2015-16 Line-up discussion - focus on D edition

[Duck Off]

Except then we'd have a spare forward with no business being here for the next few months. It doesn't matter what you call it. You like Maroon, but the only argument for keeping him is if you think he was more useful than the three other guys we're waiting to get healthy/come off suspension.

And holy ****: Noesen? Why would we call up Noesen over Ritchie. We saw Noesen. He didn't generate as much as Ritchie is. That's why Ritchie is still here.

Ditto for Wagner. I'm guessing that Bob Murray isn't the only one worried about his team returning to the toothless offense of the first half of the season, so why would they call up a defensive specialist.

I don't agree with this. Having more depth is never a bad thing for a playoff run. If we just had to move a player, than we should have moved Santorelli.

I agree about Noesen and Wagner though. Ritchie isn't ready for the NHL, but he's currently the best option, but I also agree with Kalv, that Ritchie's struggles right now, are an example of why it was a mistake to trade Maroon, at the deadline.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Unfortunately, we also didn't have a generational forward to pair him up with.

We have a much larger sample size of his time in Anaheim, though. So, that cuts both ways.

No, just a former Hart and Rocket winner.

(I'm aware that we have McGinn)

 

[dracom]

I don't agree with this. Having more depth is never a bad thing for a playoff run. If we just had to move a player, than we should have moved Santorelli.

I agree about Noesen and Wagner though. Ritchie isn't ready for the NHL, but he's currently the best option, but I also agree with Kalv, that Ritchie's struggles right now, are an example of why it was a mistake to trade Maroon, at the deadline.

Moving Santo doesn't make sense. He's a UFA, Maroon still had term on a 2 million cap hit. Moving Maroon was as a cap move.

 

[Kalv]

I don't agree with this. Having more depth is never a bad thing for a playoff run. If we just had to move a player, than we should have moved Santorelli.

I agree about Noesen and Wagner though. Ritchie isn't ready for the NHL, but he's currently the best option, but I also agree with Kalv, that Ritchie's struggles right now, are an example of why it was a mistake to trade Maroon, at the deadline.

This.


But well... what about

Vatanen-Kesler-Silfverberg

Fowler-Despres
Lindholm-Manson
Theodore-Bieksa

 

[dracom]

This.


But well... what about

Vatanen-Kesler-Silfverberg

Fowler-Despres
Lindholm-Manson
Theodore-Bieksa

That'd be great!

 

[Kalv]

That'd be great!

But it will never work. If we`d try doing something remotely close to this, it`d be already tried. But on paper it looks good, yes

 

[Exit Dose]

This.

Santo is still a regular on this team, so you'll have expand on why 'this' even makes a lick of sense.

 

[Duck Off]

Moving Santo doesn't make sense. He's a UFA, Maroon still had term on a 2 million cap hit. Moving Maroon was as a cap move.

I'm not saying that I think we should have moved Maroon or Santo. Personally I think the smart move would have been to hold on to Maroon for depth, and dealt him in the off-season. However, if a player had to go because of the log jam we have, it should have been Santo.

 

[Duck Off]

Santo is still a regular on this team, so you'll have expand on why 'this' even makes a lick of sense.

Do you think it's likely that Santo is playing "when everyone is healthy"? The reasoning being thrown around for moving Maroon is "he'd just be sitting anyway". IMO, Santo is going to be in the same position.

 

[dracom]

I'm not saying that I think we should have moved Maroon or Santo. Personally I think the smart move would have been to hold on to Maroon for depth, and dealt him in the off-season. However, if a player had to go because of the log jam we have, it should have been Santo.

Why not hold on to Santo for depth instead of Maroon? Santo has looked better than Maroon has all season, plus he's a UFA at the end of the season. Maroon still costs 2 million for a couple of more years. Trading Maroon instead of Santo gives us a better depth player and frees up cap space.

 

[Exit Dose]

I'm not saying that I think we should have moved Maroon or Santo. Personally I think the smart move would have been to hold on to Maroon for depth, and dealt him in the off-season. However, if a player had to go because of the log jam we have, it should have been Santo.

They don't play the same positions. We had an excess of left wingers. We didn't have an excess of right wingers.

 

[Kalv]

Santo is still a regular on this team, so you'll have expand on why 'this' even makes a lick of sense.

I there stated ''This'' about the bolded part - about depth. No reason to move Santo, really.

 

[Exit Dose]

Do you think it's likely that Santo is playing "when everyone is healthy"? The reasoning being thrown around for moving Maroon is "he'd just be sitting anyway". IMO, Santo is going to be in the same position.

Depends on how Pirri does. Even then, we stuck with the more versatile player for this year's lineup. People are just *****ing about it because Maroon was a fan favorite. He wasn't more important to this year's team than Santorelli has been.

