Blue Jays GDT: (2015 v27) Next: @ Tex| Tue, Aug 25| 8pm ET/5pm PT | Buehrle vs Holland

[Stats01]

Give me Olerud and Alomar from the 93 Dynasty team on one side of the diamond. Tulo and Donaldson on the other half of the diamond. Probably the best infield in Jays history.

In Jays history? No that's more like the best in baseball history.

 

[Eyedea]

I don't think Morris gets the credit for being the pitcher he was. He pitched that 10 inning world series winning game for the Twins. He was the ace of that great Tigers team. He would pitch to give his bullpen a break. Until he came here, our team lacked that winning attitude that pushed them over the top.

If I had to rate my top Jays Pitchers he would be there.

Tough call.

But Cone, Key, Stieb, Hentgen, and Morris would be right there.

You're leaving a lot more better pitchers off though.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I forgot one guy of Jays greats. Hate to say it. Clemons was just about the greatest Jays starter one season I have ever saw. Unfortunately that team was not a great one.

Halladay was a great one too. No doubt, but for some reason he never was a favorite of mine.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

You're leaving a lot more better pitchers off though.

Yep, from a sentimental view. From the winning years. Perhaps.

I would go to war with

Morris
Cone
Stieb
Key
Hentgen

In the pen:

Henke
Ward
Timlin
Eichorn
Lavalle

 

[topched]

I don't think Morris gets the credit for being the pitcher he was. He pitched that 10 inning world series winning game for the Twins. He was the ace of that great Tigers team. He would pitch to give his bullpen a break. Until he came here, our team lacked that winning attitude that pushed them over the top.

If I had to rate my top Jays Pitchers he would be there.

Tough call.

But Cone, Key, Stieb, Hentgen, and Morris would be right there.

If we're gonna talk best pitchers to wear a jays uniform;

Clemens
Morris
Doc
Cone
Stieb

And you're leaving out Hentgen, Key, Wells and Price. Not a hall of famer in the bunch though?

 

[Eyedea]

Yep, from a sentimental view. From the winning years. Perhaps.

I would go to war with

Morris
Cone
Stieb
Key
Hentgen

In the pen:

Henke
Ward
Timlin
Eichorn
Lavalle

And why don't you like Guzman? He was the objectively better pitcher during the Jays winning years. He came onto the scene and pitched lights out ball.

 

[EpochLink]

Top 5 Jays rotation..

Halladay, Steib, Key, Clemens and Hentgen.

Seriously, Clemens was triple crown dominant for those 2 years..I can't put Morris in there cause after his great 1992 he fizzled in 1993.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

And why don't you like Guzman? He was the objectively better pitcher during the Jays winning years. He came onto the scene and pitched lights out ball.

I liked Juan. Overpowering when on his game. His games took too long. For the same reason why teams score runs for Buerle. He keeps players in the game. Juan had a tendency to be wild at times, and took a lot of time between pitches at time. As funny as this sounded it was true. But really how can you have Juan in front to any of the guys I have?

As for Clemons and Halladay. Yeah great pitchers no doubt. Just that we never saw them for good jays teams. Wells took off when he was traded, he was good here, and got better after being traded.

Jim Clancy was a decent pitcher for us too for those that recall him. He and Stieb used to anchor our staff.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

what a game

 

[Eyedea]

I liked Juan. Overpowering when on his game. His games took too long. For the same reason why teams score runs for Buerle. He keeps players in the game. Juan had a tendency to be wild at times, and took a lot of time between pitches at time. As funny as this sounded it was true. But really how can you have Juan in front to any of the guys I have?

As for Clemons and Halladay. Yeah great pitchers no doubt. Just that we never saw them for good jays teams. Wells took off when he was traded, he was good here, and got better after being traded.

Jim Clancy was a decent pitcher for us too for those that recall him. He and Stieb used to anchor our staff.

Yes because Morris wasn't really the ace of the staff in '92. He was past his prime, just playing on a team that was pretty much guaranteed to win a title. Dave Stewart was the same way, though he pitched well in the '93 ALCS.

I'm not taking his Twins heroics into account if I'm designing my best Jays team. I'm not putting Guzman in my top 5 either, but if you're basing it off the guys that pitched in the postseason for the Jays, he's probably one of the better selections.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Because Morris wasn't really the ace of the staff in '92. He was past his prime, just playing on a team that was pretty much guaranteed to win a title. Dave Stewart was the same way, though he pitched well in the '93 ALCS.

Morris won 21 games the year he joined the Jays. He was the ace no doubt. I recall Borders crediting him for bringing in the attitude to win it all after the jays were stalled being close bridesmaids but never brides.

 

[Eyedea]

Morris won 21 games the year he joined the Jays. He was the ace no doubt. I recall Borders crediting him for bringing in the attitude to win it all after the jays were stalled being close bridesmaids but never brides.

Yeah he had great run support, of course. He was also on the hook for two world series losses.

 

[dubey]

In Jays history? No that's more like the best in baseball history.

"Probably" lol

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Yeah he had great run support, of course. He was also on the hook for two world series losses.

21-6. Some pitchers get run support because they keep their players in the game. Jack was always like this. I don't think it is a coincidence why some pitchers get better defence and run support than others.

The guy won 256 games, lost 186. He was a great pitcher. He has won world series for 3 different teams. Not trying to diminish Guzman, but he never won 20 games, and he certainly only emerged that year as a pitcher. Not in the same league as Morris was.

 

[Eyedea]

21-6. Some pitchers get run support because they keep their players in the game. Jack was always like this. I don't think it is a coincidence why some pitchers get better defence and run support than others.

The guy won 256 games, lost 186. He was a great pitcher. He has won world series for 3 different teams. Not trying to diminish Guzman, but he never won 20 games, and he certainly only emerged that year as a pitcher. Not in the same league as Morris was.

Jack was always like what? Is there discernible evidence that proves "pitchers get run support because they keep their players in the game"?

Is that why Hutchison has a 12-2 record with a 5.06 ERA and Corey Kluber is 8-13 with a 3.43 ERA?

Wins are such an archaic stat that absolutely proves nothing about a pitcher's value towards a team.

Someone lock this thread now before my head explodes.