Proposal: 2015-2016 Season Trade Rumours & Proposals | Part XIII

[Micklebot]

TSN has Jonas Brodin available on "Trade bait list"

Jonas Brodin for 12th overall

Brodin Karlsson
Chabot Phaneuf
Methot Ceci

Ok, so we protect Karlsson, Phaneuf (NMC), Brodin and lose one or both of Ceci and Methot to the expansion draft?

I think the current rumours have it as
Protect 3 D+7 forwards and a goalie, or 8 skaters and a goalie.

So, we have to protect Ryan and Phaneuf, would obviously protect Karlsson.
If we acquire Brodin, we'd protect him, and likely Ceci. That means, we have to decide which two of Hoffman, Stone, Turris, Zibanejad, Methot would be left unprotected.

Nope, we aren't acquiring another D before the expansion draft unless we're moving Hoffman or Zibanejad to get it, and then I'd want a better player than Brodin.

Ya, I wish I was as optimistic as you and some of the other posters on here. I mean I really like this teams core, I like the Phaneuf trade, and like the new coaching hire. But I think that if we go into next season without making any improvements to this forward group we continue to be a bubble team. If guys stay healthy we could sneak into the playoffs, if we have an injury to a key guy like Turris again, I'm not sure we'll make it.

I'm not totally opposed to going into next season without making any changes but Dorion should definitely be looking for another top 6 forward IMO

Well, most teams will struggle if they get a major injury to a key player. Trying to insulate the roster against that isn't realistic at this stage imo. Even then, once it becomes realistic, the reality is that if you get that key injury, you're probably no longer a contender for the cup, so why bother trying to protect yourself for that possibility when it will still mess up the end game anyways.

Nobody disagrees that this team can and needs to improve, it's just that our top 6 is just the last piece that needs that improvement atm. It's a case of diminishing returns. We upgrade our weaknesses and we see a bigger return. Address the bottom pair D, or the 3rd line RW.

 

[BonkTastic]

Team will make 25% of its cap available players

Bill Daly has already said the league is dropping this requirement.

Teams can protect (a) seven forwards, three defensemen and one goaltender or (b) eight skaters at any position and one goaltender.

So why would I have to get rid of either so you protect Karlsson Ceci Brodin

Because we are forced to protect Phaneuf, because he has a NMC.

 

[Real Smart Sens Fan]

A NTC doesn't magically absolve you from the expansion draft process.



Are you choosing the "Protect any 8 guys" expansion protecton list, instead of the "7F-3D-1G" plan?

I definitely wouldn't, but technically it is an option. I miscalculated though - it would be 3 of: Zibanejad/Turris/Pageau/Anderson, or one of Ceci/Brodin. As it is now, I think we will not necessarily have to lose anyone significant (besides, like, MacArthur) for nothing.

Just from looking at depth charts, these teams all could have interest in Methot and wouldn't need to lose anyone too significant in the draft:

Arizona
Buffalo
Boston
Carolina
Colorado
Dallas
Edmonton
Florida
Montreal
New Jersey
Toronto

Some teams are only on here assuming they don't resign certain players (MTL, FLA) and/or their young players don't progress/see slight regressions (AZ/CAR).

 

[trentmccleary]

For the last 2 years, minus Phaneuf. Results have been similiar, bubble team both seasons

How do you think this team is going to do next year?

2015- no Phaneuf at all. Hoffman, Zibanejad and Ceci are better, in some cases notably.

2016- Phaneuf for 20 games, Turris healthy for 1/3 of the season, no MacArthur.

The top-6 forwards have never been as good or as healthy as they are going into this season... which is awesome to think about because they cracked the top-10 in scoring despite the adversity.

Phaneuf-Ceci. The acquisition of Phaneuf and development of Ceci are huge additions to the team that played two years ago.

 

[Tkachuk27]

Ok, so we protect Karlsson, Phaneuf (NMC), Brodin and lose one or both of Ceci and Methot to the expansion draft?

I think the current rumours have it as
Protect 3 D+7 forwards and a goalie, or 8 skaters and a goalie.

So, we have to protect Ryan and Phaneuf, would obviously protect Karlsson.
If we acquire Brodin, we'd protect him, and likely Ceci. That means, we have to decide which two of Hoffman, Stone, Turris, Zibanejad, Methot would be left unprotected.

