2016-17 Blues Discussion Thread Part I

[joshyhockey26]

Our only hope for a top 9 center in our system in Barbashev. Everyone else is either a winger or garbage. We'll just keep trying to patch that hole in free agency I guess.

No different than what the Blues have done for years. Sadly

 

[joshyhockey26]

Centers wise that is

 

[Balloon]

Our only hope for a top 9 center in our system in Barbashev. Everyone else is either a winger or garbage. We'll just keep trying to patch that hole in free agency I guess.

It's pretty premature to say that Kyrou and Thompson won't end up as centers in the NHL (unless you're saying that they won't end up as top 9 players at all, which would be even more premature).

 

[EastonBlues22]

It's pretty premature to say that Kyrou and Thompson won't end up as centers in the NHL (unless you're saying that they won't end up as top 9 players at all, which would be even more premature).

I think the Blues will prefer to see Kyrou on the wing, where his speed is more likely to shine. He doesn't strike me as the sort the Blues are going to want mucking it up in the defensive zone on the boards and around the net.

I could see them trying Thompson at center, but he really needs to be learning/playing the position in college, because it's going to be a lot harder to transition there once he hits the pros.

If we're counting chickens, so to speak, then neither one of these guys qualifies yet IMO. The Blues should be planning for what's probable, and if they happen to get a favorable organizational bonus along the way, then all the better.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

As up and down as the Blues have played, and as frustrating as they have been to watch at times, I check the standings and they're 2nd in the West (and I don't fear Chicago as a juggernaut the Blues can't compete with). I'm still skeptical about how this team will fare in the post-season environment, but I also think they'll add one or two vets by then.

They ARE playing better. How good can they be? I'm really not sure what my expectations should be.

 

[JoshFromMO]

Here's the projected lineup:

Forwards

Jaden Schwartz - Paul Stastny - David Perron
Robby Fabbri - Alexander Steen - Vladimir Tarasenko
Jori Lehtera - Patrik Berglund - Dmitrij Jaskin
Scottie Upshall - Kyle Brodziak - Ryan Reaves

Defense

Jay Bouwmeester - Alex Pietrangelo
Carl Gunnarsson - Kevin Shattenkirk
Joel Edmundson - Colton Parayko

Goalie

Jake Allen

 

[2 Minute Minor]

I think Fabbri is getting closer to being a legit option at Center. Ideally, you make that switch in the off-season, but I think he could do it if necessary.

 

[Brian39]

I think Fabbri is getting closer to being a legit option at Center. Ideally, you make that switch in the off-season, but I think he could do it if necessary.

I came into this season thinking the Blues were easily good enough to make the playoffs. Based on that thought, I wanted to see a lot of experimentation. Looking at the standings, I'm confident in my initial assessment. Barring major injury problems, I don't see us getting passed by 4 of Minnesota, Winnipeg, Nashville, Dallas and whoever finishes 4th and 5th in the Pacific. Maybe we get passed up and land in the Wild card, but I don't see 4 of those teams passing us to bump us out of the playoffs.

I say all this because I would love to see Fabbri get an extended look at center over the next couple months. Worst case scenario, we drop 3-4 standings points and should still be in decent shape. Realistically, it probably only costs 2 standings points. Usually I'd like to see the transition in the offseason and camp, but we badly need help at center. I'd like to know if Fabbri can do it before making a trade.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Everytime someone asks JR about Fabbri at C he states that both Hitch and Fabbri have no interest in it right now. If Fabbri himself doesn't feel comfortable to want to play C in the NHL, why would Hitch ever try him there?

I haven't watched every minute of this season but I've yet to see Fabs play a single shift at C yet. He's taken some faceoffs lately when Steen was playing C since Steen is abysmal at them but then Fabs would revert back to the LW role after the faceoff.

 

[542365]

Everytime someone asks JR about Fabbri at C he states that both Hitch and Fabbri have no interest in it right now. If Fabbri himself doesn't feel comfortable to want to play C in the NHL, why would Hitch ever try him there?

I haven't watched every minute of this season but I've yet to see Fabs play a single shift at C yet. He's taken some faceoffs lately when Steen was playing C since Steen is abysmal at them but then Fabs would revert back to the LW role after the faceoff.

I agree with this entirely. Bernie was on during the intermission report last night talking about how great Fabs is playing(and he is absolutely right about that) and how he's going to be a great center in this league. They then showed highlights of him winning a faceoff or two. If the only thing a center had to do differently than a winger was take faceoffs, Vladi could be our 1C. I'm sure he could learn how to take a faceoff well. Or Fabbri, or Schwartz. That's not really the main responsibility of a center though, and even professional analysts seem to imply that if one can take faceoffs they can play center. It's so frustrating.

