2015-16 Line-up discussion - focus on D edition

[AngelDuck]

The team has shown signs of a real turnaround lately. I don't think you blow it up anymore.

I think this team is capable of winning playoff series if they add one more scorer (not sure Drouin is that guy yet).

I mean imagine how good this team would be at shot suppression with a healthy Fowler and Despres. They are already elite at it as it stands

Are they going to be an all around great team at any point this year? No, but no one in the West is this year. LA and Chicago are not as good as they were when they won the cup. Dallas has flaws on defense and in their bottom 6

The only team in the league that is elite on offense, defense, and goaltending is Washington and we wouldn't have to play them until the cup final anyway

 

[Duck Off]

agreed.

The notion to blow things up is honestly quite stupid. However, it is pathetic how Murray turned this team from a contender to struggling to make the playoffs. It's worse that he's done nothing to try and help his awful mistakes this offseason.

I'll give Bieksa credit. He's played so much better lately. He's still not as good as Beauchemin, but he's not been a liability. He'll be fine in a bottom pair role. However, the lack of goal scoring is ridiculously evident. People can ***** at Getzlaf all they want, but that line is the only scoring threat. Kesler is playing well too, but I'm sick of Silfverberg, as well as Carl "almost" Hagelin. One of these two need to go, now.

 

[AngelDuck]

agreed.

The notion to blow things up is honestly quite stupid. However, it is pathetic how Murray turned this team from a contender to struggling to make the playoffs. It's worse that he's done nothing to try and help his awful mistakes this offseason.

I'll give Bieksa credit. He's played so much better lately. He's still not as good as Beauchemin, but he's not been a liability. He'll be fine in a bottom pair role. However, the lack of goal scoring is ridiculously evident. People can ***** at Getzlaf all they want, but that line is the only scoring threat. Kesler is playing well too, but I'm sick of Silfverberg, as well as Carl "almost" Hagelin. One of these two need to go, now.

Totally agree, especially with the bolded
I want to believe Murray is going to get rid of at least one of Silfverberg/Hagelin/Cogliano

I don't see how it's possible for him to want to keep all three.

Bieksa is an overpaid #5 dman. He's a better player than Stoner though, so I can see an argument for keeping him. plus he has an NTC

Manson needs to remain in the lineup when Despres/Fowler get back though...he flashes legit top 4 ability on a nightly basis

 

[Duck Off]

Totally agree, especially with the bolded
I want to believe Murray is going to get rid of at least one of Silfverberg/Hagelin/Cogliano

I don't see how it's possible for him to want to keep all three.

Bieksa is an overpaid #5 dman. He's a better player than Stoner though, so I can see an argument for keeping him. plus he has an NTC

Manson needs to remain in the lineup when Despres/Fowler get back though...he flashes legit top 4 ability on a nightly basis

I don't want to keep Bieksa. IMO, he should be moved, but I don't think moving he and Stoner is realistic. I'm up in the air on which one I'd move. I think it depends on who goes to upgrade the roster. I think Bieksa is better, and can handle big minutes better. However, Stoner is better at his role, and Bruce seems to have a better feel for what he can handle than Stoner. One of them must go though. Ideally both go.

 

[The Duck Knight]

I don't want to keep Bieksa. IMO, he should be moved, but I don't think moving he and Stoner is realistic. I'm up in the air on which one I'd move. I think it depends on who goes to upgrade the roster. I think Bieksa is better, and can handle big minutes better. However, Stoner is better at his role, and Bruce seems to have a better feel for what he can handle than Stoner. One of them must go though. Ideally both go.

I can't stand Bieksa, but at least he can make a first pass and skate. Ideally we'd dump both, but if we could only move one I'd move Stoner and hopefully get Bieksa on the 3rd pair next year playing 16-18 minutes per.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

Realistic scenario would be, for a team willing to contend for a cup (not just trying to remain relevant in a PO race), is to bite the bullet and cut your losses. That means shipping out some assets with Stoner/Bieksa, buying out the other one thus making room to sign crucial players and have certain flexibility. Also would be wise to try and find a trade for Hagelin before his NTC kicks in.

