Pre-Game Talk: 2015 NHL Entry Draft - Part III

[donut]

Where does everyone have Harkins ranked? I asked this last thread but it reached 1000 posts before anyone could really reply to it.

I have him at 17 on my list and personally I feel like he's going to have a McCann like year next season and prove to whoever took him that they made the right pick.

I'm praying someway, somehow we end up with Barzal who is just all over the rankings (seen him in the top 10's, mid 10's and early 20s). Then have Benning pick up another 2016 1st during the draft, have it end up being a top 10-15 pick and then drafting Barzal's buddy Dante Fabbro. Two local boys that project to be top-6 NHLers. The ultimate Cinderella Story

But in reality, I hope we end up with one of Kylington, Roy, or Svechnikov. I'm not a big enough fan of any of the other defenders, that are in our range, with our 1st. Much rather we take a forward.

 

[BlackAces]

I have him at 17 on my list and personally I feel like he's going to have a McCann like year next season and prove to whoever took him that they made the right pick.

I'm praying someway, somehow we end up with Barzal who is just all over the rankings (seen him in the top 10's, mid 10's and early 20s). Then have Benning pick up another 2016 1st during the draft, have it end up being a top 10-15 pick and then drafting Barzal's buddy Dante Fabbro. Two local boys that project to be top-6 NHLers. The ultimate Cinderella Story

But in reality, I hope we end up with one of Kylington, Roy, or Svechnikov. I'm not a big enough fan of any of the other defenders, that are in our range, with our 1st. Much rather we take a forward.

I could see us packaging Lack and our 1st and sending it to SJS for their 1st. They are currently poised to pick 9th, and will most likely end up between 13-9, right where Barzal will probably go. All depends on who Benning is high on this draft.

 

[donut]

I could see us packaging Lack and our 1st and sending it to SJS for their 1st. They are currently poised to pick 9th, and will most likely end up between 13-9, right where Barzal will probably go. All depends on who Benning is high on this draft.

I'm also praying SJS take Miller off our hands so we can keep Lack -- but that does seem like a possibility

 

[Shareefruck]

Can someone explain to me why, of all the draftees out there and all the potential spots we could have ended up picking, Barzal is always consistently the guy who's singled out?

What's the connection here? I don't keep up with this stuff.

 

[Wisp]

Can someone explain to me why, of all the draftees out there and all the potential spots we could have ended up picking, Barzal is always consistently the guy who's singled out?

What's the connection here? I don't keep up with this stuff.

he is a good player who is also from Burnaby.

will probably be too good for where the Canucks start picking.

the beat goes on

 

[biturbo19]

Thoughts on Bittner? Is he good or is he the product of playing with Bjorkstrand and Petan?

I'd say...both? Probably more toward the latter, but he's not a bad player.

Doesn't strike me as a particularly "smart" player though. Wouldn't call Bittner overly creative or dynamic either. It's abundantly clear who the offensive drivers are in Portland. Kind of "mechanical" in his play i find. Seems inconsistent in his physical play too from what i've seen...think he might be one of those "big guys" who torments a coach, have to be constantly prodding them to get him playing the way you want and get that aggressiveness out of him.

He is big though, protects the puck well, has a decent shot, skates well for a big dude. Obviously not completely offensively inept with that sort of production, even playing with the guys he does. Pretty clear what's there, and it's not hard to see why a lot of scouts like him. If you can drag the most out of that toolset, you've got a player you're not going to find many other places.

For me it's basically...you're hoping to draft your own Johan Franzen type guy, who you can play with your very own Petan/Bjorkstrands. I can dig that, and he's a sure 1st rounder for me at this point. The upside is there, the production and tools are surely there. But i do think the "floor" might be a lot lower with Bittner than his size would imply. It feels to me as though, if he doesn't make it as a complementary "top-6 power guy", it will be due to his inability to elevate his thinking game, and the lack of dynamic talent to do things on his own. Which makes him a likely bust as a big defensive winger (where i find his game in Jrs a bit suspect despite the effort and improvement), and big highly drafted guys who don't pan out still get their opportunities as "4th line grinders", but even then...Bittner doesn't strike me as the sort of high energy guy who can make things happen on his own to thrive in that role either.

I've seen a lot of people tout him as a "safe pick", but i'm not really sold on that.

