League News: 2015-16 Around the League V (NHL News n' Scores n' Stuff)

[billcook]

How is 40-40 better than 50-30? Goals are more desirable than assists. A few players get 50 assists every year, only one player gets 50 goals. The whole argument for Ovechkin being the best forward in the world (at least last year) is that he brought more to the table than any other forward because of what you mentioned and the 50 goals.

40-40 is better all-around offensive production that's how. The way Ovechkin was at his peak (although he was 55-55, not 40-40).



Goals are rarer statistical event than assists (there is more of them and that's why in lower scoring environment goals are viewed even more valuable), doesn't mean they are more desirable just because.

It's irrelevant if there is more goals or more assists scored when comparing true game breaking talent (superstars), because they proved it with consistent production nobody gets most points for several years because of fluke secondary assists or easy pp goals. 'One year wonders' do, not superstars.

What's more important is overall amount of provided offense and balance.



Ovechkin was considered best forward because he is silver unicorn in today NHL, perceived change of his 'defensive' game under Trotz and that nobody separated himself point wise.

If Tarasenko would not get injured (he didn't play full season, played through it some games and his production suffered) he would compete with Ovechkin for best forward title last year.

Tarasenko is a little bit better than Kuzy and managed to get $7.5M. Granted, he is the Blues' franchise player whereas Kuzy is only one of the most important players on the team. It's not unreasonable to sign Kuzy to a 8 year $56M contract. We will have him at an affordable price for most of his prime.

Tarasenko isn't 'a little better'. He is main catalyst and driving force behind Blues offense.

Kuznetsov is playing under Ovechkin-Backstrom, doesn't get same matchups and gets great offensive zone starts.

For example if Kuz could separate himself as much as Kane did this year (from teammates, not league wise) then he would get benefit of doubt the same way Kane does because of great matchups, but he didn't (Backstrom is right with him offense wise and miles ahead in 'all-around' game).

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

40-40 is better all-around offensive production that's how. The way Ovechkin was at his peak (although he was 55-55, not 40-40).



Goals are rarer statistical event than assists (there is more of them and that's why in lower scoring environment goals are viewed even more valuable), doesn't mean they are more desirable just because.

It's irrelevant if there is more goals or more assists scored when comparing true game breaking talent (superstars), because they proved it with consistent production nobody gets most points for several years because of fluke secondary assists or easy pp goals. 'One year wonders' do, not superstars.

What's more important is overall amount of provided offense and balance.



Ovechkin was considered best forward because he is silver unicorn in today NHL, perceived change of his 'defensive' game under Trotz and that nobody separated himself point wise.

If Tarasenko would not get injured (he didn't play full season, played through it some games and his production suffered) he would compete with Ovechkin for best forward title last year.





Tarasenko isn't 'a little better'. He is main catalyst and driving force behind Blues offense.

Kuznetsov is playing under Ovechkin-Backstrom, doesn't get same matchups and gets great offensive zone starts.

For example if Kuz could separate himself as much as Kane did this year (from teammates, not league wise) then he would get benefit of doubt the same way Kane does because of great matchups, but he didn't (Backstrom is right with him offense wise and miles ahead in 'all-around' game).

We'll agree to disagree on the underlined part. As for Kuznetsov, I think you're selling him short. He leads the team in points despite:
1) Having Burakovsky and Williams as his wingers instead of Ovechkin and Oshie
2) Getting under 18 minutes of TOI on average (instead of 20+ like 8 and 19). He gets 17:40 per game.
3) Not getting prime PP minutes

He is facing easier competition than the top line but doesn't have the advantages I mentioned. Still, he has the 4th highest PPG in the league, behind the 3 monsters Kane/Benn/Seguin.

He is the best player on the team at creating scoring chances for his teammates, he has already passed Backstrom in that category. He's 23 years old, so many teams would rush to sign him at $7M if they had the opportunity.

 

[PucksInDeep]

40-40 is better all-around offensive production that's how. The way Ovechkin was at his peak (although he was 55-55, not 40-40).

Goals are rarer statistical event than assists (there is more of them and that's why in lower scoring environment goals are viewed even more valuable), doesn't mean they are more desirable just because.

It's irrelevant if there is more goals or more assists scored when comparing true game breaking talent (superstars), because they proved it with consistent production nobody gets most points for several years because of fluke secondary assists or easy pp goals. 'One year wonders' do, not superstars.

What's more important is overall amount of provided offense and balance.

Goals are absolutely more important than assists. Assists only matter because they lead to goals.

I also disagree about the overall offense and balance mattering more than goal scoring for superstars. I think a premium is placed on goal scoring, and rightfully so. Assists are only made possible by goal scorers. There are several superstar playmakers - Joe Thornton comes to mind as a current example - but even then they need someone else to actually score the goals. Not every Thornton pass is a tap-in that even the average fan could score.