Nope, we aren't acquiring another D before the expansion draft unless we're moving Hoffman or Zibanejad to get it, and then I'd want a better player than Brodin.



Well, most teams will struggle if they get a major injury to a key player. Trying to insulate the roster against that isn't realistic at this stage imo. Even then, once it becomes realistic, the reality is that if you get that key injury, you're probably no longer a contender for the cup, so why bother trying to protect yourself for that possibility when it will still mess up the end game anyways.

Nobody disagrees that this team can and needs to improve, it's just that our top 6 is just the last piece that needs that improvement atm. It's a case of diminishing returns. We upgrade our weaknesses and we see a bigger return. Address the bottom pair D, or the 3rd line RW.

Why would you protect Phaneuf his contract makes him less attractive ??

Protect
Dmen Karlsson Ceci Brodin
Forward Ryan Turris Zibanejad Hoffman Stone Pageau Smith
Goalie Anderson

 

[Real Smart Sens Fan]

Why would you protect Phaneuf his contract makes him less attractive ??

Protect
Dmen Karlsson Ceci Brodin
Forward Ryan Turris Zibanejad Hoffman Stone Pageau Smith
Goalie Anderson

Phaneuf's NMC requires us to protect him. We are in the same boat with Ryan.

 

[Micklebot]

Why would you protect Phaneuf his contract makes him less attractive ??

Protect
Dmen Karlsson Ceci Brodin
Forward Ryan Turris Zibanejad Hoffman Stone Pageau Smith
Goalie Anderson

What Jay said. NMC must be protected. Can't leave either of Phaneuf or Ryan exposed.

 

[Tkachuk27]

Bill Daly has already said the league is dropping this requirement.



Because we are forced to protect Phaneuf, because he has a NMC.

Got that from Hockey News

"First-and second-year players on entry-level contracts would be exempt from the expansion draft. It remains to be seen if no-movement clauses would give veterans automatic amnesty"

 

[Lehner]

Why would you protect Phaneuf his contract makes him less attractive ??

Protect
Dmen Karlsson Ceci Brodin
Forward Ryan Turris Zibanejad Hoffman Stone Pageau Smith
Goalie Anderson

Nobody knows the rules yet on expansion, just the basis of the rules.

We dont know whether if its any player with a NMC or if its only players with a "FULL NMC". Thats still to be determined.

 

[HoffStoneKarl*]

2015- no Phaneuf at all. Hoffman, Zibanejad and Ceci are better, in some cases notably.

2016- Phaneuf for 20 games, Turris healthy for 1/3 of the season, no MacArthur.

The top-6 forwards have never been as good or as healthy as they are going into this season... which is awesome to think about because they cracked the top-10 in scoring despite the adversity.

Phaneuf-Ceci. The acquisition of Phaneuf and development of Ceci are huge additions to the team that played two years ago.

I really hope you're right. I hope this team takes a step forward this year as it's been tough watching them get out shot every game for the last 3 years.

 

[Hutz]

A NTC doesn't magically absolve you from the expansion draft process.

Are you choosing the "Protect any 8 guys" expansion protecton list, instead of the "7F-3D-1G" plan?

Bonk, just want to say, I appreciate your tireless efforts to explain the expansion draft process in this thread. Sooner or later everyone will get it.

I hope.

Ya I agree. I think if all goes well, in a good year, we can make it to the second round.

I'd consider that a success for next year. I think you and I agree on the moves that need to be made, I just don't see them as being possible this off-season. If we do make it to the second round next year, that means we're getting close. At that point we should be looking for deals to put us over the top.

Being realistic, I don't see us winning the cup next year no matter what we do. If the coaching works out and our players all make the proper steps forward, we may be in a position to make a deal for a star forward (if there's one available) who could put us over the top. I see next year as a bit of a test year. If we can't make the playoffs with the group we have already, then one guy is not likely to be the difference that gets us the cup.

We're also likely have potential goaltending issues in the not too distant future, for the record, I'm probably even more worried about those than the #1C issue... it's just not as pressing.

 

[trentmccleary]

Well, most teams will struggle if they get a major injury to a key player. Trying to insulate the roster against that isn't realistic at this stage imo. Even then, once it becomes realistic, the reality is that if you get that key injury, you're probably no longer a contender for the cup, so why bother trying to protect yourself for that possibility when it will still mess up the end game anyways.

