2015 Draft Thread "McEichel" Part 3

[is the answer jesus]

And he's not 5'9''

Shh. Stokes knows all about him.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Deleted

 

[is the answer jesus]

Just to be clear, I am not anti-Marner. Size isn't a huge issue to me. He's right there with Crouse and Hanifin for me. Hell, I'm the biggest Ennis homer on the board. I just think comparing him to Eichel is insane.

And who the hell is comparing him to Eichel? Eichel is a much much better prospect. I think Joshjull is just trying to determine how much of a dropoff there is between the 2.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Just to be clear, I am not anti-Marner. Size isn't a huge issue to me. He's right there with Crouse and Hanifin for me. Hell, I'm the biggest Ennis homer on the board. I just think comparing him to Eichel is insane.

Seems like everyone pretty much agrees on this. It's the Skinner comparison that rumpled feathers. Let's just say he projects to end up somewhere between Kane and Skinner, value-wise.

 

[stokes84]

Seems like everyone pretty much agrees on this. It's the Skinner comparison that rumpled feathers. Let's just say he projects to end up somewhere between Kane and Skinner, value-wise.

Ehhhh, Skinner is being pretty horribly undervalued here. The kid is 22 years old and outs up some great numbers.

 

[stokes84]

You missed Galchenyuk. Skinner would be on the lower half of that list as far as I'm concerned. Galcheynuk, Toews, Duchene, Turris, Bouwmeester, Bogosian are all guys I would all rank higher for sure. Horton is similar offensively and is a power forward so I'd prefer him, Huberdeau is still young and could develop into a very good top 6 center it may not happen, but at this point I'd take him over Skinner as well. So yeah not in the top tier of that group. Not that this pertains to anything anyways, but when you don't have a leg to stand on, 3rd overall picks and Jeff Skinner tangents are what you resort to.

For instance, this post. Turris, Horton, Bogosian, Huberdeau are not in the same class.

 

[couture23]

Ehhhh, Skinner is being pretty horribly undervalued here. The kid is 22 years old and outs up some great numbers.

His health is what lowers his overall value. Skilled player no doubt, but there are factors there that would dampen his trade value.

 

[joshjull]

I don't see the comparison, Marner is a standard top pick, Eichel comes around every 10 years. It's a pretty big drop off I think.

I'm not comparing them. I asked in my initial post what the gap is between them. The responses turned into a pissing match over a bunch of different things.

It was just a simple request to get a variety of posters opinions.

 

[is the answer jesus]

For instance, this post. Turris, Horton, Bogosian, Huberdeau are not in the same class.

Turris is an excellent 2nd line center who is good for around 60 points a year. Similar output offensively, plays a more valuable position and doesn't come with the same injury risk. Bogosian is a first pairing d-man, jets fans hold him in similar regard to Myers. Huberdeau and Horton are certainly debatable. Huberdeau has been a bit disappointing but is still around .5 ppg and I happen to think in the future he'll produce more and likely end up at center. Horton I could understand not liking as much. He's had injury problems and has topped out at around 60 points, if Skinner stays healthy he'll likely be more productive than Horton. Once again, do you want to discuss Marner? Who you seem to know all about or are we going to continue on this nonsensical tangent?

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Going back to Stokes original gap illustration, Getz vs Skinner, I would say that gap is more or less spot on, though I disagree with the player comparisons. I think Eichel will be better than Getz and Marner will be better than Skinner, but the gap between the two sets of players is pretty much as close as your going to get IMO.

 

[OkimLom]

How are you supposed to support an opinion? I posted two scouting reports that have him listed 9 and 5. I told you what kind of player he is, IMO. What else do you want?

Actually, that's a very good question, and honestly, I don't think some people on these boards really support their opinions either. I see a lot of people who say Player X is ranked "somewhere" in their opinion, but then they don't really support that thought. Usually the answer, and I'm paraphrasing here, is "they're better than Player Y" as their reasoning.

Then you have people who reference "ranking services" such as ISS, or CSS, or Button/McKenzie and leave it at that, and then they get down on others (you for example Stokes) for referencing a valid reference with ISS and a media member who has the same validity as McKenzie.

