GDT: 2015-16 Training Camp and Preseason Thread: Part III

[Landeslog]

Is Rantanen more NHL ready at this point than Matt Duchene and Landeskog were at the same time?

I'd say so. Based on the one day of camp and one preseason game I saw. He makes smart plays and is generally mistake free. His two turnovers at the end of the game weren't so much bad decision making, he whiffed on a couple passes that basically got picked off in the open ice. And after the first major turnover where EJ saved his butt he got the puck right back and made the best non-scoring play of the game, in my opinion. Got robbed by Budaj on a wrap around. He doesn't have that Duchene thing where he gets emotional. He really just plays a mature game. Did not look like a rookie.

 

[henchman21]

Grigs needs a solid 30-40 games. He needs to find his niche and adapt to the NHL. It won't happen overnight for him, but he needs to be given a real chance and a long leash.

 

[Iceberg]

I hope you're joking with either of the first two. The guy is the 3rd youngest forward on the team if Rantanen makes it. He's not had a great preseason but have some patience.

So, 30 it is.

I know he is young, but it seems to me the flaws he is showing are the same ones that have been criticized before, and the reasons why he lost basically all his value since before he was drafted.

To be honest i was not expecting much out of him, but was somehow counting on him grabbing hold of that 3C spot and keeping Mitchell on the 4th line, and i'm already bracing myself for that not happening.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

Rantanen looks like he can play in the NHL, but there's no way he's more NHL ready than Landeskog was as a rookie.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I read a few "fantasy" mags on a plane a couple of weeks ago and there were one magazine who were very high on Grigo. Expected 50 points from him in a new system. I forget which one it was.

 

[Landeslog]

Rantanen looks like he can play in the NHL, but there's no way he's more NHL ready than Landeskog was as a rookie.

I honestly don't remember much about landeskog before his rookie year started haha.

But with Duchene I went to all the days of rookie camp and regular camp. But they're such different players. Duchene needed to adjust to the NHL more.
I'm riding a Rantanen high right now.

Also, my expectations for landeskog and Duchene were straight to the NHL. Rantanen has been a complete surprise for me. He wasn't what I expected

 

[RockLobster]

So, when will it be ok to give up on Grigorenko?

Hmm, interesting question, let's see the options!

5 games, 10 games

30 games?

To be serious for a moment, why would we "give up on him" after 5-10 games? Or even 30? 30 would probably be the minimum because of how much jerking around, development wise, he got in Buffalo. He may turn out to not be salvageable (which would be a shame, based on the talent that is obviously there), but if people who have watched the games say that he's not a liability, then there's no reason to "give up on him" until his "leash" (however long it may be) is completely exhausted.

 

[hockeyfish]

I read a few "fantasy" mags on a plane a couple of weeks ago and there were one magazine who were very high on Grigo. Expected 50 points from him in a new system. I forget which one it was.

And it's certainly possible. A few less than great pre-season games doesn't make a whole bad year.

 

[Spender]

I really hope Rantanen makes it, sounds like he would be a contributor from the get go.

 

[henchman21]

Rantanen looks like he can play in the NHL, but there's no way he's more NHL ready than Landeskog was as a rookie.

Yep... Landy was one of the most NHL ready players I have ever seen at his age. I haven't seen Rantanen enough to judge, but I'd be surprised if he was nearly as ready as Landy was.

 

[Landeslog]

Do we know anything about the everberg injury? Other than it's a hip?

 

[RockLobster]

Do we know anything about the everberg injury? Other than it's a hip?

Not a thing.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Yep... Landy was one of the most NHL ready players I have ever seen at his age. I haven't seen Rantanen enough to judge, but I'd be surprised if he was nearly as ready as Landy was.

Landeskog is just a freak of nature . I hate giving him credit for stuff because it's just so unfair of the physique that man has at his age. He truly is a viking.

 

[Landeslog]

Not a thing.

That's infuriating.
He's important to the prospect of not having an incompetent 4th line.

 

[agentblack]

As long as Grigs isnt a liability (which he isnt) you keep him until you can replace him with someone better or younger and better. Which is saying something seeing as he is only 21. There is no one in the org. that comes close to his blend of size, skill, potential. So they cant just get rid of him.

 

[Iceberg]

To be serious for a moment, why would we "give up on him" after 5-10 games? Or even 30? 30 would probably be the minimum because of how much jerking around, development wise, he got in Buffalo. He may turn out to not be salvageable (which would be a shame, based on the talent that is obviously there), but if people who have watched the games say that he's not a liability, then there's no reason to "give up on him" until his "leash" (however long it may be) is completely exhausted.

I wonder how much of his lack of development had to do with Buffalo jerking him around and how much it may have to do with Grigorenko's inability to adapt to a more physical game.

