2016-17 Blues Discussion Thread Part I

[Blueston]

Thompson has the size and scoring ability to make a dent here right now. Sobotka will be a decent center, people rag on him a bit much.

Thompson is great talent but he is playing wing at UConn. Kyrou is projected by many as winger too. Both excellent prospects, though. Hopefully at least one can slot in as center on top 2 lines in next few years.

 

[Brian39]

Thompson has the size and scoring ability to make a dent here right now. Sobotka will be a decent center, people rag on him a bit much.

He really doesn't. He has the height but he still needs to fill out his frame a ton. He needs another 15-20 pounds of muscle on what is currently a pretty lanky frame. He also needs to improve his scoring to be a top 6 NHL player. He was tied for 76th in scoring and tied for 67th in goals in the NCAA last year. Last year he was handily outscored by his teammate Maxim Letunov (our old prospect who has now been traded twice before signing a pro contract). This year, he is scoring at a slightly improved pace, but is still only tied for 31st in points and in a 9 way tie for 13th in goals.

It is a huge jump from the NCAA to the NHL (much less being an above average NHL player). The only NCAA prospects that can make a successful jump into the top 6 of an NHL team immediately are at the absolute top of the NCAA. Thompson's freshman year production was significantly lower than Schwartz's and his sophomore year production is on track to fall short of Schwartz's by about .3 points per game. Schwartz then took a full NHL season to start producing at the level of a top 6 NHL forward.

There is just nothing in his game that suggests he would be productive at the NHL level right now or any time in the immediate future. Which is fine. It is exceedingly rare for the 25th overall pick to be NHL ready. He is progressing nicely and has a ton of upside. But like 99% of prospects outside the top 10-15, he will need multiple years before he is ready to produce in the top 6 of a good NHL team.

As for Sobotka, I have nothing against him. I like Sobotka and was hoping we would get him back this year. But he is not a #2 center on most competitive NHL teams. He is a very good 3rd line center, but you have a weakness at center if he is your #2. Our problem is that you can say the same thing about Lehtera and Bergie. My point is that having multiple 3rd line centers doesn't help your 2nd line and Thompson will be much better suited as a 3rd line center until 2019.

 

[HolyJumpin]

He really doesn't. He has the height but he still needs to fill out his frame a ton. He needs another 15-20 pounds of muscle on what is currently a pretty lanky frame. He also needs to improve his scoring to be a top 6 NHL player. He was tied for 76th in scoring and tied for 67th in goals in the NCAA last year. Last year he was handily outscored by his teammate Maxim Letunov (our old prospect who has now been traded twice before signing a pro contract). This year, he is scoring at a slightly improved pace, but is still only tied for 31st in points and in a 9 way tie for 13th in goals.

It is a huge jump from the NCAA to the NHL (much less being an above average NHL player). The only NCAA prospects that can make a successful jump into the top 6 of an NHL team immediately are at the absolute top of the NCAA. Thompson's freshman year production was significantly lower than Schwartz's and his sophomore year production is on track to fall short of Schwartz's by about .3 points per game. Schwartz then took a full NHL season to start producing at the level of a top 6 NHL forward.

There is just nothing in his game that suggests he would be productive at the NHL level right now or any time in the immediate future. Which is fine. It is exceedingly rare for the 25th overall pick to be NHL ready. He is progressing nicely and has a ton of upside. But like 99% of prospects outside the top 10-15, he will need multiple years before he is ready to produce in the top 6 of a good NHL team.

As for Sobotka, I have nothing against him. I like Sobotka and was hoping we would get him back this year. But he is not a #2 center on most competitive NHL teams. He is a very good 3rd line center, but you have a weakness at center if he is your #2. Our problem is that you can say the same thing about Lehtera and Bergie. My point is that having multiple 3rd line centers doesn't help your 2nd line and Thompson will be much better suited as a 3rd line center until 2019.

I mean what was Parayko playing when we picked him up? I am a little hopeful to see Thompson come into the fold quickly but I think he'll get ready pretty quick.

 

[Renard]

He really doesn't. He has the height but he still needs to fill out his frame a ton. He needs another 15-20 pounds of muscle on what is currently a pretty lanky frame. He also needs to improve his scoring to be a top 6 NHL player. He was tied for 76th in scoring and tied for 67th in goals in the NCAA last year. Last year he was handily outscored by his teammate Maxim Letunov (our old prospect who has now been traded twice before signing a pro contract). This year, he is scoring at a slightly improved pace, but is still only tied for 31st in points and in a 9 way tie for 13th in goals.