 

[Raikkonen]

We'll agree to disagree on the underlined part. As for Kuznetsov, I think you're selling him short. He leads the team in points despite:

1) Having Burakovsky and Williams as his wingers instead of Ovechkin and Oshie
2) Getting under 18 minutes of TOI on average (instead of 20+ like 8 and 19). He gets 17:40 per game.
3) Not getting prime PP minutes

Backstrom has 10s less ES TOI on average so far.

On PP Backstrom has roughly 1 minute more, but I bet it's getting closer lately. Also, Nicky has 1 minute on PK.

There is no significant difference in ice time between them (for offense).

Also Williams is a beast.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Backstrom has 10s less ES TOI on average so far.

On PP Backstrom has roughly 1 minute more, but I bet it's getting closer lately. Also, Nicky has 1 minute on PK.

There is no significant difference in ice time between them (for offense).

Also Williams is a beast.

So call Oshie and Williams a wash. The dropoff from Ovechkin to Burt is slightly glaring....

 

[trick9]

Dennis Wideman is going to get the book thrown at him.

Anything less than 10 and i'd be surprised. On top of that you'll have terrible reputation in the future.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Dennis Wideman is going to get the book thrown at him.

Anything less than 10 and i'd be surprised. On top of that you'll have terrible reputation in the future.

Per the rule book, assaulting an official is minimum 20 games. He's an idiot.

 

[trick9]

Per the rule book, assaulting an official is minimum 20 games. He's an idiot.

They were talking about that on TSN. Apparently category 1 is 3+ games, category 2 is 10+ games, and category 3 in 20+ games. They thought that was worthy of 10+ games.

Category 1 is 'near' accidental. Category 2 is something between accidental and intentional. Reckless or avoidable or something. Category 3 is intent to injure an official.

 

[strungout]

The only thing that even remotely makes any sense in terms of why he would do that....was that he was knocked silly in the corner and couldn't figure out who he was running into.

But come on. Can't do that.

10+ games....easy call.

 

[RandyHolt]

Wides bangs his stick on the ice, apparently pissed from getting hit, and likely pissed there was no penalty.

Lysiak him = 20 games

Its really lame that since a penalty was not called, that it can change the discipline. How are the refs supposed to watch for that.

 

[txpd]

I see it a bit different. he took the hit. put his hand to his head and skated slowly toward the bench looking up the ice. not looking where he was going. he didn't see the linesman. he is surprised by the guy being there and dodged to his right while raising his hands to protect himself.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

I see it a bit different. he took the hit. put his hand to his head and skated slowly toward the bench looking up the ice. not looking where he was going. he didn't see the linesman. he is surprised by the guy being there and dodged to his right while raising his hands to protect himself.

How do you know he's not looking where he was going? He is facing the Flames' bench and unless he was looking at his toes, he is also facing the linesman. We need the reverse angle to see what he was exactly looking at.

 

[Hivemind]

Did Wideman have to go through with the concussion protocol afterwards? I have no idea how the trainer wouldn't immediately sequester him, given how blatantly dazed he was.

 

[4thTierSport]

I'd question how scrambled the brain was at that point. Seems to skate ok, but seems completely out of it otherwise. Did they check him out for a concussion?

Jesus, you would think concussions and head trauma wasn't having a huge impact on the NHL with all the mis-information flying around the main boards. Still blows my mind that people don't understand how fluid the effects of a concussion can be. How many times have we all seen someone pop right backup in to the play and wake up the next morning not being able to function.

 

[txpd]

How do you know he's not looking where he was going? He is facing the Flames' bench and unless he was looking at his toes, he is also facing the linesman. We need the reverse angle to see what he was exactly looking at.

I think I said that I saw it differently. I don't know anything. It looked to me like he was following the player that hit him as he skated up the ice and not looking straight ahead. As he approaches the linesman he jerks suddenly and moves slightly to his right. I see that as someone that was concentrating on his pain and who did it to him.

Logically speaking, why blame the linesman for a penalty not being called? I could careless about Wideman. He just didn't look like a guy trying to run the linesman.

 

[hb12xchamps]

From what I read, Wideman was out the next shift or shortly after so that's working against him. I don't buy that he was woozy enough not to see the ref. Maybe he thought the ref was a player on Nashville because of the white jerseys they were wearing that night? I don't know the whole thing looked pretty bad IMO.

 

[Corby78]

The people using the "woozy" card are doing so either because they like Wideman, like the flames, or are scared of the NHL getting a black eye over this. If that hit made him sooo woozy he couldn't see a person right in front of him, then we would see this stuff more often, but we don't. Once he got up, he skated calmly and controlled back to the bench.

On top of that, he never mentioned being woozy after the game. He talked about being in pain. You would think if that is what happened you would have been quick to mention it.

Whats sad is when guys like Melrose try to justify this stuff to save the NHL it only makes them look worse, and it has to be pissing the refs off. I hope he gets at least 20 games.