Don't really see him as the right pick for the Canucks right now (don't really have any Bjorkstands or Petans), but some other team in the later 1st round i think could either have a "steal" or a "bust" on their hands there.

 

[biturbo19]

Also, question for all y'all Vancouverites who watch the Giants frequently...

What are your thoughts on that Dmitri Osipov kid?


Haven't seem much of him, but i'm kind of intrigued as a later round pick. Really big guy, looks like a pretty mean sob. Finishes checks like, real hard. Definitely a Benning+ trait.

Seems to skate pretty well for a guy that size, stout defender. Serviceable outlet pass, seems comfortable skating a bit to change angles and open up a better lane, or just pull the "early easy" Grapes approved move as appropriate. Seemed to lean on him heavy as a "shutdown guy". Didn't see him getting any real offensive opportunities...constant D-zone starts, zero PP time...obviously not a great team, not a lot of high end production there. Nobody was really racking up points.

Production is obviously pretty sad though, even for a defensive D at that level. But i'm curious to hear thoughts from others who have watched a lot more of him if there's anything else there to give. My couple brief impressions were that there might be some untapped ability there that might be worth a later pick, but who knows? I'd imagine more than a few of you are pretty familiar with him?

 

[BerSTUzzi]

For me, i know i was discussing a lot of my thoughts on Harkins with some others in the previous thread. When i've seen him, it just doesn't feel like his play really lines up with his production in an easily projectable way for me.

Personally, i've got Harkins as a bubble-1st/2nd guy. Though it's hard to say, as there are still a bunch of Euros that i'm still struggling to place due to lack of exposure. Somewhere in that range though.

Just not a guy i'd be thrilled about taking in the range we're likely to end up in. It's tough...i want to like the "hometown kid" with the pretty excellent production...but on the ice, i just don't love it.

Agreed, I've seen him twice live (when games mattered) and both times he left me feeling meh. He does a lot of things well on the ice that normally nobody would notice unless you lock in on him. I am quite shocked at his point production.

 

[Serac]

I have a feeling that if Kylington falls to us, he's not getting past us
I have no basis for said thought
Just a gut feeling

...unless of course Barzal or someone falls too, then holy hell please take Barzal


Anyone know how Senyshyn is doing ?

 

[Ryp37]

I have a feeling that if Kylington falls to us, he's not getting past us
I have no basis for said thought
Just a gut feeling

...unless of course Barzal or someone falls too, then holy hell please take Barzal


Anyone know how Senyshyn is doing ?

Really hope they dont take Kylington, at their spot I hope they take some skill like Svechnikov or Konecny. Id even be happy to keep riding the two way center first round pick train and taking someone like Joel Ek-Eriksson

If Benning manages to get a second rounder there should be a solid d man available like Dunn or Andersson

 

[Bobby Digital]

Why do people want players from BC so bad? You should always take the BPA regardless of where there from. With that thinking we missed out on Ehlers and Nylander last year for Virtanen.

 

[okSourdough]

Also, question for all y'all Vancouverites who watch the Giants frequently...

What are your thoughts on that Dmitri Osipov kid?


Haven't seem much of him, but i'm kind of intrigued as a later round pick. Really big guy, looks like a pretty mean sob. Finishes checks like, real hard. Definitely a Benning+ trait.

Seems to skate pretty well for a guy that size, stout defender. Serviceable outlet pass, seems comfortable skating a bit to change angles and open up a better lane, or just pull the "early easy" Grapes approved move as appropriate. Seemed to lean on him heavy as a "shutdown guy". Didn't see him getting any real offensive opportunities...constant D-zone starts, zero PP time...obviously not a great team, not a lot of high end production there. Nobody was really racking up points.

Production is obviously pretty sad though, even for a defensive D at that level. But i'm curious to hear thoughts from others who have watched a lot more of him if there's anything else there to give. My couple brief impressions were that there might be some untapped ability there that might be worth a later pick, but who knows? I'd imagine more than a few of you are pretty familiar with him?

I went to the Rockets /Giants game last night and actually liked Osipov. Seemed like a good reasonably tough defender with good size and skating ability. Was not impressed at all with Benson though. He was a minus 3 in the first period. I didnt see why he is so hyped. Maybe just age and last game.

