2015-2016 Roster Talk: Kings Have no Elite Players Edition

[YP44]

He was looking to trade up at last years draft, but wasn't able to get the player he was targeting.

It's a long shot. Things have to line up. Player Lombardi is targeting in a range where a team is willing to move a pick, but I wouldn't put it past Lombardi. A cheap ELC center that could play 3C and as they develop and be a piece for the future would work really nicely for the cap. Does that player exist in this draft and can Lombardi snag him.



Plugging in the numbers for the cap, it's very difficult to address the 3C and have any depth on defense with Brown on the team. If the team is going to be competitive Brown has to be moved or remember how to play like a top 6 forward.

I agree but I think it will be very hard to find a trade partner and I cringe at what the sweetener would have to be, or what LA would have to take back (Bolland type deal).
I think it is more plausible that gaborik gets moved for cap space than Brown, just because I think there will be more of a market...still a very very small market though

 

[Ollie Weeks]

Buyout is more likely than a trade, I think, with what we'd end up retaining in a trade and giving up additionally.

I'm taking this "5 year window" thing with a grain of salt, but years 5 and 6 of the buyout do happen to have the highest hit. So there's some merit to it.

 

[YP44]

Buyout is more likely than a trade, I think, with what we'd end up retaining in a trade and giving up additionally.

I'm taking this "5 year window" thing with a grain of salt, but years 5 and 6 of the buyout do happen to have the highest hit. So there's some merit to it.

I think retention + sweetener is somewhat preferred over buy out just due to length of buy out. that said it obviously depends on how much retention and what sort of sweetener.

Give the fact Brown's last days as a king could be in the next 1-3 years I wonder how he will be remembered. As a contract burden or as the first king to ever raise the cup.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

See, for me, retaining salary on Brown doesn't make any sense. We'd still have to pay his replacement, so we'd be giving up a nice asset AND dustin brown for...another player at essentially exactly the same price, maybe a couple hundred thousand less. Because I can't fathom a deal that makes sense otherwise.

 

[Ollie Weeks]

I don't see why the length of the buyout matters in this case.

 

[Ollie Weeks]

See, for me, retaining salary on Brown doesn't make any sense. We'd still have to pay his replacement, so we'd be giving up a nice asset AND dustin brown for...another player at essentially exactly the same price, maybe a couple hundred thousand less. Because I can't fathom a deal that makes sense otherwise.

My hangup as well.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

I don't see how the Kings can buyout Brown. From 2018-2022 they'd be paying Brown and Richards ~$4 million. That's way too much to have in dead cap space, especially since Doughty and Muzzin will need new contracts in the middle of those years.

 

[Ollie Weeks]

And instead, with a trade involving retention we would probably end up paying Brown and Richards about the same effective immediately. Which is even worse, because of the stagnant salary cap.

 

[YP44]

See, for me, retaining salary on Brown doesn't make any sense. We'd still have to pay his replacement, so we'd be giving up a nice asset AND dustin brown for...another player at essentially exactly the same price, maybe a couple hundred thousand less. Because I can't fathom a deal that makes sense otherwise.

depends where you have Brown penciled in. Bottom 6 wingers can be had or developed for much less than what Brown is being paid.

Let's say you're paying $2.5M for a bottom 6 winger, and only have to retain $1M on brown. bringing the total payout for that roster spot at $3.5m that would free up almost $2.5M to be used elsewhere.

 

[YP44]

And instead, with a trade involving retention we would probably end up paying Brown and Richards about the same effective immediately. Which is even worse, because of the stagnant salary cap.

i think what makes retention worse than buy out is that if retention has a great amount of dead cap space it ties up $$ while our cup window is still open.

At the end of the day, to me, it all depends on how much retention is needed what kind of sweetener. There is a point where buy out makes sense..i do not know where that point is.

 

[Trolfoli]

From GeneralFanager's buyout tool, buyout date this Summer
http://www.generalfanager.com/buyouts/959?day=15&year=2016

0.680/1.18/2.18/2.18/3.68/3.68/1.8/1.8/1.8/1.8/1.8/1.8 M Would be the buyout.

For me retaining up to 1.8M makes sense.. It's a little higher the first two years, but would be better after that. That would put Brown around 4M cap hit to a new team.

 

[tsanuri]

From GeneralFanager's buyout tool, buyout date this Summer
http://www.generalfanager.com/buyouts/959?day=15&year=2016

0.680/1.18/2.18/2.18/3.68/3.68/1.8/1.8/1.8/1.8/1.8/1.8 M Would be the buyout.

For me retaining up to 1.8M makes sense.. It's a little higher the first two years, but would be better after that. That would put Brown around 4M cap hit to a new team.

You're suggesting just over 30% retained.
So is that enough?
And part of the problem would be how many teams would want to pay him an actual salary of 5.2M next year even with a cap hit of 4M?

 

[Trolfoli]

You're suggesting just over 30% retained.
So is that enough?
And part of the problem would be how many teams would want to pay him an actual salary of 5.2M next year even with a cap hit of 4M?

Brown at 4M wouldn't be bad. Also depends on the team. A rebuilding team with lots of high end talent that doesn't need help scoring, that needs a leader? 4M isn't going to look like a bad price once UFA season starts and guys like Ladd/Lucic are looking closer to 6.

-The way the D is looking next year there could be some options. What if Scheen and Greene come back?
7/8 (Doughty can carry anyone)
(6,27)/52
3/2
Would this work? Could move 6 or 27 with Brown....

