Prospect Info: 2015 21st overall - Colin White (C/RW) USNTDP, going to Boston College

[aragorn]

Just sign him to an ELC this year and be done with it. Why the charades?

Do you expect him to play for Ottawa & make a significant contribution to winning? I don't. If White wants to burn a yr off the ECL contract than I would expect he gets into one game for a couple of shifts & we don't see him again until development . Of course, if he is injured & can't play & can't burn a yr off his contract than I assume he would want something else, just not sure what. I don't see any benefit to him to finish the yr in Bingo unless it is to get some pro experience to properly prepare for next season. I think he signs, just not sure if he plays in a game or not depending on his health right now. I don't see him playing more than in one game & not that many shifts if he does. What do you expect from him?

 

[SensHulk]

They had a sens analyst on the radio (brad smyth?) who said that senators should avoid signing him to an ELC as that could potentially get them in cap trouble 2 years from now when Karlsson needs a contract and assuming you have signed Turris and Stone to big contracts as well.

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/ottawa-1200/smyth-no-need-for-concern-just-yet-1.700996

 

[Agent Zub]

Do you expect him to play for Ottawa & make a significant contribution to winning? I don't. If White wants to burn a yr off the ECL contract than I would expect he gets into one game for a couple of shifts & we don't see him again until development . Of course, if he is injured & can't play & can't burn a yr off his contract than I assume he would want something else, just not sure what. I don't see any benefit to him to finish the yr in Bingo unless it is to get some pro experience to properly prepare for next season. I think he signs, just not sure if he plays in a game or not depending on his health right now. I don't see him playing more than in one game & not that many shifts if he does. What do you expect from him?

He'd be an upgrade on a couple of players in our line up right now. I hope we use him for our playoff run.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

They had a sens analyst on the radio (brad smyth?) who said that senators should avoid signing him to an ELC as that could potentially get them in cap trouble 2 years from now when Karlsson needs a contract and assuming you have signed Turris and Stone to big contracts as well.

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/ottawa-1200/smyth-no-need-for-concern-just-yet-1.700996

If we burn a year that only give ls white 2 years to earn a contract as opposed to three. Tha my works in our favor

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

They had a sens analyst on the radio (brad smyth?) who said that senators should avoid signing him to an ELC as that could potentially get them in cap trouble 2 years from now when Karlsson needs a contract and assuming you have signed Turris and Stone to big contracts as well.

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/ottawa-1200/smyth-no-need-for-concern-just-yet-1.700996

This is just "spin" to explain why he won't be signed this year. Something is starting to smell bad here.

 

[branch]

Guys don't you get it. Some posters here say there's nothing to worry about. It's just worthless speculation! Colin White will sign then play 2 years in the AHL because look what happened to Lazar!

 

[playasRus]

Why would White, impeded Karlsson's 4 million raise when we're not even at the cap and it's supposed to rise and we shed guys like Burrows, Brassard, Hammond, Andy, Neil and Kelly anyways over the next two years?

 

[SensHulk]

If we burn a year that only give ls white 2 years to earn a contract as opposed to three. Tha my works in our favor

Depends...if we sign him now and bury him in the minors for the next season then you'll have an easier time negotiating. If he start performing at the nhl level and hypothetically puts up 50 points in one of those two seasons, then he's going to look into scoring a decent 2nd contract. So definitely a little more difficult when in that same year you're looking to sign Karlsson.

Personally, I'd do the ELC now. Good teams and managements find a way to get around these problems in order to ice the best team possible. Sign him to an ELC, send him to Bingo for 2 weeks, then call him up to end the season (preferably after sens have clinched, get him ready for the post-season)

 

[playasRus]

Depends...if we sign him now and bury him in the minors for the next season then you'll have an easier time negotiating. If he start performing at the nhl level and hypothetically puts up 50 points in one of those two seasons, then he's going to look into scoring a decent 2nd contract. So definitely a little more difficult when in that same year you're looking to sign Karlsson.

Personally, I'd do the ELC now. Good teams and managements find a way to get around these problems in order to ice the best team possible. Sign him to an ELC, send him to Bingo for 2 weeks, then call him up to end the season (preferably after sens have clinched, get him ready for the post-season)

When Subban who was an elite young D at the time only got 2 years at 2.9m per, I don't think we'll have trouble hard-balling White into a bridge.