Samueli has got his cup though, therefore I'm not so sure he would be on-board with buying people out.

 

[Duck Off]

I can't stand Bieksa, but at least he can make a first pass and skate. Ideally we'd dump both, but if we could only move one I'd move Stoner and hopefully get Bieksa on the 3rd pair next year playing 16-18 minutes per.

There are so many factors that it's really impossible to pick right now.

Will Vatanen and Lindholm be re-signed to long term deals?

Will one of Lindholm, Fowler, or Vatanen be traded?

Will one of Theodore, Manson, or Montour be traded to upgrade the forwards?

Until we know the answer to these questions, it's very difficult to pick which one.

 

[Ducks in a row]

The team has shown signs of a real turnaround lately. I don't think you blow it up anymore.

I think this team is capable of winning playoff series if they add one more scorer (not sure Drouin is that guy yet).

I mean imagine how good this team would be at shot suppression with a healthy Fowler and Despres. They are already elite at it as it stands

Are they going to be an all around great team at any point this year? No, but no one in the West is this year. LA and Chicago are not as good as they were when they won the cup. Dallas has flaws on defense and in their bottom 6

The only team in the league that is elite on offense, defense, and goaltending is Washington and we wouldn't have to play them until the cup final anyway

Ducks scoring problems remain I haven't seen a turn around that would keep the Ducks from needing to make a big trade. Small trades just wont do it.

 

[Duck Off]

Ducks scoring problems remain I haven't seen a turn around that would keep the Ducks from needing to make a big trade. Small trades just wont do it.

The team has definitely been playing better for a while now. The goal scoring has remained a constant problem, and unfortunately it's going to require a big change due to Murray's **** up of an offseason. however, that doesn't mean we have to blow up the roster. May require a core piece being moved though.

 

[GreatBear]

At this point we probably need to wait until near the February 29 trade deadline to maximize the demand for whatever players we can move this season. Teams aiming for a Cup will be willing to trade for depth, and may be willing to take players at that time that they otherwise would not want. The problems are: 1) who can we get rid of that we actually want to get rid of, and 2) what do we get back.

The best market for our players will be for one or more of our defensemen. It may be possible to move Holzer and/or Stoner at that time, as well as either Vatanen or Mason. I doubt that we can move prospects at that time unless they are NHL ready, since the goal for the other team is to improve now, not in a few years.

I really don't see much of a market for our forwards, with the exception of Horcoff. He can make a solid contribution in the bottom six and his contract expires after this year. He is the perfect player for a trade deadline deal. However, the return is probably not going to be much, maybe a third round draft choice. Otherwise, unless someone starts producing, there is not going to be much demand for the players that BM has assembled.

 

[Ducks in a row]

The team has definitely been playing better for a while now. The goal scoring has remained a constant problem, and unfortunately it's going to require a big change due to Murray's **** up of an offseason. however, that doesn't mean we have to blow up the roster. May require a core piece being moved though.

What core piece? It cant be Fowler or Lindholm if we are expected to actually be better. The only core piece I can see is Vatanen but even then it would cause a big hit to our offense from the blueline.

 

[AngelDuck]

Ducks scoring problems remain I haven't seen a turn around that would keep the Ducks from needing to make a big trade. Small trades just wont do it.

Obviously scoring is a problem. We all know that, no point in regurgitating it. Murray needs to trade for a scorer. OK we know

It was also a problem for the Kings in 2012

IMO the team is playing a better brand of hockey right now than they did all last year minus the scoring. I'm extremely impressed with the team defense and goaltending. Opposing teams are struggling to get to 25 shots against this team on almost a nightly basis these days. That's impressive and something we haven't seen since Pronger and Niedermayer were here

If they ever figure out the scoring thing, they might be the favorites to come out of the west after all

 

[AngelDuck]

Also, winning the Pacific division is a bad thing this year. The Kings are going to have to play probably Nashville in the first round. Meanwhile if we finish 3rd, we're playing either Vancouver or Arizona.

