Prospect Info: 2015-16 Top 20 Flyers Prospects, #1

[FlyLife]

The Flyers had Provorov #3 on their board behind the obvious 2, as much as Sanheim has progressed since he was drafted, I have to pick Provorov here.

It's great that we have both!

 

[tade]

Wow. 105 votes, I didn't expect to see such high number. When I create poll on main board, there is like nobody voting.

I voted for Sanheim, but it doesn't matter. Sanheim/Provorov all the way. They're both sooo goood. It's really hard to decide between them.

 

[Curufinwe]

Seems like Sanheim vs Provorov will be the next Carter vs Richards debate.

The size & skating comparisons are even similar.

 

[Les Averman]

If Sanheim hits I think he'll be more dynamic than McDonagh. I'm thinking he'll be closer to a Pietrangelo type if that happens.

At the same time, you could argue that he'd be a Yandle with high offensive upside, plus skating and an average defensive game.

I'm not saying he will be, but he hasn't proven anywhere near enough defensively in his own zone to differ himself from a guy like that, in my opinion.

 

[briererocks]

At the same time, you could argue that he'd be a Yandle with high offensive upside, plus skating and an average defensive game.

I'm not saying he will be, but he hasn't proven anywhere near enough defensively in his own zone to differ himself from a guy like that, in my opinion.

Agreed - but I am hopeful given his talents that he can reach his full potential. Time will tell.

 

[Stizzle]

Problem is, Provorov's value isn't easily quantified by numbers, so of course Sanheim's season appears more impressive that way.

Points are what people are referring to when they say that they had equal seasons. So that's what I was trying to debunk. The myth that they had similar offensive output.

I understand Provorov impacts a game in ways that aren't easily quantifiable. But all of the sudden some people here are acting like Sanheim's defense is a big weak point. It really isn't. It's just a a step or two behind Provorov's at the moment, and I'd say Provorov's offense is a step or two behind Sanheim's offense.

 

[Curufinwe]

One is 19 and one is 18, though.

 

[FLYguy3911]

At the same time, you could argue that he'd be a Yandle with high offensive upside, plus skating and an average defensive game.

I'm not saying he will be, but he hasn't proven anywhere near enough defensively in his own zone to differ himself from a guy like that, in my opinion.

Didn't you just admit you haven't really seen him play in Calgary?

He's by no means a shutdown defenseman but it's not a concern for me. Half of defending is taking away time and space. With his size and skating ability I don't for see that being a problem. He's a bright kid that reads plays well. It's more about being fully committed to the defensive side of the puck. Early in the year he was a rock. He was locked in. Towards the end of the season he started losing focus. Think he was starting to get bored honestly. He can skate with anyone in that league.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

At the same time, you could argue that he'd be a Yandle with high offensive upside, plus skating and an average defensive game.

I'm not saying he will be, but he hasn't proven anywhere near enough defensively in his own zone to differ himself from a guy like that, in my opinion.

Pietrangelo was a pretty similar player to Sanheim at the same age. He wasn't considered the big two way defender that he is now. It wasn't because he couldn't play defense but rather he was so good offensively. He didn't fully round out his game until he played a couple of years at the pro level.

 

[FLYguy3911]

One is 19 and one is 18, though.

One is a man. One is a kid.

 

[Stizzle]

One is 19 and one is 18, though.

One is a fully physically developed person who hasn't grown in 2 years. The other still looks like a kid and is just starting to get his man strength.

 

[Random Forest]

Points are what people are referring to when they say that they had equal seasons.

No, it's not.

So that's what I was trying to debunk. The myth that they had similar offensive output.

Nobody is really suggesting they were equally impressive offensively.

I understand Provorov impacts a game in ways that aren't easily quantifiable. But all of the sudden some people here are acting like Sanheim's defense is a big weak point.

Again, no one is saying this. They're just saying Provorov is a bit better in that regard.

 

[Coffe]

Flipped a coin - got Provorov. Sanheim at #2.

 

[torkad frukt]

Tight race between Provorov and Sanheim, went with Provorov since he at least have been mentioned to be mature enough to maybe play in the NHL next season

 

[Ghost Bear]

Even though either Sanheim or Provorov is the right answer, I voted for Konecny. I like him.

 

[Jray42]

I went Sanheim, but it's really close between him and Provorov. I think Sanheim probably has the highest ceiling out of everyone, but Provorov isn't far behind.

 

[Haute Couturier]

Provorov because he is more polished and closer to being NHL ready. I also think Provorov's ceiling is a bit higher since he is better than Sanheim was at the age of 18.

 

[Stizzle]

No, it's not.

Nobody is really suggesting they were equally impressive offensively.

In the pre-draft thread at least a couple people certainly did.

Again, no one is saying this. They're just saying Provorov is a bit better in that regard.

One guy ITT quipped that Sanheim could turn out to be Yandle-like defensively.

 

[Dumpster Flyers]

What if he has 7?