The argument isn't just that he'd be sitting. It's that he'd also be eating a lot of money with no clear route to the team. We have six players that play LW without Maroon. Maroon wasn't on a cheap short term deal. Sitting him in the press box wasn't going to make him any more tradable in the summer.

Should we have also traded for three more RWs at the deadline and two more centers. You know, because you can never have enough depth? The world doesn't operate on sayings.

 

[Duck Off]

They don't play the same positions. We had an excess of left wingers. We didn't have an excess of right wingers.

We're icing Ritchie right now because we're short one LW. Horcoff is a center, I don't know if there's a preferred wing side for him. Stewart is a RW. I don't know what to think about Pirri. I know he's a LW, but it sure sounds like the spot he's destinted for is Getzlaf's wing. I guess they could make Perron play the other side, and I know he's done it in the past, but IMO, I wouldn't change a thing with how he and Getz have played. I'm not convinced that he's definitely going to play on the left side.

 

[Exit Dose]

We're icing Ritchie right now because we're short one LW. Horcoff is a center, I don't know if there's a preferred wing side for him. Stewart is a RW. I don't know what to think about Pirri. I know he's a LW, but it sure sounds like the spot he's destinted for is Getzlaf's wing. I guess they could make Perron play the other side, and I know he's done it in the past, but IMO, I wouldn't change a thing with how he and Getz have played. I'm not convinced that he's definitely going to play on the left side.

Ritchie isn't here because we're short a left wing. Perron, Cogs, McGinn, and Garbutt are here. He got called up before we traded away a left winger.

 

[Duck Off]

Depends on how Pirri does. Even then, we stuck with the more versatile player for this year's lineup. People are just *****ing about it because Maroon was a fan favorite. He wasn't more important to this year's team than Santorelli has been.

The argument isn't just that he'd be sitting. It's that he'd also be eating a lot of money with no clear route to the team. We have six players that play LW without Maroon. Maroon wasn't on a cheap short term deal. Sitting him in the press box wasn't going to make him any more tradable in the summer.

Should we have also traded for three more RWs at the deadline and two more centers. You know, because you can never have enough depth? The world doesn't operate on sayings.

Maroon being a fan favorite has nothing to do why I am upset about the trade. Can't speak for others though.

A lot of money? Give me a break. If that was a lot of money, Murray would have at least attempted to waive him first to save twice what he was owed.

I said neither should have been traded, but yes, I would have rather traded Santo because if we retained, at least it'd only have been for the rest of this year. We have plenty of guys who can play the right side too.

Nope, we shouldn't have traded for that many players. Yet, maybe we should hold onto a solid 4th liner, who can play in the top 6, you know, so we don't have to play a rookie who isn't ready for the NHL yet...

And I disagree about him being in the pressbox in the playoffs making his value worse than what we moved him for. Not saying it helps him sitting there, but the off-season is always easier to make trades, and considering the value we received for him, I think someone at least matches that awful offer.

 

[Duck Off]

Ritchie isn't here because we're short a left wing. Perron, Cogs, McGinn, and Garbutt are here. He got called up before we traded away a left winger.

Ritchie is here because of an injuries and suspensions. In addition to having no better options. Do you think he's here when the others get back?

 

[Exit Dose]

Maroon being a fan favorite has nothing to do why I am upset about the trade. Can't speak for others though.

A lot of money? Give me a break. If that was a lot of money, Murray would have at least attempted to waive him first to save twice what he was owed.

Oh, please.

I said neither should have been traded, but yes, I would have rather traded Santo because if we retained, at least it'd only have been for the rest of this year. We have plenty of guys who can play the right side too.

Nope, we shouldn't have traded for that many players. Yet, maybe we should hold onto a solid 4th liner, who can play in the top 6, you know, so we don't have to play a rookie who isn't ready for the NHL yet...

And I disagree about him being in the pressbox in the playoffs making his value worse than what we moved him for. Not saying it helps him sitting there, but the off-season is always easier to make trades.

There's a reason why you have to resort to the more ambiguous terms like '4th liner' here.

As for value, tell it to Wiz.

 

[Exit Dose]

Ritchie is here because of an injuries and suspensions. In addition to having no better options. Do you think he's here when the others get back?

Maybe when Horcoff gets here. No, when Stewart or Pirri get back.

 

[Duck Off]

Oh, please.

Please what? If you don't have anything to say, no need for the smartass remark.

There's a reason why you have to resort to the more ambiguous terms like '4th liner' here.

As for value, tell it to Wiz.

That's exactly what Maroon was. A 4th liner, who could fill in the top 6 when needed.

Wiz is terrible comparison. Much larger contract, and he's constantly injured. Better comparisons are Shawn Thorton and Neil. There's a market for this type of player.