I don't think it needs to be said that we'd have a much easier first round matchup than the Kings, who are probably going to play a 6-7 game series first round

The Ducks would take care of Vancouver/Arizona in 4-5 games much like they did Winnipeg and Calgary last year

 

[Daz28]

I can't stand Bieksa, but at least he can make a first pass and skate. Ideally we'd dump both, but if we could only move one I'd move Stoner and hopefully get Bieksa on the 3rd pair next year playing 16-18 minutes per.

Gets shots through, too. He's starting to remind me why I used to like him.

 

[Paul4587]

I can't stand Bieksa, but at least he can make a first pass and skate. Ideally we'd dump both, but if we could only move one I'd move Stoner and hopefully get Bieksa on the 3rd pair next year playing 16-18 minutes per.

The problem with that is so long as Bieksa is here BB is going to keep throwing him out there for 20+ minutes per game. If you could guarantee me that when everybody was healthy BB would limit his ice time to third pairing minutes and stop throwing him out on the PP then I'd much prefer him over Stoner.

Basically I'd rather keep Stoner and see him in a #6-7 role than keep Bieksa and see him in a top 4 role. Bieksa still sucks, it's just less obvious now that we're trapping and playing more conservatively.

 

[Duck Off]

What core piece? It cant be Fowler or Lindholm if we are expected to actually be better. The only core piece I can see is Vatanen but even then it would cause a big hit to our offense from the blueline.

One of our D. Unfortunately one is probably going to have to go because Murray doesn't have good vision in building a roster. We have 7+ million tied up in Stoner and Bieksa, and over 10 million tied up in Cogs, Hags, and Silfverberg. Other parts of the roster have to suffer because of this, but that doesn't mean we can't overcome them. There's absolutely zero reason to blow this team up.

 

[KelVarnsen]

Is this really true?

Yes. Stephens sent it out I believe.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

Yes. Stephens sent it out I believe.

I posted stats through first 38 games in Jets GDT: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=111605201&postcount=88

Updated:

Season|GP|#GP with <= 1 goal scored|PCT
2014-15|41|7|17%
2015-16|41|20|49%

2014-15
2015-16

EDIT: Added table with goals conceeded <= 1 through 41 games:

Season |GP|GA <= 1|GA <= 2|GA <= 3
2014-15|41|12|21|30
2015-16|41|12|22|30

 

[Paul4587]

I posted stats through first 38 games in Jets GDT: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=111605201&postcount=88

Updated:

Season|GP|#GP with <= 1 goal scored|PCT
2014-15|41|7|17%
2015-16|41|20|49%

2014-15
2015-16

EDIT: Added table with goals conceeded <= 1 through 41 games:

Season|GP|#GP with <= 1 goal conceeded|PCT
2014-15|41|12|29%
2015-16|41|12|29%

That makes it all the more clear that the issue is up front. And Bieksa playing 20+ minutes a night but that's another story.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

Edited GA table to include <= 2 and 3 goals.

 

[paine]

Am I the only one who would be okay with:

Fowler - Despres
Lindholm - Vatanen
Theodore - Manson

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

Am I the only one who would be okay with:

Fowler - Despres
Lindholm - Vatanen
Theodore - Manson

This is HF, so no. But that doesn't make it okay.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

i agree that there are underlying reasons to be optimistic but anaheim still needs improvement from current players and a top 6 forward.

the ducks are 3rd in the league at shot prevention, 1st in PK, 3rd in faceoffs and after tonight will be in the top 5 of goals against...all signs of a strong defensive team

ducks are 2nd in SAT%

the team has to score more there is no question but there does appear to be a solid defensive structure in place to build on

 

[duxfan1101]

i agree that there are underlying reasons to be optimistic but anaheim still needs improvement from current players and a top 6 forward.

the ducks are 3rd in the league at shot prevention, 1st in PK, 3rd in faceoffs and after tonight will be in the top 5 of goals against...all signs of a strong defensive team

ducks are 2nd in SAT%

the team has to score more there is no question but there does appear to be a solid defensive structure in place to build on

Not to mention with guys like Despres and Fowler out for extended periods of time.

 

[Sean Garrity]

Am I the only one who would be okay with:

Fowler - Despres
Lindholm - Vatanen
Theodore - Manson

No, because I'd rather move one of those young defenseman for some forward help.