 

[Icelevel]

Colin White needs to.... not be in the news right now.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Do you expect him to play for Ottawa & make a significant contribution to winning? I don't. If White wants to burn a yr off the ECL contract than I would expect he gets into one game for a couple of shifts & we don't see him again until development . Of course, if he is injured & can't play & can't burn a yr off his contract than I assume he would want something else, just not sure what. I don't see any benefit to him to finish the yr in Bingo unless it is to get some pro experience to properly prepare for next season. I think he signs, just not sure if he plays in a game or not depending on his health right now. I don't see him playing more than in one game & not that many shifts if he does. What do you expect from him?

That's basically what I think too. I just do not want it to linger.

 

[Hutz]

feel not think

his words

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Colin White needs to.... not be in the news right now.

What's this

 

[playasRus]

http://ottawacitizen.com/sports/hockey/nhl/senatorsextra/its-a-waiting-game-for-senators-and-forward-prospect-colin-white

 

[Hutz]

We just brought on salary? We signed a fourth liner to 5 mil for the next two years. Melnyk is spending

THANK you. There's plenty of reason to not play him right away that has nothing to do with being cheap.

 

[BatherSeason]

http://ottawacitizen.com/sports/hockey/nhl/senatorsextra/its-a-waiting-game-for-senators-and-forward-prospect-colin-white

We do not need Randy "former work out spotter" Lee handling contract negotiations with our top prospects. This sounds like something Alfie and Dorion should handle. I would feel more comfortable if it was just Alfie tbh

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

http://ottawacitizen.com/sports/hockey/nhl/senatorsextra/its-a-waiting-game-for-senators-and-forward-prospect-colin-white

...ick. I wish the Sens would drop the PTO (if this article is accurate). Makes the organization look so cheap. White isn't the kind of player who will put up big numbers early in his career, so we're not going to have to worry about a monster bridge contract. Sign the ELC, give him a game or two, have him practice and learn the system in Ottawa, and perhaps send him to Bingo if he's hungry for games.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

I thought the Burrows=we're now spending post was satire.

FYI, the Senators only added a few hundred thousand in salary at the deadline. Melnyk claimed he gave Dorion the go ahead to spend but it is unknown whether that is in relation to the deadline only, or long term. Yes, we were in on Duchene, but Ceci who was in the rumoured return going back the other way would have made adding Duchene both this year and next year where Ceci makes over 3M a similar salary commitment to adding Burrows.

Adding 2.5M next year isn't an indication the team is now spending either. Mac's contract is 80 percent insured, and although I think the team's support of him is genuine at this point it isn't farfetched for them to assume that the money will be there to spend as Mac isn't likely to get cleared again.

I am not saying I think White isn't signed because the Sens are worried about adding to the budget this year. Only that I don't think people viewing the Burrows extension as an indication our team is a cap team or "ready to spend" long term are wrong. I'd love for them to be proven right though.

Odds are right now, it's about money, but not in the "omg the Sens are afraid to add money to the books" way being portrayed. Thomas Chabot who was taken before White in the draft signed for about 1.3M. Granted, he signed in 2015 prior to his stock rising. With White being perceived as a top prospect in the league at this point and not your typical 21st overall pick, my guess is that his people might be angling for him to get a much higher AAV than is typical of a mid-late 1st rounder. The negotiation taking a while is probably just basic....negotiating.....who knows though maybe we want BC to take back Andrew Hammond in order to soften the blow of adding White to the books this year.

 

[Tragedy]

...ick. I wish the Sens would drop the PTO (if this article is accurate). Makes the organization look so cheap. White isn't the kind of player who will put up big numbers early in his career, so we're not going to have to worry about a monster bridge contract. Sign the ELC, give him a game or two, have him practice and learn the system in Ottawa, and perhaps send him to Bingo if he's hungry for games.