 

[dracom]

Maroon being a fan favorite has nothing to do why I am upset about the trade. Can't speak for others though.

A lot of money? Give me a break. If that was a lot of money, Murray would have at least attempted to waive him first to save twice what he was owed.

I said neither should have been traded, but yes, I would have rather traded Santo because if we retained, at least it'd only have been for the rest of this year. We have plenty of guys who can play the right side too.

Nope, we shouldn't have traded for that many players. Yet, maybe we should hold onto a solid 4th liner, who can play in the top 6, you know, so we don't have to play a rookie who isn't ready for the NHL yet...

And I disagree about him being in the pressbox in the playoffs making his value worse than what we moved him for. Not saying it helps him sitting there, but the off-season is always easier to make trades, and considering the value we received for him, I think someone at least matches that awful offer.

Santo has a cap hit of 875k, what is there to retain? Would you really rather retain on that for the rest of the season, lose out on a guy who can play center and RW, or retain 500k for the next two season for a bottom 6 LW? One makes more business sense than the other, hint, it's the deal that was made.

We really don't have that many guys who can play on the right. Perry and Silf are natural RW, everyone else is playing either on their offwing (Perron) or playing a new position (Santo).

We also don't know if that offer would have been there in the offseason, better to make the trade that you know can happen now, instead of wait for a trade that MIGHT happen.

 

[Duck Off]

Maybe when Horcoff gets here. No, when Stewart or Pirri get back.

Maroon and Ritchie fill the same role. I think Maroon is clearly better. Ritchie will go to SD when everyone is back. Maroon would have probably been benched. I get it. IMO, it's dumb to subtract a depth player before a playoff run, but it's completely asinine to trade him for a horrible return, at the deadline. At least wait until the off-season.

 

[Duck Off]

Santo has a cap hit of 875k, what is there to retain? Would you really rather retain on that for the rest of the season, lose out on a guy who can play center and RW, or retain 500k for the next two season for a bottom 6 LW? One makes more business sense than the other, hint, it's the deal that was made.

We really don't have that many guys who can play on the right. Perry and Silf are natural RW, everyone else is playing either on their offwing (Perron) or playing a new position (Santo).

We also don't know if that offer would have been there in the offseason, better to make the trade that you know can happen now, instead of wait for a trade that MIGHT happen.

Again, I WOULD NOT HAVE TRADED EITHER OF MAROON OR SANTO. You do not subtract useful players for crap returns before a cup run.

No it's not better to make that move now. In fact, it's better to try and waive him to see if someone will take him for free rather than retaining. You're right, we don't know if that offer is there in the off-season. However, since the offer was complete garbage, you don't take it now. You gamble. Trades are much easier to make in the off-season. The Oilers clearly aren't trading for players to improve them this year, so I seriously doubt they lose all interest come draft time. Plus, more teams would have cap space so it potentially improves the amount of suitors.

 

[Exit Dose]

Please what? If you don't have anything to say, no need for the smartass remark.

I think the actual GM probably had a better idea of how to handle that situation. In case you haven't noticed, there's not a player movement this year. Why do you think that is?

That's exactly what Maroon was. A 4th liner, who could fill in the top 6 when needed.

Wiz is terrible comparison. Much larger contract, and he's constantly injured. Better comparisons are Shawn Thorton and Neil. There's a market for this type of player.

Yeah, but you're phrasing it that way because you're ducking the fact that we have a ton of guys that play LW and not a ton of guys that available to play right. Remember, we have a LW'er up over Noesen right now because we don't have a ton of guys for those jobs.

Wiz was brought up because he was highly sought after at the deadline. Yet, half of a season(plus playoffs) riding the pine saw his value plummet to Anton Khudobin. A '4th liner', a niche one that doesn't fit every team out there, doing the same on Maroon's contract doesn't become easier to move doing the same. Guys like that become buyout targets.

 

[dracom]

Again, I WOULD NOT HAVE TRADED EITHER OF MAROON OR SANTO. You do not subtract useful players for crap returns before a cup run.

No it's not better to make that move now. In fact, it's better to try and waive him to see if someone will take him for free rather than retaining. You're right, we don't know if that offer is there in the off-season. However, since the offer was complete garbage, you don't take it now. You gamble. Trades are much easier to make in the off-season. The Oilers clearly aren't trading for players to improve them this year, so I seriously doubt they lose all interest come draft time. Plus, more teams would have cap space so it potentially improves the amount of suitors.

Waiving a guy who worked his ass off to get into the NHL is kind of a messed up move. Don't see Murray being that kind of guy. The offer isn't complete garbage, the 4th is a high 4th and our scouts are pretty good. We did get Vats out of a 4th round after all. I would rather go into the off season knowing we have more cap space for our RFAs instead of having Maroon sitting in the press box during the playoffs and hoping we can trade him in the off season.