Chris at LHH had taken a look two weeks ago at their numbers. He rightfully cited that they dumped and chased more than a puck possession line should, but failed to mention that their role calls out for more dump and chase, and less possession entries. I thought the summary was off, but I am pretty sure he had their numbers broken down in the piece, or a link to a site that did.
2014 NYI Mock Offseason
- Thread starter blinkman360
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Chris at LHH had taken a look two weeks ago at their numbers. He rightfully cited that they dumped and chased more than a puck possession line should, but failed to mention that their role calls out for more dump and chase, and less possession entries. I thought the summary was off, but I am pretty sure he had their numbers broken down in the piece, or a link to a site that did.
4th line is terrible in part because Cappy is a colossal idiot in using them. He usually throws them out right after a PP and the other team responds by throwing out their top scoring line, and they inevitably get torched. Last year the 4th line Corsi wasn't as bad, this year the other teams caught on. If I get a chance, maybe I'll dig into some of last season's games to see if I can find player usage info.
I just remember flipping out at one point and I think it was a game against Tampa Bay and we had the 4th line going up against Stamkos and St. Louis after a PP expired because again, Cappy is an idiot.
I just remember flipping out at one point and I think it was a game against Tampa Bay and we had the 4th line going up against Stamkos and St. Louis after a PP expired because again, Cappy is an idiot.
I don't really consider 47% to be very good. I'd be fine with 50% from the fourth line, but a hit-first, puck-second mentality isn't going to get us there.
Sheva7
Work Hahd Play Smaht
- Oct 11, 2011
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Thanks for the follow up.
Interesting stuff. I wonder what they look like when compared to Gregory Campbell and Dan Paille/ or Shawn Thornton.
What sites do you use to get those stats? I have a couple hours to kill and wouldn't mind looking through some of the data. Thx again.
It wasn't just advanced stats. Cizikas played way too much like a winger, was caught up ice a lot. Martin lost a step or three - I don't know why. They were just bad.
I'm happy to keep Cizikas and Martin *if* Cizikas is a winger and Martin becomes a full-time enforcer.
I'm happy to keep Cizikas and Martin *if* Cizikas is a winger and Martin becomes a full-time enforcer.
The problem is Capuano. When he rolls 4 lines the team does better as a whole including more even distribution of scoring. When we had lost Tav, Vanek, and Kyle he was forced to even up the time on ice, and low and behold all lines started to contribute and we finished the year winning more than losing, which considering who was missing, should not have happened.
Regarding Martin and Cizikas (not your post Seafoam), chalk it up to Sophomore slumps, injuries (Martin), and maybe Cizikas is not an ideal center. I recall Martin and McD contributing more when when centered by Strome. The smart man waits to see how they do this year.
I'm interested in that. I went and looked up Chris McNally's posts and I couldn't find it.
Can you direct me to which one this is in?
http://www.sbnation.com/users/Chris McNally/blog
Sheva7
Work Hahd Play Smaht
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That's what I'm thinking. However, I don't buy the stuff about Cizikas not being an ideal centre...its still too early to tell whether he is or isn't when you consider all the things that went wrong last year.
Paille/Thornton/Campbell weren't good either this season. Better than our fourth, but still. http://www.extraskater.com/players/dashboard?season=2013&sort=cf_pct&team=bos
On the fly, I use the following mostly:
http://www.extraskater.com
For more advanced use, such as WOWY data:
http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/
Feel free to send me a private message if you have questions about how to use the sites.
Unless you can get some real value out of them from a sucker like ... oh I don't know ... the Toronto Maple Leafs?
I guess I just don't see the ceiling being very high on them.
If I had to choose one to keep between Cizikas, Martin, and Boulton; I'd probably go Martin.
I have no horse in the race on Casey and his eventual role, but I love what he brings and would hate to see him shipped in a trade as suggested in here. Idk, him next to Tavares for a few games could be interesting. I love him on the forecheck, I just wish he was a little bigger.
Something needs to be done about our faceoffs too.
If we need to get a faceoff specialist, he needs to play on our fourth line. That's the other big bone I have to pick with our fourth line.
Faceoff data for zeeker:
If we need to get a faceoff specialist, he needs to play on our fourth line. That's the other big bone I have to pick with our fourth line.
Faceoff data for zeeker:
Not that it matters, but the Isles are probably on Spezza's no trade list. http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-p...tml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Sheva7
Work Hahd Play Smaht
- Oct 11, 2011
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yea, I found pretty much the same thing.
Our boys weren't as good, but there isn't anything in the numbers to make me think that they'll never amount to what Campbell/Thornton/Paille currently are. Remember, our guys are kids w/ 1-2 yrs experience.
Their guys are established NHLers playing on one of the best teams in Hockey. Their numbers are supposed to be better.
Easiest thing to fix on this team is the PK. Easiest way to fix it is with the 4th line. Another thing to fox: situational faceoffs. Easiest way to fix it is with the 4th line.
We need to address 4th line center. Cizikas has to move to wing. This seems obvious.
- May 17, 2011
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I did a little reading and it seems like Cronin has has success in fixing the PK in the past. Let's hope he can bring that here.
doublechili
For all intensive purposes, your nuts
- Apr 11, 2006
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Just a reminder that based on Snow's UFA history, you can expect him to make offers to either top UFAs or guys you've barely heard of. He seems to like paying guys what they're worth, so if he's going to pay a lot of money to a guy he'll want him to be a top player (hence Boyle who can play #1 PP unit and was SJ's top minutes d-man last year).
Alternatively, he'll pay peanuts to a guy who hasn't really had a chance to show what he's got, or has fallen out of favor elsewhere.
Forget about the guys in the middle.
Alternatively, he'll pay peanuts to a guy who hasn't really had a chance to show what he's got, or has fallen out of favor elsewhere.
Forget about the guys in the middle.
Sheva7
Work Hahd Play Smaht
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I think saying 'he MUST move to wing' is a tad bit hasty IMO
May as well pick up Nate Thompson, Tyler Bozak & Olli Jokinen and put them next to Cizikas, Nelson and Strome.
This way when the team is really ready to win (and Thompson/Bozak/Jokinen are long gone) Nelson, Casey and Strome will have ZERO experience at playing centre. NONE whatsoever.
May as well pick up Nate Thompson, Tyler Bozak & Olli Jokinen and put them next to Cizikas, Nelson and Strome.
This way when the team is really ready to win (and Thompson/Bozak/Jokinen are long gone) Nelson, Casey and Strome will have ZERO experience at playing centre. NONE whatsoever.
We already did the easiest thing to fix the pk...
http://www.extraskater.com/players/goalies?page=2&min_gp=25&sit=4v5
Out of 59 goalies to play 21+ games, Nabokov was 57th in sh s%. Poulin was 54th. Halak was 7th.
If you take Halak's .910 s% and apply it to the 244 shots faced in the 68 games Poulin and Nabokov played, we would have given up 22 pp goals, rather than the 41 given up by Poulin and Nabokov. Our pk % would have been about 85%, or one of the top pk units in the league.
Granted, we probably would have given up more pk shots (there would have been more pk time since less goals were scored), but it still would have been a solid unit with good goaltending.
Another way to look at it, Nabokov actually faced less shots while shorthanded than most goaltenders...
http://www.extraskater.com/players/goalies?sit=4v5&min_gp=25&sort=sa_60
Poulin faced about an average number of shots (could be because of the high number of rebounds). In any case, with better goaltending the pk should be fine.
