Proposal: 2015 Offseason Trade Rumours and Proposals | Part II "Andy vs Lehner" Sens Civil War

[saskriders]

Of course there is a big list of goalies who showed promise, but ended up a bust. If they never showed promise they never would have been drafted/played in the NHL. It isn't a reason to write off Lehner, all it shows is that he isn't guaranteed anything.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

I think you are being selective in what you choose.

Pavelec had a .914 save percentage as a starter on this team http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0017902011.html

Smith was highly regarded. Not sure why but people thought he was good or going to be good.

Kudobin just had a 900 save percentage on a defense first team. I believe he is going to the KHL. He is not still looking good.

Noooooooo, realllyyyyy? Look at unfinishedspezza's list. Almost EXACTLY what im asking for and look how they turned out. It's a pretty exclusive list cause Lehner's resume thus far truly is almost exclusive in recent memory. THAT'S MY POINT. My entire point was that what Lehner has done thus far has been toooo good for him to not figure things out just like other top goalies who have had similar resumes to him in recent memory. They all have become top goalies in the league. That's why I don't want him moved. Why else would he have supporters?

The 3 guys you just rebuttled for are all still in NHL and have been number 1's sometime in their career or are still playing as number 1.

Pretty good for worst case scenario on the only possible relatable goalies presented in your lists.

 

[Othello*]

You have to understand the context.

This was 1995, league dynamics were way different back then for goalies... this is pre-Devils trap era we're talking about here. His 2.41gaa was top-10 that year, and that .903 was 15th for goalies who had played 20+ games, and he went on a crazy run at the end of the season and lost only one game down the stretch and almost single-handedly played the Bruins into the playoffs that year.

There was TONS of hype on Lacher as one of the next big goalies, because his great rookie season had followed an insanely good NCAA career. He had pedigree, and he followed it up with NHL success immediately.


... and then we all found out he actually hated hockey, and he just quit.

If league dynamics was way different for goalies I see no reason to compare him to Lehner. I'll stick to my recent far more recent comparables

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

You are right Bonk people arent factoring in era and how average save percentage is higher then even the first post lockout era

 

[BonkTastic]

D....d... did you just post an unsigned goalie from the early 90's who made his first appearance in NHL at 24 and still only had .904 sv% in low scoring era? That's your idea of comparable to Lehner? Lord Almighty. That's more like O'Connor...................

Were you even alive when Lacher had his short run?

1) The pedigree was legit for it's time - you're comparing the way things are done now with the way they were done 20 years ago. He had a very good NCAA career, and he was the toast of the NHL until everyone found out he hated the game.

2) 1994-95 was still run & gun 80's hockey. The Devil were just inventing the trap, hadn't popularized it yet because they hadn't won a cup, and full on clutch & grab was a year or two away at this point.

 

[Othello*]

Khudobin and Montoya played like 20 games before they turned 26. Awful comparables

 

[BonkTastic]

If league dynamics was way different for goalies I see no reason to compare him to Lehner. I'll stick to my recent far more recent comparables

Why are we even bothering, then?

The question should just be "name some goalies in the last 6 years who have been successful, and we'll add Lehner to that list".



You guys are cherry-picking to hype your argument. I'm not playing this stupid game.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Look i want to keep lehner. I just find people are being dishonest in their arguement or dont understand that you cant just compare him to good goalies.

Add Pavelec and Emery to your first list. Ermey CHL goalie of the year. Had a good starter save percentage in one year in ottawa. Fizzled out.
Pavelec former top pick. Had one good season and then crashed

Its just way to convient to name off Price, Varlamov, Mason and Bobrosky.

Its also a joke that people got pissed at us using goalies not drafted super high when the first list had bobrosky on it. Even Mason was a 3rd round pick

 

[Othello*]

Why are we even bothering, then?

The question should just be "name some goalies in the last 6 years who have been successful, and we'll add Lehner to that list".



You guys are cherry-picking to hype your argument. I'm not playing this stupid game.

LOL. You're the one comparing Lehner to Lacher of all people. Aside from their names what do they have in common? A 24 year old free agent that posted a .904% in 1995. Awful comparison and you know it

 

[BonkTastic]

LOL. You're the one comparing Lehner to Lacher of all people

THAT WASN'T EVEN THE PURPOSE OF THIS EXCERCIZE!!!
I'm not comparing ANYONE to Lehner!!!


This was the original question asked:

I wonder if a list could be made of young goalies who fizzled out never to be seen again.

I wonder if that list would be longer.

I wonder if it would show that Lehner is statistically more likely to never be a star than otherwise.

I mean... you guys are trying to twist the argument into this whole other thing. "Moving the goalposts" x 1000. Come on, it's ridiculous and YOU know it.

 

[Othello*]

THAT WASN'T EVEN THE PURPOSE OF THIS EXCERCIZE!!!
I'm not comparing ANYONE to Lehner!!!


This was the original question asked:



I mean... you guys are trying to twist the argument into this whole other thing. "Moving the goalposts" x 1000. Come on, it's ridiculous and YOU know it.

You also replied to the question RKL asked about a young goalie who had a great resume pre and post draft and showed flashes of brilliance(Lehner)

That's a pretty vague question by Ice-Tray btw. A young goalie who fizzles out? Thousands some don't even play a game in the NHL

 

[danielpalfredsson]

I think Ottawa could get Sharp for very little if they wanted to.

