Prospect Info: 2015-16 Colorado Avalanche Prospects Thread II (QMJHL, NCAA and Europe)

[S E P H]

LOL at the people having Bleackley still as a top 10 prospect. He's not and if Avs ever considered him a top 10 draftee in their organization, he would have been signed...not only by us, but by Arizona. Honestly, Avs probably consider Siemens a better prospect on their list, and rightfully so. Wood would definitely be in the top 10, but on the lower side of it IMO.

None of those goalies are going to be in the pro system for another two seasons at least. Gustavsson and Vehvilainen aren't going to come over here to play in the ECHL right after being drafted. So right now we have two holes in our goaltending pipeline:

NHL Starter: Varly
NHL Back-up/1B Starter: Pickard

AHL Goalies: Berra/Martin

ECHL Goalie: None

Legitimate Goalie Prospect: None

What ever goalie we draft will go into the Legitimate Goalie Prospect category which leaves the ECHL goalie spot empty. It's important to use the ECHL as a developing tool in this stage to provide not only depth, but to also provide a late blooming goalie with a chance at the pro level. In a situation like this I am in favour of bringing in an overager goalie to fill that ECHL spot.

Even if Marchand/whoever can become a decent AHL goalie then it would be great to have them in the organization to provide stable goaltending in the AHL along with providing mentorship to goalies coming through the system. The Avalanche are looking at bringing in a goalie so they feel the same way I do or at least feel it's important to have 5 goalies in the pro system.

Yeah I know that those goalers won't be with the organization, but Avs really don't need a back up to the back up to the back up.

And not really, Avs do have a legitimate goaler prospect in Martin. Maybe Aittokallio as well considering the season he just had. Just because Martin is going to be in the AHL next season doesn't mean he is done at being "legit". Marchand won't come to being our next best goaler prospect as you said above.

I'm fine with signing a goaler, I am in agreement with you, the problem is posters here thinking Marchand will become something. Anything is possible, but that percentage is quite low. I would much rather have Avs go into Europe, especially KHL (who have a ton of young underrated goalers) than get Marchand. And as I said, Avs have MUCH bigger priorities to address than to figure out who gets to sit on the bench for Nagle. Why don't we just sign Nagle as that stability...

 

[tigervixxxen]

Who would you suggest are 10 better not using Bigras, Zadorov, Rantanen, Compher and Pickard?

 

[cgf]

Sure thing seph, and Arsenal would never spend anywhere near 45M euros on a "6".

 

[S E P H]

Who would you suggest are 10 better not using Bigras, Zadorov, Rantanen, Compher and Pickard?

Makes no sense why I can't use Compher, but okay...
1. Sergachyov/Brown (1st round placeholder)
2. Greer
3. Meloche
4. Martin
5. Bastien/Allard (2nd round placeholder)
6. Mironov
7. Beaudin
8. Nantel
9. Aittokallio
10. Rendulic/Lindholm/Geertsen

Wood would probably be at 8th.

Sure thing seph, and Arsenal would never spend anywhere near 45M euros on a "6".

Didn't they spend like 30 million pounds, which is like 40 Euros? Not my fault that the Union's currency sucks.

 

[cgf]

Stop trolling tv seph. You can't be serious with that list.

 

[innocuous octopus]

Who would you suggest are 10 better not using Bigras, Zadorov, Rantanen, Compher and Pickard?

meloche
greer
nantel
beaudin
mironov
geertsen
butcher
martin
lindholm
boikov

 

[S E P H]

Stop trolling tv seph. You can't be serious with that list.

Saying I'm "trolling" because you disagree with it is a nonsense argument cgf. Bleackley isn't going to be signed by two NHL teams, he isn't a top 10 prospect in ANY organization.

 

[Foppa2118]

We can hold onto his rights, but we'll still have to wait out his new contract...unless it included some sort of unreported buy-out clause he can trigger. So even if we don't "lose" him, we can't add him to the avs before Wood/Meloche would be entering the mix anyway. Which is why it negates his readiness advantage.