 

[KirkOut]

Some people here think Fabbri being a center will make the team better somehow. Like center is this magical position where if you are a center, you automatically become a better player. Fabbri is the same player whether he's at wing or center. My vote is to continue playing him at the position he has excelled at.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

Some people here think Fabbri being a center will make the team better somehow. Like center is this magical position where if you are a center, you automatically become a better player. Fabbri is the same player whether he's at wing or center. My vote is to continue playing him at the position he has excelled at.

I don't really understand what this post means.

The coach's job is to optimize the TEAM not the player. Even if Fabbri could be more productive at wing, if the team overall is more productive with him at center its the right move. I'm not sure if that is the case right now, but Lehtera is falling off precipitously and something needs to change. Either acquire a player, play Steen there (yuck), settle for Berglund in the top 6 (also yuck), or experiment with someone else.

Fabbri is the most logical choice. He's been tabbed for Center since he was drafted. Its been discussed in the media, with the coach, with the player. Its not some weird idea out of left field. This is probably sooner than anticipated, but his development has been faster than anticipated in many regards.

Again, I'm not adamant about it, or about the timing now. It very well may not be the right thing to do (and obviously Hitch hasn't opted to currently). But I don't get the posts here denigrating people's opinions for wanting to explore this as a solution for the Blues.

 

[Brian39]

Some people here think Fabbri being a center will make the team better somehow. Like center is this magical position where if you are a center, you automatically become a better player. Fabbri is the same player whether he's at wing or center. My vote is to continue playing him at the position he has excelled at.

It isn't that he would be a better player at center. It is that or top 6 currently has a gaping hole at center and we have 3 top 6 LWs. Our 3rd line isn't producing much offense even with one of Steen, Fabbri, or Schwartz down there. If that line is going to be a possession/shut down unit, the ideal setup is to load up the top 6 with as much scoring as we can. Leaving Lehtera or Bergie in the top 6 reduces the offensive effectiveness of one of those lines. It isn't about making Fabbri a better player individually. It is about plugging the hole at center with our LW surplus.

Bergie-Lehtera-Jaskin isn't likely to be much worse offensively than Fabbri/Schwartz/Steen-Bergie-Jaskin. However, if Fabbri can play center effectively, Steen-Fabbri-Perron is likely a lot better offensively than Steen-Lehtera-Perron. it looks like our 3rd line isn't going to contribute a ton offensively, so if we can boost the 2nd line with a better center, it is worth taking talent off of the 3rd line.

TLDR: 2 top 6 LWs and 2 top 6 Cs is better for the team than 3 top 6 LWs and 1 top 6 C.

 

[Alklha]

I think Fabbri is getting closer to being a legit option at Center. Ideally, you make that switch in the off-season, but I think he could do it if necessary.

I don't believe that Fabbri is good enough to be playing at centre full time just now. He doesn't have the defensive game yet.

Keeping him on wing is fine if Lehterä and Stastny are our top-6 centres, the roles are defined pretty clearly there. However, when we have Steen centring Fabbri it opens up the opportunity for Fabbri and Steen to split time at centre. We done it with Steen and Berglund at points last season.

The chances of Fabbri being our answers at centre by the time the playoffs come around are remote, at best. We should still be getting a look at him in this situation.

Everytime someone asks JR about Fabbri at C he states that both Hitch and Fabbri have no interest in it right now. If Fabbri himself doesn't feel comfortable to want to play C in the NHL, why would Hitch ever try him there?

I haven't watched every minute of this season but I've yet to see Fabs play a single shift at C yet. He's taken some faceoffs lately when Steen was playing C since Steen is abysmal at them but then Fabs would revert back to the LW role after the faceoff.

That might be the case, or it might be that Hitch doesn't want him playing centre and Fabbri not wanting to rock the boat.

Don't read too much into comments from GM's, coaches or players.

Some people here think Fabbri being a center will make the team better somehow. Like center is this magical position where if you are a center, you automatically become a better player. Fabbri is the same player whether he's at wing or center. My vote is to continue playing him at the position he has excelled at.

Team balance. If we had 2 great centres and Stastny then we would all love how Fabbri is producing at LW and not consider moving him. We need a centre; Lehterä is playing terrible, Berglund isn't a good centre and Steen isn't much better.

If Fabbri could make a transition to centre, our roster would look much more balanced and our top-6 would look a lot better. Ideally we could do this via trade, but there aren't many top 6 centres available.

 

[KirkOut]

If we shifted Fabbri to center, what would be different about our top 6? Wouldn't it just be swapping Steen and Fabbri at this point?

My post comes from witnessing this conversation with many Blues fans, not just HFB:
----
Man, the blues really need a 1c

Yeah, but I think Fabbri could be that guy. He could turn into the 1c we've always needed

------

Maybe shuffling around the same players in the lineup will optimize what we have to some degree, but I don't think the added bonus of the reshuffling is gonna be enough to win many more games / a cup

 

[Celtic Note]

If we shifted Fabbri to center, what would be different about our top 6? Wouldn't it just be swapping Steen and Fabbri at this point?