It is a huge jump from the NCAA to the NHL (much less being an above average NHL player). The only NCAA prospects that can make a successful jump into the top 6 of an NHL team immediately are at the absolute top of the NCAA. Thompson's freshman year production was significantly lower than Schwartz's and his sophomore year production is on track to fall short of Schwartz's by about .3 points per game. Schwartz then took a full NHL season to start producing at the level of a top 6 NHL forward.

There is just nothing in his game that suggests he would be productive at the NHL level right now or any time in the immediate future. Which is fine. It is exceedingly rare for the 25th overall pick to be NHL ready. He is progressing nicely and has a ton of upside. But like 99% of prospects outside the top 10-15, he will need multiple years before he is ready to produce in the top 6 of a good NHL team.

As for Sobotka, I have nothing against him. I like Sobotka and was hoping we would get him back this year. But he is not a #2 center on most competitive NHL teams. He is a very good 3rd line center, but you have a weakness at center if he is your #2. Our problem is that you can say the same thing about Lehtera and Bergie. My point is that having multiple 3rd line centers doesn't help your 2nd line and Thompson will be much better suited as a 3rd line center until 2019.

Sobotka was one of my favorite players, but I agree that he wasn't a worthy number 2 center for the Blues. He held the second line center job for half a year, but only because he was better than Berglund was.

The Blues were really weak a center a few years back, with Backes playing center, Berglund, Sobotka, Ott, Roy. We are stronger with Stastny and Lehtera, even if Lehtera isn't tearing it up right now.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

I'm interested to see how Lehtera responds to being scratched.

 

[Ranksu]

I'm interested to see how Lehtera responds to being scratched.

Respond? Give couple more jokes about his butterlegs? Blues doctor need to give him secret prescription to get him legs going.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

I mean what was Parayko playing when we picked him up? I am a little hopeful to see Thompson come into the fold quickly but I think he'll get ready pretty quick.

Parayko was an extreme outlier from the norm. Expecting Thompson to do the same is most likely setting yourself up for disappointment.

 

[Thallis]

Parayko was an extreme outlier from the norm. Expecting Thompson to do the same is most likely setting yourself up for disappointment.

I was about to say...

Using Parayko's trajectory as an example of what's possible is just not a good idea.

 

[Brian39]

I mean what was Parayko playing when we picked him up? I am a little hopeful to see Thompson come into the fold quickly but I think he'll get ready pretty quick.

He was playing junior hockey and had committed to a low-mid tier NCAA D1 program when we drafted him. He then spent 3 years in the NCAA after we drafted him and then played 17 games in the AHL at the end of the year when his NCAA team missed the playoffs. He was 22 when he played his 1st NHL game. There is very, very little chance that he would have been ready for the top 4 two years earlier.

Thompson turned 19 about a month ago and is about 25 pounds lighter than Parayko (although the eye test tells me that he is generously listed at 200 pounds and is likely 30-35 pounds lighter than Parayko).

Almost every prospect drafted outside the top 15ish is 3 years away from being ready to contribute to the top 6 of a contending team. We got very lucky with Fabbri. With that said, he has also had ups and downs so far in his career. His pure offensive production last year on the wing was below the expectations of a #2C on a contender and I'd argue that it is easier to transition into the NHL as a wing than as a center. Like I said, I am really high on Thompson. But relying on him to be the answer to the #2C woes before 2019 is a huge gamble that could very well stall the team while many of our players are in their primes.

 

[TruBlu]

He was playing junior hockey and had committed to a low-mid tier NCAA D1 program when we drafted him. He then spent 3 years in the NCAA after we drafted him and then played 17 games in the AHL at the end of the year when his NCAA team missed the playoffs. He was 22 when he played his 1st NHL game. There is very, very little chance that he would have been ready for the top 4 two years earlier.

Thompson turned 19 about a month ago and is about 25 pounds lighter than Parayko (although the eye test tells me that he is generously listed at 200 pounds and is likely 30-35 pounds lighter than Parayko).