I don't disagree with henchy on much of substance. Though I'm thrilled to have Greer, I wouldn't use the word confidence with him; if only because of how much more polish he still needs; but that's really just semantics and everything else I'd agree with. I like Mironov as a player and still think there's a good chance that one of Geertsen/Boikov is able to become a legit 3rd pairing guy & PK-specialist in this league; but I don't see Mironov coming over any time soon...which plays to Wood's talent advantage...don't think Geertsen or Boikov will be ready significantly sooner than Wood, and don't rate Siemens/Butcher's chances much with this organization.


I should clarify that when I said that 'Wood was closer but Meloche would likely pass him', I literally just meant at which stage in their development they were. I am in full agreement that Meloche should be ready for his crack at the NHL a full year (or even two) before Wood...and that I am much more confident in him becoming an NHL top 4 guy than I am in Wood doing the same.

True, Mironov could never come over, or never pan out either. I was just pointing out he'd still be an option, or a possibility as I took that to mean.

 

[tigervixxxen]

You can use Compher if you take out the imaginary prospects we don't have yet or the players who have already left the org for Europe.

The point is about THIS org, the one where it's not easy to come up with even 10 good names. We're using Lindholm now, who didn't even make our top 25 before the season just because he's signed now? I love Nantel but I'd love to hear the argument that he's a better prospect than Bleackley. But really don't bother, we'll see what happens at the draft.

 

[ABasin]

But really don't bother, we'll see what happens at the draft.

Seriously. The schizophrenia in this forum in regards to prospects is staggering sometimes.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Makes no sense why I can't use Compher, but okay...
1. Sergachyov/Brown (1st round placeholder)
2. Greer
3. Meloche
4. Martin
5. Bastien/Allard (2nd round placeholder)
6. Mironov
7. Beaudin
8. Nantel
9. Aittokallio
10. Rendulic/Lindholm/Geertsen

Wood would probably be at 8th.


Didn't they spend like 30 million pounds, which is like 40 Euros? Not my fault that the Union's currency sucks.

That's a joke, right? You can't possible be serious.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Saying I'm "trolling" because you disagree with it is a nonsense argument cgf. Bleackley isn't going to be signed by two NHL teams, he isn't a top 10 prospect in ANY organization.

That just means 2 organizations think more highly of a 2nd round pick.

 

[El Travo]

I don't quite understand the whole listing a Top 10 Avalanche Prospect list without listing 5 of our prospects.

Sure, take out Zadorov as he has played 89 games (mostly with another organization), but the next highest amount of games played is 36. Rantanen has played a whopping 9 games and Compher played in college last year.

It's like saying "Colorado has no good centres! Name me a good centre on that team without saying Duchene, MacKinnon or Soderberg!"

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

I don't quite understand the whole listing a Top 10 Avalanche Prospect list without listing 5 of our prospects.

Sure, take out Zadorov as he has played 89 games (mostly with another organization), but the next highest amount of games played is 36. Rantanen has played a whopping 9 games and Compher played in college last year.

It's like saying "Colorado has no good centres! Name me a good centre on that team without saying Duchene, MacKinnon or Soderberg!"

Zadorov, Bigras, Rantanen and Pickard will be in the NHL next year. Hard to call someone an NHL/Av prospect if they are playing with the Avs/in the NHL.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I don't quite understand the whole listing a Top 10 Avalanche Prospect list without listing 5 of our prospects.

Sure, take out Zadorov as he has played 89 games (mostly with another organization), but the next highest amount of games played is 36. Rantanen has played a whopping 9 games and Compher played in college last year.

It's like saying "Colorado has no good centres! Name me a good centre on that team without saying Duchene, MacKinnon or Soderberg!"

Because they are going to be in the NHL next year. Compher is iffy so fine use him. It's like when people were listing McDavid as a prospect last summer (please nobody respond like I'm saying McDavid is comparable to our players). In any other thread if someone makes an argument like they won't be its met with "Sakic already said", it can't work both ways. If and when any of them spend more time in the AHL than NHL next season then fine, call them a prospect. The point of being a prospect is not in the NHL. It's about depth and development, it's what's in the pipeline and the system, that's the whole point of discussing the system. That's how it works, there's supposed to be graduations and then you replenish the next year. Looking at it before graduations doesn't make it better. It's like looking at your bank balance on payday before you've paid the bills.

 

[El Travo]

Zadorov, Bigras, Rantanen and Pickard will be in the NHL next year. Hard to call someone an NHL/Av prospect if they are playing with the Avs/in the NHL.