 

[CloutierForVezina]

Can someone explain to me why, of all the draftees out there and all the potential spots we could have ended up picking, Barzal is always consistently the guy who's singled out?

What's the connection here? I don't keep up with this stuff.

1. He's a BC boy. People love hometown kids.

2. He's got all the skill and upside to one day replace Henrik. Given how amazing Henrik is, it's doubtful he ever reaches this level, but it's a tempting homerun answer to the question "What do we do after the Sedins are gone?"

3. He's been injured this year, so his draft stock is perceived as way lower than it would have been if he was healthy all year. The potential is there for anyone to grab him to get a real steal.

Barzal would be the Krejci to Horvat's Bergeron. It would give us 2 real nice top-6 centers in the future and provide the backbone for our entire team moving forward.

 

[pahlsson]

barzal is a blackhawks/flames fan so that should automatically disqualify him from our drafting list

 

[luongo321]

Why do people want players from BC so bad? You should always take the BPA regardless of where there from. With that thinking we missed out on Ehlers and Nylander last year for Virtanen.

I'd take Virtanen over either of them.

 

[GailWilliams]

I think trading Lack at the draft would make the most sense for the future of our franchise. He has a great personality and I don't doubt that he's a better goalie than Miller, but it doesn't really make sense for our team to be focused on winning in 2016. I think keeping Miller means we probably miss the playoffs either next year or the year after, but this is not a contender team so I don't have a problem with that. We already have a couple promising prospects but the team needs to get worse before it will get better. I think a couple years of drafting Top 10 while continuing to develop the prospects we have now could set the foundation for a very strong team in 4-5 years time. I like the fact that JB hasn't gone scorched earth because I think it can be incredibly difficult to pull yourself out of a tailspin. Keeping veterans and adding a rookie or two to the lineup every year is probably the smartest strategy and I get the impression JB feels the same way. I'd like to see Vancouver do this at the draft:

Lack
Van 2015 1st

for

Dallas 2015 1st (atleast one of Barzal, Werenski, Rantanen should be available)
Conditional 2nd 2016 (if Lack re-signs)

With the team that Dallas has right now they should be focused on winning in the short term, which makes me think they would be willing to sacrifice potential for a solid goalie like Lack. Obviously, how they deal with Lehtonen will determine whether this deal happens or not. I could see Edmonton/SJ taking a chance on him.

 

[Wisp]

Barzal would make for an excellent draft pick regardless of where he's born. They won't because of course we can't have the actually excellent BC players.

I'd take Virtanen over either of them.

Keep drinking

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Why do people want players from BC so bad? You should always take the BPA regardless of where there from. With that thinking we missed out on Ehlers and Nylander last year for Virtanen.

Agreed. I still think drafting Virtanen was huge fan service but I think he's still a great prospect. I would have rather Ehlers though as opposed to Nylander. Ehlers is going to be a great player.

 

[DS7]

Why do people want players from BC so bad? You should always take the BPA regardless of where there from. With that thinking we missed out on Ehlers and Nylander last year for Virtanen.

One of the knocks against our scouts is that they try looking for talent elsewhere and missing kids in their own backyard. They could be trying to rectify that. As least optics wise

I.e Kane, Lucic, Jamie Benn

 

[NuxFan09]

I think trading Lack at the draft would make the most sense for the future of our franchise. He has a great personality and I don't doubt that he's a better goalie than Miller, but it doesn't really make sense for our team to be focused on winning in 2016. I think keeping Miller means we probably miss the playoffs either next year or the year after, but this is not a contender team so I don't have a problem with that. We already have a couple promising prospects but the team needs to get worse before it will get better. I think a couple years of drafting Top 10 while continuing to develop the prospects we have now could set the foundation for a very strong team in 4-5 years time. I like the fact that JB hasn't gone scorched earth because I think it can be incredibly difficult to pull yourself out of a tailspin. Keeping veterans and adding a rookie or two to the lineup every year is probably the smartest strategy and I get the impression JB feels the same way. I'd like to see Vancouver do this at the draft:

Lack
Van 2015 1st

for

Dallas 2015 1st (atleast one of Barzal, Werenski, Rantanen should be available)
Conditional 2nd 2016 (if Lack re-signs)

With the team that Dallas has right now they should be focused on winning in the short term, which makes me think they would be willing to sacrifice potential for a solid goalie like Lack. Obviously, how they deal with Lehtonen will determine whether this deal happens or not. I could see Edmonton/SJ taking a chance on him.