Nobody disagrees that this team can and needs to improve, it's just that our top 6 is just the last piece that needs that improvement atm. It's a case of diminishing returns. We upgrade our weaknesses and we see a bigger return. Address the bottom pair D, or the 3rd line RW.

To add to this, if we are going to improve our top-11 substantially... blow significant cap space and maybe a good young player/prospect/pick... the key spot we might be able to improve upon enough to make a difference could be goaltending. And we should be looking at that move next summer anyways. If people on this board really want to make a big splash, then that's what you save up your wad for.

You don't trade multiple young players, pick or prospects for marginal upgrades on 23 & 26yo centers.

 

[Tkachuk27]

Nobody knows the rules yet on expansion, just the basis of the rules.

We dont know whether if its any player with a NMC or if its only players with a "FULL NMC". Thats still to be determined.

Thats why Im going with everyone being available except the 7F 3D 1G

 

[Hutz]

Nobody knows the rules yet on expansion, just the basis of the rules.

We dont know whether if its any player with a NMC or if its only players with a "FULL NMC". Thats still to be determined.

Ok, I'm not an expert, but as I understand it, there's no such thing as a partial NMC. An NMC is all or nothing. An NMC means the player can not be placed on waivers and therefore can't be sent to the AHL or loaned to another team. Anyone who has such a clause must be protected.

An NTC, on the other hand, can be modified to give the player a certain say over where he can be traded. Since the expansion draft isn't technically a trade these players can be left unprotected.

Yes, the rules won't be publicly announced until expansion is, but all info that's leaked suggests this is the way it will be.

 

[topshelf15]

Watching White ,i think we can say he will be a good top 9 center soon .Maybe more ,this is how Ottawa will find their number 1 guy through drafting .We historically are pretty good at making great picks in the middle of the draft ,this draft looks to ahve some nice players in our range .So iam on the lets roll with what we have and see what it becomes ,no more talk from me about trading Zibby

 

[Micklebot]

Thats why Im going with everyone being available except the 7F 3D 1G

The wording of the NMC makes it such that there is no way around it. If the player doesn't want to move, he can't be moved. They will either be exempt, or teams will be forced to protect them.

The first option is highly unlikely, as the league giving some teams (that gave out these clause in order to reduce the players salary and get a competitive advantage in the first place) an advantage over others would be asinine.

 

[Tkachuk27]

Ok, I'm not an expert, but as I understand it, there's no such thing as a partial NMC. An NMC is all or nothing. An NMC means the player can not be placed on waivers and therefore can't be sent to the AHL or loaned to another team. Anyone who has such a clause must be protected.

An NTC, on the other hand, can be modified to give the player a certain say over where he can be traded. Since the expansion draft isn't technically a trade these players can be left unprotected.

Yes, the rules won't be publicly announced until expansion is, but all info that's leaked suggests this is the way it will be.

Leaked info

"Hockey News"

"Expansion Draft won’t include any players who will be unrestricted free agents in summer 2016 or summer 2017. I’ll list more than 23 names, just to deeper explore candidates to get claimed. It’s difficult to imagine players with no-movement clauses will be ruled exempt, because, if they didn’t have to count toward a team’s protected list, too few quality players would be available to the expansion squad. A team loaded with clauses, like the Tampa Bay Lightning, would have most of its roster exempt and still have room to protect most of its other players. Also, as my colleague Ian Denomme pointed out, players with NTCs and NMCs tend to be expensive, so exempting them would make it harder for teams to clear 25 percent of their salary."

 

[Tkachuk27]

The wording of the NMC makes it such that there is no way around it. If the player doesn't want to move, he can't be moved. They will either be exempt, or teams will be forced to protect them.

The first option is highly unlikely, as the league giving some teams (that gave out these clause in order to reduce the players salary and get a competitive advantage in the first place) an advantage over others would be asinine.

"Hockey News"

"Expansion Draft won’t include any players who will be unrestricted free agents in summer 2016 or summer 2017. I’ll list more than 23 names, just to deeper explore candidates to get claimed. It’s difficult to imagine players with no-movement clauses will be ruled exempt, because, if they didn’t have to count toward a team’s protected list, too few quality players would be available to the expansion squad. A team loaded with clauses, like the Tampa Bay Lightning, would have most of its roster exempt and still have room to protect most of its other players. Also, as my colleague Ian Denomme pointed out, players with NTCs and NMCs tend to be expensive, so exempting them would make it harder for teams to clear 25 percent of their salary."