Almost every prospect drafted outside the top 15ish is 3 years away from being ready to contribute to the top 6 of a contending team. We got very lucky with Fabbri. With that said, he has also had ups and downs so far in his career. His pure offensive production last year on the wing was below the expectations of a #2C on a contender and I'd argue that it is easier to transition into the NHL as a wing than as a center. Like I said, I am really high on Thompson. But relying on him to be the answer to the #2C woes before 2019 is a huge gamble that could very well stall the team while many of our players are in their primes.

can't change anyone's mind here.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Not only is it unlikely that Thompson is NHL ready soon, another reason why he's likely not the answer as a #2C is that he's been playing wing so far in his 2 years of college hockey.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Fabbri-Stastny-Perron
Schwartz-Steen-Tarasenko
Lehtera-Berglund-Rattie/Yak

Lines at practice today (Jaskin not skating). Normally I'm happy to see Fabbri and Stastny together, but not today. Leave the damn lines alone Hitch. God I'm so tired of the tinkering. The lines were just fine as they were. No need to jumble things up again.

 

[bleedblue1223]

The top 6 was working, I would've left it alone.

 

[Dbrownss]

Not that im happy with him tinkering...but it is just practice lines.


On a side note...Bortuzzo is made of glass

 

[bleedblue1223]

I'm just glad they are getting over force feeding Lehtera prime minutes.

 

[542365]

Nick Schmaltz was sent down to Rockford today and they're bickering about their GM moving up to take Schmaltz when Fabbri was on the board It makes me happy to see other fans fawn over our players like so many of us fawn over other guys. I also love seeing the Dylan McIlrath posts on the Rangers board after Tarasenko turned into a superstar

EDIT: For the record I was hoping we'd take Schmaltz because I didn't think there was a chance Fabbri would be there. Still would've been thrilled with Schmaltz at our spot. He's still going to be a great player, but playing 4th line minutes isn't going to make him better.

 

[Oberyn]

Schmaltz is a very good prospect, he'll find his way up to the NHL eventually. Very happy we ended up with Fabbri as well.

 

[Robb_K]

can't change anyone's mind here.

There's no way in The World that Thompson is going to centre The Blues' 2nd line at age 20, after playing only the wing in college. He'll need a year or 2 more to bulk up, learn to play defence, and play the centre position at the pro level. At LEAST one year in The AHL, and, perhaps playing on The Blues' 3rd Line.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

EDIT: For the record I was hoping we'd take Schmaltz because I didn't think there was a chance Fabbri would be there. Still would've been thrilled with Schmaltz at our spot. He's still going to be a great player, but playing 4th line minutes isn't going to make him better.

I'm in the same boat. I wanted Schnaltz because I didn't think there was a snowball's chance in hell Fabbri would be there at 21. I've long felt Chicago did us a favor, and not because I think Schmaltz sucks.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

I'm in the same boat. I wanted Schnaltz because I didn't think there was a snowball's chance in hell Fabbri would be there at 21. I've long felt Chicago did us a favor, and not because I think Schmaltz sucks.

This can end nicely in the WCF vs Chicago, where Fabbri beats Schmaltz to score the series-clinching goal. I think that would settle it, right?

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Not only is it unlikely that Thompson is NHL ready soon, another reason why he's likely not the answer as a #2C is that he's been playing wing so far in his 2 years of college hockey.

Agreed, I'm pretty sure TT is going to end up as the Blues 2nd line PF RW/PP specialist behind Tarasenko.

 

[PiggySmalls]

Heck I'm just glad Fabbri is starting to take more faceoffs. Past 2 games he took 8 of the faceoffs including some on the power play. Steen taking the rest while together. Steen is awful on the dot so I think we will continue to see Fabbri get more faceoff opportunities. At least I hope so, still hopeful he becomes our answer.

 

[Zamadoo]

Tage Thompson is a very interesting prospect. He's apparently still growing taller (or this was said during the draft), and he's already as tall as Parayko. I heard Parayko gained 15-20 lbs this off-season, so it seems like they're both on the same trajectory as far as frame (with Tage being a little taller?). Tage also skates very smoothly, though still has that baby deer look about him (much like Parayko did especially last year). Rage (my auto correct keeps changing it to Rage, so I'm just gonna leave it) also has slick hands and a dynamic shot, which he showed with Team USA. Apparently they stick him on defense on the PK, and that's impressive even if it's just for his frame. I'm really excited to see how he develops in the next few years. We should have room for him at whatever position he plays by then, but hopefully he gets some time to groom as a C. I look forward to seeing him at the WJC (assuming he makes the team).

 

[Chojin]

Our only hope for a top 9 center in our system in Barbashev. Everyone else is either a winger or garbage. We'll just keep trying to patch that hole in free agency I guess.

 

[Stopsight]

3 defensemen on pace for 40 points so that is cool

updating this to 3 defensemen in top 20 for D scoring