People have a recency bias when it comes to prospects I find. Seen it with Gostisbehere. Seen it with Morin. With all the articles that have come out the last week or so, you would think Provorov is the next Ray Bourque. When Sanheim rips up the WJCs people will flip sides.

It's splitting hairs. Both are great prospects. Admittedly I am an upside guy but I've seen Sanheim play more than any prospect in hockey. I feel pretty confident in my projection of him as a player. He's going to be really good. It's a lot of projection but I feel he has a better chance to impact a game with his combination of size, skill, and speed.

Every one talks about the 4 S's when it comes to evaluating defense prospects. Well I got Saheim with the edge in 3 category's (two by a considerable amount) and a push in the smarts category. Both are elite in that regard. Provorov is stronger and more polished defensively but Sanheim will close the gap.

There are other biases in play other than "recency bias." For instance, Sanheim's has a year's worth of hype from Flyers fans behind him, while Provorov's only been with us for a week. Nothing against Sanheim, but it's not like votes for him are automatically more objective.

 

[CodyTheHuman]

Sanheim for me.

 

[McNasty]

I don't think it's really the shiny new toy syndrome, if it is it's a relatively new trend, Sanheim was 4th in this poll last summer and Laughton beat out Morin in 2013.

I have Sanheim and Provorov pretty close, I went with Provorov because I think he's closer to being NHL ready and has a higher floor.

 

[Legion of Gloom]

I think Sanheim has a higher offensive ceiling and skates like the wind so he is my choice.

 

[FLYguy3911]

There are other biases in play other than "recency bias." For instance, Sanheim's has a year's worth of hype from Flyers fans behind him, while Provorov's only been with us for a week. Nothing against Sanheim, but it's not like votes for him are automatically more objective.

What is it then Norm?

I see Sanheim doubled Provorov for #1 nods in this thread from not even a week ago: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1919219&highlight=sanheim+provorov+morin&page=4

 

[FLYguy3911]

I don't think it's really the shiny new toy syndrome, if it is it's a relatively new trend, Sanheim was 4th in this poll last summer and Laughton beat out Morin in 2013.

I have Sanheim and Provorov pretty close, I went with Provorov because I think he's closer to being NHL ready and has a higher floor.

Very few wanted Sanheim last year. The overwhelming majority of this board wanted Provorov this year. One also went 17th. The other 7th. Little different.

 

[Dumpster Flyers]

The thing with Sanheim is that I've never quite seen an offensive defenseman with his type of offensive instincts. He obviously gets points in the traditional way of making smart plays on the breakout and solid decision making on the offensive blueline, but he also gets quite a lot of points by hauling ass to the net and joining odd man attacks regularly. There aren't many defenders in the league who are as comfortable as Sanheim in joining the attack as the man driving the net. That particular skill reminds me a bit of Scott Niedermayer, though Niedermayer thought the game at an elite level, so it always worked for him.

So I'm curious to see how that mentality will translate to the NHL for Sanheim. I know he's proven to be very adaptable, and he's shown a willingness to play more conservatively depending on his role and the situation, but it is worth noting that a significant part of his offensive skill set is something we don't have much basis for projecting at the next level. It could be a major edge for Sanheim or it could be a nonfactor when he makes the jump to the NHL.

That's why I'd have Provorov ahead of him. I have almost no doubt that his particular skills will translate to the NHL. I'd also like to see Sanheim be a bit more assertive without the puck on his stick. I still love Sanheim, but I don't necessarily consider him a slam dunk prospect just yet. I do consider Provorov a slam dunk, though, which is why I have to pick him #1.

I'll probably pick Sanheim next, but I personally have him closer to Morin and Gostisbehere than Provorov. I recognize this is certainly debatable, although I could not disagree more that anyone of our prospects has "clearly" a higher ceiling than Provorov.

This summarizes how I feel as well. For what it's worth, Sanheim's offensive style reminds me a lot of Mike Green. It would be awesome if he progresses that way, but how many defensemen do we see in the NHL like that? He's also allowed to take a lot of chances on the rush, but can deal with counterattack threats fairly well because he can out skate junior players. I suspect Sanheim will adopt a different style in the NHL. No dangling forecheckers at the blueline to carry the puck deeper and no joining the odd man rush without numbers back (or at least far less of it).

Provorov creates offense through smart, effective plays and quick decision making, more in the Lidstrom or Timonen vein. Personally, I think it better complements the talented forwards he'd be playing with in the NHL. The more effective the puck distribution, the more time and space you give players like Giroux or Voracek to create. It's why I value intelligence so highly in defense prospects.

What is it then Norm?

I see Sanheim doubled Provorov for #1 nods in this thread from not even a week ago: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1919219&highlight=sanheim+provorov+morin&page=4

This is actually a good example of what I'm talking about. The longer Provorov is in our system, the more Flyers fans will read up on him and feed into the excitement/hype.