 

[Holtbyisms]

Yeah unless Wideman failed concussion protocol or something shut him down the rest of the season. That was a black eye to the sport. I turned on Mike & Mike at 6AM and it was like the first thing they talked about...and they NEVER talk hockey EVER.

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

I'd question how scrambled the brain was at that point. Seems to skate ok, but seems completely out of it otherwise. Did they check him out for a concussion?

Jesus, you would think concussions and head trauma wasn't having a huge impact on the NHL with all the mis-information flying around the main boards. Still blows my mind that people don't understand how fluid the effects of a concussion can be. How many times have we all seen someone pop right backup in to the play and wake up the next morning not being able to function.

With idiots like CC in charge, it's not surprising that misinformation is running rampant.

 

[sycamore]

Fascinating article from Sean Avery about life after the game:

http://www.theplayerstribune.com/sea...-after-hockey/

 

[Devil Dancer]

The people using the "woozy" card are doing so either because they like Wideman, like the flames, or are scared of the NHL getting a black eye over this.

Come on, not everyone that disagrees with you has an agenda.

He looked totally off balance and awkward to me coming off of the boards. Taking that and his history into consideration and I'd go fairly easy on him, depending on his interview, of course.

 

[RandyHolt]

I tend to think Wideman's temper was in play more than confusion from a hit / concussion. Pissed the linesman was in his way getting off the ice.

His trainer would have been well served to yank him off the ice for the rest of the period, at minimum. Doing so alone may have saved him a suspension.

Yep he had his bell rung obviously, duh. So we got him into the dressing room asap

 

[MEfreak]

There are so many times players skate cleanly to the bench, and then show signs of being out of sorts. The reverse is also true, looking dazed on the ice only to quickly recover by the time the bench is reached. You dont have to be concussed/woozy (taken to quiet room) to have your focus or reaction impacted. I think trying to prove he was or wasnt dazed is pointless. We're just left with the plausibility that he could have been.

Im with txpd, I think he lost focus or was focusing on something else. Snaps back just before running into the linesman. Tries to do a quick stop/slide by to the right, and hands come up in reaction as part of it. I dont see a push or crosscheck, and I think it looks like arm follow through simply because the linesman went down so easily (since he was caught completely off guard skating backwards) that there was no real reaction force on his arms. Wideman doesnt even look down at the guy, which I see as a sign of being unaware, but others will attribute to not giving a rip (I.e. mission accomplished).

I know some people think he was getting even with the non call...but why take out a linesman for (or just frustration with) the hit? He'd be gunning for a ref in that case, wouldnt he?

Has wideman ever shown a tendency towards dirty, deliberate retaliation like this before?

 

[Corby78]

There are so many times players skate cleanly to the bench, and then show signs of being out of sorts. The reverse is also true, looking dazed on the ice only to quickly recover by the time the bench is reached. You dont have to be concussed/woozy (taken to quiet room) to have your focus or reaction impacted. I think trying to prove he was or wasnt dazed is pointless. We're just left with the plausibility that he could have been.

Im with txpd, I think he lost focus or was focusing on something else. Snaps back just before running into the linesman. Tries to do a quick stop/slide by to the right, and hands come up in reaction as part of it. I dont see a push or crosscheck, and I think it looks like arm follow through simply because the linesman went down so easily (since he was caught completely off guard skating backwards) that there was no real reaction force on his arms. Wideman doesnt even look down at the guy, which I see as a sign of being unaware, but others will attribute to not giving a rip (I.e. mission accomplished).

I know some people think he was getting even with the non call...but why take out a linesman for (or just frustration with) the hit? He'd be gunning for a ref in that case, wouldnt he?

Has wideman ever shown a tendency towards dirty, deliberate retaliation like this before?

These guys are some of the greatest skaters on the planet. The refs are arguably even better then some of the NHL skaters. Both guys were coasting, not skating hard, just coasting. Even IF he was some how distracted, even IF the hands to the back was a reaction to brace, there is still more force delivered then needed. I've been bumped into skating to the bench, bumped refs, had guys run into the back of me. It takes a lot more then that to completely level somebody, especially someone who has excellent balance on skates. They guy made a mistake, he needs to own up to it and pay the consequences.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Kopitar - UFA, Forward
Doughty - RFA, Defencemen

Keith - 13 year, cap circumventing contract, outlier (probably best contract in NHL)




40-40 is better than 50-30 or 30-50. (in vacuum)


Ov is better because of greater on-ice impact and physicality\durability aspect



Kuznetsov will get contract 0.5 north of Holtby cap hit. As long as he doesn't separate himself from Backstrom.

There are 2 assists for every goal (more like 1.7 per 1, but you get my drift).

50/anything over 20 is better than 40/40. Only guys that generally don't agree with that are Crosby fans.