Apparently Chicago wants a 2015 first. But Sharp apparently has a NTC where he has 48 hours to name 10 teams. Lots of teams who might want Sharp do not have cap space to do a trade where they don't send cap the other way. There's a possibility if possible, Chicago might want to avoid trading within the conference because they will expect to go deep within the playoffs.

I just don't see Chicago getting a 1st for Sharp. Maybe from Florida because they seem committed to winning. But that would be a high pick to give up.

To clarify, I am not suggesting Ottawa move their first for Sharp. Just that assuming he doesn't name Ottawa on his NTC list, he might be a top 6 forward that can be had for very cheap given the circumstances.

 

[saskriders]

So if the Oilers were to trade for Lehner, who would you be most interested in getting back? Assume 1st overall, Hall, Nuge, and Nurse are untouchable since they probably wouldn't trade them for anything but a stupid overpayment?

For me:

1. Klefbaum
2. Eberle
3. Marincin
4. 16th overall
5. Draisaitl
6. Yakupov


Just to clarify I don't mean straight up. I mean making a package for one.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Then ask a different question.

Let's ask ourselves honestly, do you think Lehner still has potential to be a legit starter in the league? What do we feel is his ceiling from this point forward? What are the odds he reaches that ceiling? What do you feel is his likely trajectory?

And finally, should we continue to invest in him and move a different goalie?

Those are the only questions that matter. Who the hell cares about what goalies broke out or fizzled 1, 5, 25 years ago?

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

So if the Oilers were to trade for Lehner, who would you be most interested in getting back? Assume 1st overall, Hall, Nuge, and Nurse are untouchable since they probably wouldn't trade them for anything but a stupid overpayment?

For me:

1. Klefbaum
2. Eberle
3. Marincin
4. 16th overall
5. Draisaitl
6. Yakupov

IMO

Klefbom is slightly overrated.
Marincin is overrated and would not make the sens and would be waived
16th is underrated
Draisaitl is going to be a top 6 center.
Yakupov is overrated. Lots of people are banking on him turning it around and becoming a star. I see no chance thats he will ever be a star. 40-50 point forward thats terrible defensively

 

[Sun God Nika]

So if the Oilers were to trade for Lehner, who would you be most interested in getting back? Assume 1st overall, Hall, Nuge, and Nurse are untouchable since they probably wouldn't trade them for anything but a stupid overpayment?

For me:

1. Klefbaum
2. Eberle
3. Marincin
4. 16th overall
5. Draisaitl
6. Yakupov

I would definitely try to get Draisaitl edmonton fans still think Lazar is going to be good so might as well try to sweeten the pot a bit Lehner + Lazar for Draisaitl + 2nd, something along those lines.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

i think theres no chance we get any of those players other then marincin

 

[saskriders]

I would definitely try to get Draisaitl edmonton fans still think Lazar is going to be good so might as well try to sweeten the pot a bit Lehner + Lazar for Draisaitl + 2nd, something along those lines.

I wouldn't like that trade, I think I am more comfortable with Lazar than Draisaitl.

I wonder if the Oilers would be interested in Cowen? Not necessarily for one of those players, but if you add in Lehner and maybe something else

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Yakupov COULD happen if Edmonton thinks they are selling high on him (which means they think he is a lost cause who won't bounce back) and buying low on Lehner. I don't think it is likely....but anything can happen.

I can't see any situation where Draisaitl is included in a Lehner deal. That's similar to the 9th overall for Schneider, and Schneider had roughly a .930 save percentage over about 90 games, he was as close to a proven top 5-10 goalie as the Devils were going to get.

I'm going to be a bit optimistic and say Lehner+Greening+A 3rd for Pittsburgh's 1st. The 3rd will be thrown in as a consolation prize for taking Greening's contract. Ottawa will use poor Tim Murray to drive up the price and get Edmonton to agree to take Greening.

Edmonton takes Greening because it gets the deal done, as far as I know they aren't a budget team (and if they were shouldn't now that they will sell millions of McDavid jerseys), and if they are convinced Lehner is their goalie would gladly take an overpaid 13th forward for the next two years to get it done. Greening's contract shouldn't result in them losing any of their players.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I should have known that certain Lehner fans would turn my pondering into a something ridiculous.

He has some interesting potential that is mostly unrealized as of yet, but he's done exactly nothing for people to be slobbering all over him, other than show flashes of potentially being good one day, sandwiched between consistent holes in his game, and hints of personality issues. There have been better young tenders that have turned out worse, and far more reasons for caution than for blind ferverance.

Normally I would be fine with holding on to him to see how he develops, but now I'm plagued with the irrational enjoyment of seeing him gone just to watch the tears from certain posters.

Jesus what this place can do to a person.... !

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

I think minimum Lehner should get what bobrovsky got. 2nd, 3rd and a 4th

Bobrovsky at the time ad a career .909 save percentage in 80 games

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

I think minimum Lehner should get what bobrovsky got. 2nd, 3rd and a 4th

Bobrovsky at the time ad a career .909 save percentage in 80 games

Lehner has .914 in 86 games.

Bobrovsky also played for 3rd and 6th best team in NHL at his time with Flyers. While Lehner has played on terrible defensive teams that have just made playoffs or finished bottom 10.

 

[SixthSens]

Use new thread.