What I would like to know is WHY people think certain players are ranked ahead of others besides using someone else's opinion as theirs. Such as, what makes Marner better than Strome? What does he do better, what skills does Marner have better than Strome? This was just an example, but it seems what you do Stokes, is what others do, and you just use different players to focus on.

I know this kind of blowing off steam, but it just seems to me people, outside a few posters, don't explain WHY players are ranked where they are, they just say this player is better than that player.

I'm sorry if this derails the thread, I just needed to get this off my chest.

 

[BakedBuffalo]

This whole generational thing makes no sense to me. Eichel is great, OH WAIT Auston Matthews might be better... Is that a generation fellas? I just don't get it. Clearly McDavid and Eichel are elite prospects but the generational thing is hyperbole to me. And if I'm wrong, well I'm a Sabres fan so I'll likely be damn happy.

 

[dasaybz]

Just the thought of getting McDavid, Eichel, or Marner to play alongside Girgs, Grigs, Zads, Risto, and Reinhart is freaking crazy. I can't wait to watch this team in the next couple of years.

 

[ZeroPT*]

I'm not anti Marner but let me find a bunch of nonsense and use it as gospel to belittle him. But I'm not anti Marner.

The hard-on you have to just spout crap for the hell of it is obscene

 

[stokes84]

I'm not anti Marner but let me find a bunch of nonsense and use it as gospel to belittle him. But I'm not anti Marner.

The hard-on you have to just spout crap for the hell of it is obscene

Me: "Marner isn't in the same neighborhood as Eichel"

You: "ZOMG you do everything you can to belittle Marner."

Get a grip.

 

[joshjull]

Folks

Let's get away from the personal attacks and back on topic.

 

[BakedBuffalo]

I'm just praying we get 1 or 2 so I don't have to worry about a catastrophic failure at #3 (like picking Crouse) I'm hoping TM isn't that stupid, but I'd still worry.

 

[Paxon]

Glad there are three pages of this argument when everyone knows without question we'd take Eichel if we pick #2.

Who would we pick #3? Not Crouse I hope. Hanifin, Marner, Strome... easy to be happy with.

BTW I'd probably take Button over ISS. ISS is probably my least-favorite scouting service.

 

[NotABadPeriod]

We should talk more about mid-to-late 1st rounders that we might snag with the NYI/STL picks (or trade up for).

 

[Bps21*]

This whole generational thing makes no sense to me. Eichel is great, OH WAIT Auston Matthews might be better... .

Well don't buy into this ridiculous talking point that isn't true. Next year the same people will be telling you that Matthews, who they pumped up this year, is actually not as good as the next person. Watch the players. If you can't see that McDavid and Eichel are just flat out better than the usual top picks in their draft year...then talk about that. Not "I heard from a guy that knows a guy that this guy I've never seen is even better"

 

[Paxon]

The thing about "generational" is that, though it's nebulous and overlapping, a generation is roughly a 20 year span. Crosby, Malkin and Ovechkin were drafted about 10 years ago. Probably best to just say we have two top-end elite prospects in this draft, the best 1-2 punch in 10 years. The more one thinks about it the more it seems silly to use the term when Crosby still has another 10 years of playing left.

 

[joshjull]

Glad there are three pages of this argument when everyone knows without question we'd take Eichel if we pick #2.

Who would we pick #3? Not Crouse I hope. Hanifin, Marner, Strome... easy to be happy with.

BTW I'd probably take Button over ISS. ISS is probably my least-favorite scouting service.

Did anyone argue otherwise?

 

[Bps21*]

Let's just use the term franchise instead of generational. That's what everyone's meaning is. Like how teams have good #1Cs and some lucky teams have Franchise Cs. And that is different.

 

[sabrebuild]

Not for nothing but that Matthews kid looked like the real deal. First full games watching him. Impressive game all around.

 

[ZeroPT*]

Me: "Marner isn't in the same neighborhood as Eichel"

You: "ZOMG you do everything you can to belittle Marner."

Get a grip.

You have belittled Marner. You brought up some nonsense lists which is basically opinions for what reason? To show the "gap" between Marner and Eichel? everyone knows there is a massive difference. But you've essentially been bashing Marner and continue to kiss Eichel's behind.

We get it. Eichel is insanely good. Let's not trash other players and compare them to players that are totally different just to suit that narrative can we? Or is it too hard for you to say something without baiting into a huge argument?

"Get a grip" indeed.