-UFA/RFA (looking for payday)
7/8
(6,27)/UFA (around 6M)
3/(52,53) (Schenn if cap space, or Gravel otherwise)

Basically selling a cost controlled Martinez/Muzzin to move Brown... instead of retaining 2M on Brown the Kings pick up 2M+ on a Martinez/Muzzin 4M contract for around a 6M.

-Return: would be looking for a cheap 3C (ELC) that can grow with the team. Maybe Muzzin+Brown is enough to get into the 4-8 overall first round. This would take a team that has enough prospects, wants to improve now, has a pick past the 3rd overall, and a player Lombardi liked at the top of the draft. 2 teams that come to mind are EDM/Buff. Buff also has Girgs that may be able to be pried out of there. Don't see either team moving anything else. Maybe a Martinez + Brown could grab a Yak +Reinhart. (Both struggling)

-Wpg/Col have Trouba/Barrie, Right handed RFA's, WPG could use a LHD. If they're looking at paying Trouba 6M they could get Martinez for 4 and then fill another spot on their roster with Brown (2M or so over paid, Kruger just got 3). Similar to what the Kings did with Schenn and VL... get Schenn for cheap for taking VL.

-UFA... if one of 6,27 traded and Probably both 2/52 walk there's enough for say Yandle at 6M. So trade Martinez with Brown somewhere... sign Yandle...

Lots of possibilities out there. Just have to find that Sucker that'll take Brown with someone like Martinez. It would work for the Oilers... really help their D, plus McDavid could get Brown scoring again... maybe...

Edit: I also think Brown getting a change of scenery, not worrying about being the captain, a different system and he'll go back to being the old Brown everyone loved. I could be wrong, but we have seen players look terrible on the Kings go to other teams and do well.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Brown at 4 per is still too much. He's a 2.5 million player right now.

 

[YP44]

one other thing is Brown's NTC.

So other team needs to be willing, LA needs to be willign to retain, and brown needs to be willing.

Don't see why brown would waive to be honest. he could wait to see if LA decides to buyout and then sign somewhere and make two cheques.

 

[gnarls barkley]

I believe Brown is going to retire in LA.

there's literally no realistic scenario I can imagine in which the Kings don't get bent over a barrel, I honestly don't believe it's possible to get rid of him without seriously ****ing up this 5 year window. They're already paying Richards until the end of time from his buyout, I don't think there's any chance they add to that and essentially hamstring this team for the next decade (or whatever it is), and trading him would not only require him to waive NTC, but would guarantee losing additional picks/prospects/actual good roster players, none of which we can really afford right now either if the plan is to stay competitive. And that's not even considering the cost of bringing in replacements for Brown and whatever we'd lose, even if those are ELCs or bargain deals they'll still likely be in the red overall.

Bottom line is that Brown at 5.8 is a terrible terrible deal for his current level of play, but all things considered I think it may actually be way worse to force his departure prematurely. Damned if you do and damned if you don't, and like I said in another thread regarding Kruger's new deal with the Hawks - it's just like Brown, he got overpaid for his loyalty to the organization (though with less term) and unfortunately this is the type of **** that can happen for that in a world with a fluctuating salary cap, and GMs have to know the risks in such deals.

 

[KingsCourt]

Man.. That brown contract is such an eye soar... Imagine if traded... His money would go to Lucic and we could a top 4 D.... We could only dream

 

[HookKing]

one other thing is Brown's NTC.

So other team needs to be willing, LA needs to be willign to retain, and brown needs to be willing.

Don't see why brown would waive to be honest. he could wait to see if LA decides to buyout and then sign somewhere and make two cheques.

One remote possibility is DL swaps Brown for someone else with a bad contract, someone the Kings could rejuvenate in the system.

 

[HYORI 1963]

I have one kid, and I can't have enough money. I bet Scuds is gonna play as long as he can

But that's silly. You haven't made 30M in your career like Scuds, have you? If you had 30M, I'm guessing you'd invest some of that money, and take more time off to be with your kid.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Brown has 6 seasons after this on his deal. The deal already looks awful 2 seasons in.

The Mayor speculated a buyout in one of his articles. I think Lombardi will revisit this idea.

Lombardi will put more value on Lucic, the defense and freeing up cap space and room for younger players on the bottom 2 lines rather than keeping Brown at 5.8 million for 6 more years.

 

[Trolfoli]

Brown at 4 per is still too much. He's a 2.5 million player right now.

Come on... he's worth more the Kruger!

Seriously... look at the offense last couple of games... and look at the lineup.... Brown's been on the same line as Lewis... when they are scattered on different lines they slow the offense greatly. Brown pretty much has to be moved to make this team competitive...

Brown's NTC: Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's 7 teams he can name that he won't accept a trade to. Not that big of a hurdle.

Also we've seen Clarkson/Phaneuf/Horton/Pronger move this year... also VL moved and we love him.... Who knows what can happen.

 

[Basilisk]

There's a light at the end of the Dustin Brown Crappy Contract Tunnel. And that light is called ........ "NHL Expansion Draft"......

 

[Basilisk]

I'm not understanding the McNabb/Schenn pairing.


Which guy is supposed to be the puck-mover? The guy who responsibly moves the puck out of our D zone? I'm not seeing it......

 

[HeadInjury]

Posters that talk about re-signing Schenn don't see the player I'm seeing.

Greene can't come back soon enough.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I'm not understanding the McNabb/Schenn pairing.

Which guy is supposed to be the puck-mover? The guy who responsibly moves the puck out of our D zone? I'm not seeing it......

Maybe it's a Sutter experiment. Put them both out there, and it forces at least one of them to move the puck, or they get trapped. Both are a little out of their comfort zone, and you hope at least one of them can find a way.