We wouldn't be the only team to do that. Werenski did it last year off the top of my head and i know others have. Jeez this fan base lol the team can't win. We do something like this and we're being cheap. If we sign him and burn a year off his ELC then we are idiots who can't properly manage assets

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I dunno. From what I gather, White's ceiling is a 2nd line, Mike Fisher kind of player. I doubt he'd hit a lot of the automatic bonus thresholds for ELC contracts (that's where the cap costs pile up). It shouldn't be a worry for the team. If it is a big worry, then the Senators are in a helluva lot more financial trouble that we realize.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Sure give him an ELC that starts on a date next fall and have him play under an ATO in Bingo for the rest of the year. That's a reasonable option.; The way Garrioch worded it was to have him go play under and ATO and then sign an ELC this summer. There is a difference.

or let him burn a year if that is the sticking point in getting him signed

 

[danielpalfredsson]

I dunno. From what I gather, White's ceiling is a 2nd line, Mike Fisher kind of player. I doubt he'd hit a lot of the automatic bonus thresholds for ELC contracts (that's where the cap costs pile up). It shouldn't be a worry for the team. If it is a big worry, then the Senators are in a helluva lot more financial trouble that we realize.

This isn't exactly true. There are enough "easy" schedule A bonuses that a player like Colin White could hit during his contract. Not to mention clubs can also set huge bonuses for schedule B bonuses like winning the Calder trophy.

Never the less, even if for the sake of argument we assume Colin White will never hit a single performance bonus during his contract, teams can't go into rookie contracts with the mindset that they can pay a rookie whatever they want in performance bonuses because that rookie won't meet them or else every player would be getting max AAVs. There's such a thing as having a salary structure and overpaying White or any other player drastically on their rookie AAV will set a bad precedent in the future for when the team has to negotiate with rookies.

For reference, Logan Brown who was picked higher than White is at 1.8M. My guess is, the Sens wouldn't want to pay a player they took 21st more than a guy they took 11th. Where as White's people likely want to maximize White's bonus potential by getting the biggest AAV and the easiest bonus criteria.

I think a misconception people have is that White should have been signed 2 minutes after he played his last college game because they think an ELC is a contract that is already dictated with no room for negotiation. Although there are certain standards based on where players are drafted, each ELC is different in bonus amount and how easy those bonuses are to hit, and having a player like White who was taken 21st but has seen his stock rise in the 2 year since probably complicates the negotiations.

(More info on bonuses: http://web.archive.org/web/20141009010146/http://capgeek.com/faq/how-do-entry-level-contracts-work)

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Can anybody clarify if his contract actually slides if he signs and DOES NOT play in the NHL?

I might be wrong but after further investigation, because he is 20, if he signs this year and plays in the AHL that counts as a contract year. That is where this ATO business is coming from. 1 game in the NHL would be irrelevant in this case. Johnny Gaudreau was a similar situation, he played 1 game in the NHL but I am pretty sure that is because he signed in April pretty much at the end of the season and was not going to go play in the AHL for a few days.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Can anybody clarify if his contract actually slides if he signs and DOES NOT play in the NHL?

I might be wrong but after further investigation, because he is 20, if he signs this year and plays in the AHL that counts as a contract year. That is where this ATO business is coming from. 1 game in the NHL would be irrelevant in this case. Johnny Gaudreau was a similar situation, he played 1 game in the NHL but I am pretty sure that is because he signed in April pretty much at the end of the season and was not going to go play in the AHL for a few days.

What they did with Tage Thompson is have him start with an ATO in the AHL , and have his ELC start in the fall.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

We wouldn't be the only team to do that. Werenski did it last year off the top of my head and i know others have. Jeez this fan base lol the team can't win. We do something like this and we're being cheap. If we sign him and burn a year off his ELC then we are idiots who can't properly manage assets

Different situation entirely.

Werenski needed to sign an ATO in order to be eligible to play for the Monsters in the AHL playoffs. His contract would have slid regardless due to his age. Entirely different situation where an ATO was a technicality at best.

If an ATO is on the table, I don't get why White doesn't just go back to school next year and then do this dance again next Spring where he can finally convince them to burn a year off the deal or just hold out to complete his degree. I have to be missing something, because the idea of an ATO seems extremely farfetched. The only reason the idea has any traction is because Bruce Garrioch went on TV and suggested it after Tage Thompson signed an ATO. Thompson similar to Werenski would have had his contract slide anyways. I could be wrong, but White @ 20 won't have his contract slide so the ATO idea gaining traction is baffling. With Thompson, it might be as simple as the Blues didn't want to use a contract spot on him pre-deadline when he was not going to play for them this year anyways but still wanted him to benefit from getting AHL games/possible playoffs in.