Although well thought out, I don't agree. The Canucks have to stop casting away their good goalies and actually commit to one. Sure, it makes sense from the standpoint of building for the future but I think the future is looking alright as it is so a Lack trade isn't absolutely necessary.

I think Markstrom is the guy who has to go unless he makes some sort of a huge statement down the stretch here. This is, of course, assuming the Canucks have no way of trading Miller.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

barzal is a blackhawks/flames fan so that should automatically disqualify him from our drafting list

Yeah but my ex co-worker said playing in his hometown would be awesome.

I say we draft him only if it's appropriate.

 

[GailWilliams]

Although well thought out, I don't agree. The Canucks have to stop casting away their good goalies and actually commit to one. Sure, it makes sense from the standpoint of building for the future but I think the future is looking alright as it is so a Lack trade isn't absolutely necessary.

I think Markstrom is the guy who has to go unless he makes some sort of a huge statement down the stretch here. This is, of course, assuming the Canucks have no way of trading Miller.

I think that's the problem though, trading Miller. Teams looking to grab an average older goalie would probably take Niemi, Ward, or even Lehtonen over Miller. The Canucks appear to be very good at developing young goalies, otherwise we wouldn't be in a position where we keep trading them away. Markstrom's trade value is fairly low right now, but I haven't given up hope. I'd like to see him play at least a full year behind an established starter like Miller before calling him a bust. Sign him to a two year deal in the offseason, the cap hit will be fairly low. Lack has the most trade value of the three goalies we have, but I would say his upside is lower than Demko's even though TD is still completely unproven. Trading Lack would get us a good asset in return, whereas Miller might be untradeable and Markstrom won't fetch more than a late pick.

 

[arsmaster*]

Demko should not even factor in to any decision. You worry about demko when you have to.

-----

When do you want to contend Gail?

Because if the idea isn't to compete next year or the year after why the hell did we sign a couple 34 year olds in the offseason.

I don't really mind your trade. If rather keep lack but if you're getting one of those prospects you probably can live with that trade.

I just don't see goalies as truly valuable trade chips and would rather keep the guy I want and forego value but benning won't do that with miller. He's his guy.

---

Been perusing that Rantanen thread on the main board. And thefeebsters YT from the wjc (ps we miss you thefeebster). I like him. I know he's sexy in the top 10 but I think he could slide.

Love this time of year. Chl playoffs next weekend. NHL stretch drive. U18's soon. Exciting.

 

[GailWilliams]

Demko should not even factor in to any decision. You worry about demko when you have to.

-----

When do you want to contend Gail?

Because if the idea isn't to compete next year or the year after why the hell did we sign a couple 34 year olds in the offseason.

I don't really mind your trade. If rather keep lack but if you're getting one of those prospects you probably can live with that trade.

I just don't see goalies as truly valuable trade chips and would rather keep the guy I want and forego value but benning won't do that with miller. He's his guy.

---

Been perusing that Rantanen thread on the main board. And thefeebsters YT from the wjc (ps we miss you thefeebster). I like him. I know he's sexy in the top 10 but I think he could slide.

Love this time of year. Chl playoffs next weekend. NHL stretch drive. U18's soon. Exciting.

I think the older depth was added because if a magical playoff run powered by Sedinery were to occur, this would be the year to do it. This roster could do some damage in the playoffs, or they could bow out in the first round. A lot of their players are at the tail end of their careers so giving it one last go by adding depth through free agency is a low risk move. I think the Sedins, Burrows, Bieksa, Hamhuis, Higgins all have their best seasons behind them. They still have value, but I think after this year the focus will shift a bit. Keeping most of those players to help usher in the next generation might prevent the Canucks from ever getting a Top 3 pick, but will also prevent another Edmonton experiment from occuring.

 

[Alpha]

Drafting players simply because they're from the area is an awful philosophy.

Barzal is a nice prospect. But the likelihood of him being available by the time the Canucks are on the clock is almost nil. It would be healthy to adjust expectations to this reality.

And why are we even discussing him in a thread dedicated to Horvat? As far as I'm concerned, our depth down the middle looks fairly bright with McCann and Gaunce coming up.