 

[RockLobster]

I wonder how much of his lack of development had to do with Buffalo jerking him around and how much it may have to do with Grigorenko's inability to adapt to a more physical game.

He wasn't ready for the NHL when they drafted him and played him immediately the next year. So who's the say that he wouldn't have grown accustomed to the more physical nature of the NHL if he had been brought along properly.

On top of that, it seems like he's achieved all he can at the AHL level, so now is the time for him to begin getting used to the NHL, properly, with a coach/organization that can hopefully get the best out of him.

 

[agentblack]

I wonder how much of his lack of development had to do with Buffalo jerking him around and how much it may have to do with Grigorenko's inability to adapt to a more physical game.

How can he adapt if he's in and out of the lineup on a regular basis. AHL physicality =/NHL physicality
He just needs to play. Thats how he adjusts.
I dont get why people think Greg is this seasoned vet. He hasnt even cracked 50 NHL games, has he?

 

[flyfysher]

So, when will it be ok to give up on Grigorenko? 5 games, 10 games, 30 games?

This is unwarranted impatience with Grigorenko. I'll admit to being a biased fan because I've faith that he can do well under Roy.

For context, Duchess looked great his rookie year. Then, was it his second or third year that he didn't look so great and got injured and some fans were referring to him as a bust (on the Avs' website message boards IIRC) and calling for him to be traded.

What was it, last season that I saw Duchene on a scoring drought and finally he scored and gestured like he was tossing a monkey off his back. But how many fans are now saying Duchene is a bust and should be traded? Inconsistent and too emotional at times but the lesson here is to give the player some time.

Grigorneko whose development was so badly mishandled in Buffalo is not going to turn into an overnight sensation and even thirty games is, in my view, unreasonable.

 

[chet1926]

For me I'm treating Grigorenko as a rookie based off his screwed development in Buffalo. I expect some good, some bad, some learning experiences etc. I'm willing to give him a good 2 years before I write him off.

As long as he isn't hurting the team with his play I think he deserves a shot to develop. As soon as he starts to hurt the team negatively on a consistent basis the leash needs to be shortened. But hopefully this will never have to happen.

Honestly anything over 30 pts this year would be a big win in my books, if he gets offensive opportunities, I think the numbers will be there. Especially if he plays with MacKinnon.

 

[RockLobster]

Mike Chambers ‏@MikeChambers · 55s56 seconds ago
Jarome Iginla (hip) is not at main #Avalanche practice but he skated before. Don't see Everberg (hip) or Skille (leg) either

Not looking good, but I'll reserve making my decision on my feelings/thoughts on this until after BSN puts out a practice report (assuming they're there).

 

[The Kingslayer]

For me I'm treating Grigorenko as a rookie based off his screwed development in Buffalo. I expect some good, some bad, some learning experiences etc. I'm willing to give him a good 2 years before I write him off.

As long as he isn't hurting the team with his play I think he deserves a shot to develop. As soon as he starts to hurt the team negatively on a consistent basis the leash needs to be shortened. But hopefully this will never have to happen.

Honestly anything over 30 pts this year would be a big win in my books, if he gets offensive opportunities, I think the numbers will be there. Especially if he plays with MacKinnon.

Same.

 

[henchman21]

I think people are taking the 30 games thing wrong... when I say that, he needs to show some flashes of what he can be. It doesn't need to be consistent, nor does he need to score ~15 points... he just needs to show step towards carving out a NHL role. If after 30 games he is floundering and can't even take a regular 4th line shift... then I think we can get worried. I REALLY don't think that happens though.

I think after 30 games he has about 10-12 points and had about 5 really good games, 5 really bad games, and 20 games where he was pretty average.

 

[Iceberg]

He wasn't ready for the NHL when they drafted him and played him immediately the next year. So who's the say that he wouldn't have grown accustomed to the more physical nature of the NHL if he had been brought along properly.

On top of that, it seems like he's achieved all he can at the AHL level, so now is the time for him to begin getting used to the NHL, properly, with a coach/organization that can hopefully get the best out of him.

Question marks were there even before the draft, that's why he felt to the 12th pick. I really hope you guys are right about him, but i'm not getting my hopes up.

Than again, like agentblack said, its not like we have someone in the organization with his skills in his age group (outside Rantanen).

 

[RockLobster]

Question marks were there even before the draft, that's why he felt to the 12th pick. I really hope you guys are right about him, but i'm not getting my hopes up.

Than again, like agentblack said, its not like we have someone in the organization with his skills in his age group (outside Rantanen).

I don't think anyone necessarily has "sky high hopes" about him, but rather are looking at it as he's a rookie. He's 21, has had a poor (understatement) development track with Buffalo, and now he's playing for the coach that got the most out of him in the QMJHL. He may still not amount to anything worthwhile at the NHL level, but we won't know that after even 30 games. He'll need to be given a long look to determine where exactly he's at.