My post comes from witnessing this conversation with many Blues fans, not just HFB:
----
Man, the blues really need a 1c

Yeah, but I think Fabbri could be that guy. He could turn into the 1c we've always needed

------

Maybe shuffling around the same players in the lineup will optimize what we have to some degree, but I don't think the added bonus of the reshuffling is gonna be enough to win many more games / a cup

It is much easier to find high end wingers than high end centers. Simply having said center opens more trade options and creates better positional balance. I don't think it is so much that they will magically produce more, but rather the trade/FA/Emergent prospect is a greater possibility. It is all still reliant on an acquisition, but that acquisition should be easier to find.

 

[Oberyn]

Is Max Gardiner still in the pipeline? Think he might be the answer to the elusive #1 center

 

[KirkOut]

It is much easier to find high end wingers than high end centers. Simply having said center opens more trade options and creates better positional balance. I don't think it is so much that they will magically produce more, but rather the trade/FA/Emergent prospect is a greater possibility. It is all still reliant on an acquisition, but that acquisition should be easier to find.

yeah so basically the bottom line isn't that we need a #1 center, it's that we need another top line forward added to the current squad

 

[Alklha]

yeah so basically the bottom line isn't that we need a #1 center, it's that we need another top line forward added to the current squad

No, that isn't the case at all. Another first line winger isn't going to hurt, but it isn't automatically going to solve anything either. And if it is a LW'er, a world of headaches.

I'm confused about the point you are trying to make. A collection of players doesn't make a team. Having the 19 best defensemen in the League on your team isn't going to win you a championship. Yeah, it's an extreme example, but it's about how the talent on your roster is balanced.

Fabbri - ????? - Tarasenko
Schwartz - ????? - Perron
Steen - ????? - ?????

We have 5 wingers that are capable of playing in the top 6. Add another winger, great. Just means playing someone else on the third line, or having a winger at centre.

We currently have 5 LW'ers in our top 9 (Schwartz, Steen, Fabbri, Berglund & Perron). Perron is capable on RW, so that helps. Steen and Berglund are not centres though. It hurts their game playing centre, and it does little to help the team overall.

The problem isn't the regular season, it's the playoffs. It's easier to shut down a line without a quality centre, that should be obvious for a variety of reasons.

 

[Spektre]

Berglund is officially a 4th line player. His passing isn't good. He all but refuses to shoot the puck no matter what the situation. He refuses to go towards the net with the puck. The one thing he is good at is possession. He's now the prototypical 4th liner minus the checking.

 

[Renard]

I agree with this entirely. Bernie was on during the intermission report last night talking about how great Fabs is playing(and he is absolutely right about that) and how he's going to be a great center in this league. They then showed highlights of him winning a faceoff or two. If the only thing a center had to do differently than a winger was take faceoffs, Vladi could be our 1C. I'm sure he could learn how to take a faceoff well. Or Fabbri, or Schwartz. That's not really the main responsibility of a center though, and even professional analysts seem to imply that if one can take faceoffs they can play center. It's so frustrating.

The center doesn't have to take faceoffs. Anyone on the team, other than the goalie, can do it.

It seems to me that when Steen plays center for the Blues, someone else takes the faceoffs for him.

I assume that this is not ideal, as the players on the ice will have to switch positions to some extent after the faceoff, but I'm guessing there have been a couple of good centers in the NHL who didn't take faceoffs.

 

[Renard]

I just finished reading the game day thread for the New Jersey game.

A couple of guys were expressing surprise that Allen was starting, playing three games in four nights.

I got a chuckle out of that. Earlier in the day, we went to the St. Louis Public Library, Main Branch, and looked at the Blues exhibit there. They had a full-sized effigy of Glenn Hall, in uniform, and in goal, on display. Next to it, there was information about Hall's career, including the fact that he played in something like 550 straight games.

 

[JoshFromMO]

I just finished reading the game day thread for the New Jersey game.

A couple of guys were expressing surprise that Allen was starting, playing three games in four nights.

I got a chuckle out of that. Earlier in the day, we went to the St. Louis Public Library, Main Branch, and looked at the Blues exhibit there. They had a full-sized effigy of Glenn Hall, in uniform, and in goal, on display. Next to it, there was information about Hall's career, including the fact that he played in something like 550 straight games.

That's amazing lol. Didn't fuhr play like a 79 game season in 1996 or something?

 

[fishsandwichpatrol]

I feel bad that I've literally never heard of Hunt

 

[izzy]

Berglund is officially a 4th line player. His passing isn't good. He all but refuses to shoot the puck no matter what the situation. He refuses to go towards the net with the puck. The one thing he is good at is possession. He's now the prototypical 4th liner minus the checking.

Nah Berglund is an above average 3rd line option. He's struggling to put up points this year but he's looked fine outside of a few games where the entire team was bad.