 

[HoffStoneKarl*]

Watching White ,i think we can say he will be a good top 9 center soon .Maybe more ,this is how Ottawa will find their number 1 guy through drafting .We historically are pretty good at making great picks in the middle of the draft ,this draft looks to ahve some nice players in our range .So iam on the lets roll with what we have and see what it becomes ,no more talk from me about trading Zibby

We're going to have to hit a home run like we did with Karlsson though. Just so hard to get a 1C when you're constantly drafting in the 12-18 range

 

[Micklebot]

"Hockey News"

"Expansion Draft won’t include any players who will be unrestricted free agents in summer 2016 or summer 2017. I’ll list more than 23 names, just to deeper explore candidates to get claimed. It’s difficult to imagine players with no-movement clauses will be ruled exempt, because, if they didn’t have to count toward a team’s protected list, too few quality players would be available to the expansion squad. A team loaded with clauses, like the Tampa Bay Lightning, would have most of its roster exempt and still have room to protect most of its other players. Also, as my colleague Ian Denomme pointed out, players with NTCs and NMCs tend to be expensive, so exempting them would make it harder for teams to clear 25 percent of their salary."

I'm not sure what you're getting at here, that's essentially saying the same thing as me. Guys with NMC must be protected by the team. So Phaneuf and Ryan will count against our 3D+7F list.

 

[BonkTastic]

Leaked info

"Hockey News"

"Expansion Draft won’t include any players who will be unrestricted free agents in summer 2016 or summer 2017. I’ll list more than 23 names, just to deeper explore candidates to get claimed. It’s difficult to imagine players with no-movement clauses will be ruled exempt, because, if they didn’t have to count toward a team’s protected list, too few quality players would be available to the expansion squad. A team loaded with clauses, like the Tampa Bay Lightning, would have most of its roster exempt and still have room to protect most of its other players. Also, as my colleague Ian Denomme pointed out, players with NTCs and NMCs tend to be expensive, so exempting them would make it harder for teams to clear 25 percent of their salary."

No one will be "exempt" from the expansion draft.

Teams will be forced to protect NMCs though. They aren't "exempt", but teams will be forced to protect them. NMC forwards will count as one of a team's 7 protected forwards. NMC defencemen will count as one of a team's 3 protected defencemen. NMC goalies will automatically be protected as a team's protected goalie.

Nothing is set in stone, but this is the overwhelming, clear most likely scenario.

If you want to plan for an expansion draft in which we are allowed to expose NMCs, that is absolutely your right, but 95% of the rest of the hockey world fully expects that we will be forced to protect NMCs, so understand that any proposal that features us leaving Phaneuf unexposed will not be taken seriously by most other fans.

 

[BonkTastic]

Bonk, just want to say, I appreciate your tireless efforts to explain the expansion draft process in this thread. Sooner or later everyone will get it.

I hope.

Thanks.

 

[topshelf15]

We're going to have to hit a home run like we did with Karlsson though. Just so hard to get a 1C when you're constantly drafting in the 12-18 range

Yep, for now we will just have to try and use great depth on three lines to compensate .Trying to trade for one i just dont see being in the cards TBH

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

We're going to have to hit a home run like we did with Karlsson though. Just so hard to get a 1C when you're constantly drafting in the 12-18 range

We already did hit a home run and his name is Mark Stone. Pair him with the right center and this guy can be the dominant force on a 200ft ice surface against anyone. Stone basically plays the role of a C when he's out there the way he gets the puck back for his linemates and distributes the rock. A true elite #1 would be nice, but we don't need one to be contenders as long as Stone and Karlsson are here.

 

[topshelf15]

We already did hit a home run and his name is Mark Stone. Pair him with the right center and this guy can be the dominant force on a 200ft ice surface against anyone. Stone basically plays the role of a C when he's out there the way he gets the puck back for his linemates and distributes the rock. A true elite #1 would be nice, but we don't need one to be contenders as long as Stone and Karlsson are here.

If he is a home run ,EK would be a grand slam