a shoe in to stick at the NHL level right now.
 

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