Rantanen was expected to be in the NHL this past year. Look how that worked out.

If those guys are sure things to be in the NHL next year, does that not say something about the quality of our young guys? No?

 

[landy92mack29]

start of next year top 10 would be:
1-10th pick
2-Meloche
3-Beaudin
4-Compher
5-Greer
6-40th pick
7-Martin
8-Geertsen
9-Mironov
10-71st pick

Bigras, Rantanen and Pickard are locks to reach 40+ games

Wood would be 3/4 and Bleackley 5-7

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Rantanen was expected to be in the NHL this past year. Look how that worked out.

If those guys are sure things to be in the NHL next year, does that not say something about the quality of our young guys? No?

Rantanen was not expected to be in the NHL. He had a really good camp and got a chance that way. But, if any of these guys do get sent back down, sure call them prospects. They will then be in the system. They will be working toward becoming and Av/NHL player in that case.

Them being in the nhl doesn't say anything about anyone other than those 4 individuals.

 

[S E P H]

You can use Compher if you take out the imaginary prospects we don't have yet or the players who have already left the org for Europe.

The point is about THIS org, the one where it's not easy to come up with even 10 good names. We're using Lindholm now, who didn't even make our top 25 before the season just because he's signed now? I love Nantel but I'd love to hear the argument that he's a better prospect than Bleackley. But really don't bother, we'll see what happens at the draft.

The only thing that matters is that two of them have ELCs and one doesn't. Hell, even St. Louis had a contract with Calgary I believe, so having a contract is definitely important.

You're looking Bleackley at a draft position standpoint, just because Connor was selected in the first round doesn't mean Avs think he will be projected better than Nantel or Lindholm. Trading him and having another organization not wanting to sign him show what either of them think. There is something behind the scenes which they don't like, and it's not like all of these guys are idiots. It goes along the same line of posters thinking Jeff Heerema is a better player than Pavel Datsyuk, even when Pavel went 161 picks after.

And a more accurate list would include Zadorov, Bigras, Rantanen, and Compher (which all never really got consistent substantial minutes in the NHL). If you decide to take away the top 3-5 prospects of every team, of course Bleackley will somehow end up there, but again, it doesn't really prove a point of Bleackley's talent level. It's more of a bias to show a personal agenda at hand.

1. Rantanen
2. Zadorov
3. Bigras
4. Compher
5. Greer
6. Meloche
7. Martin
8. Mironov
9. Beaudin
10. Wood

Is a more accurate list until June 25th, where the stockpile will be transferred taking away players that are probably locked as NHL players in the fall like Zadorov, Rantanen, and Bigras. This proving that Bleackley was never a top 10 player, all of us overvalued him (even though I personally didn't want him over other players).

Also which prospect on my past list has left to Europe? I need an official statement or news source.

 

[El Travo]

It took eliminating half of our Top-10 just for Bleakley to crack the list. Of course a prospect pool is going to look shallow when you have 5 graduates at the same time.

 

[Foppa2118]

I think we can all agree Bleckley is a decent prospect, and all things being equal it would be nice to have him as another potential option, even if we disagree on how we'd rank him, and the circumstances that caused his departure.

In the end though Roy and Sakic know they can't make a habit of losing key prospects, and they've even learned from the Stuart and Berra trades that they have to keep their top picks in the first two rounds for the next little while, because Sakic explicitly stated this and stuck by it.

Even if Blecks turns out to be a decent 3rd liner, it won't be the first time an organization lost a 3rd line draft pick for essentially nothing. The league is littered with them, and at the very least they have others that should turn out better than 3rd liners or the D equivalent. At the other end of the spectrum, or even a middle ground scenario, it's even less of an issue. Not a non issue, but a lesser issue.

What would make it an issue is if they kept repeating the same scenario, or went back to handing out 2nd rounders like candy for players that didn't help them, or missed on more 1st round picks, or kept missing on all their 3rd and later picks. Then you could look at the Bleackley situation and lump it all together to point out their failure in regard to the prospect pool, but I really don't think there's a big cause for concern in that area. If it does turn out to be the case, then it was totally a fair criticism.

 

[tigervixxxen]

That's a fair way to look at it, Foppa.

And with that let's move to a new thread and hopefully move forward.