Rumor: 2014/2015 Season Trade Rumours and Proposals VII - and a title to be named later

[Icelevel]

What I truly don't understand is that we have him a contract. In that contract it states that he can choose 15 team which he will NOT go to. That's his right. To choose 15 teams he will not go to.
HE signed that. Murray signed that.
Now Neil is saying he doesn't want to be traded to ANYONE. Is that not a breach if contract. Murray gave him that contract. Why is Chris Neil suddenly allowed to change the rules. Sorry bud. You signed the contract. Hand over the fifteen teams.

that's up to murray really. Sounds like BM hasn't asked Neil for the 15 teams. He was just asking neil out of respect what his preference would be. I get it. Not sure I like it, but...

 

[Burrowsaurus]

that's up to murray really. Sounds like BM hasn't asked Neil for the 15 teams. He was just asking neil out of respect what his preference would be. I get it. Not sure I like it, but...

But it's not a full no movement clause. Who's the gm in this organization?

 

[Sensinitis]

Murray. But he's too soft to trade Neil anyways (presumption). We'll see what happens.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Murray. But he's too soft to trade Neil anyways (presumption). We'll see what happens.

Soft doesn't win.

 

[Ouroboros]

Neil and Phillips not willing to move on pretty much guarantees that Condra and one of Wiercioch/Gryba will be moved.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

Soft doesn't win.

There's pros and cons to Murrays style I think. A good example for this was the Fisher trade. The con is that yes it can be viewed as soft and not treating his players more like commodities. I think the pro can be is that the NHL is a tight knit group and it helps build a reputation as being a good player friendly organization around the league. Players talk and if we're viewed as player friendly it most certainly helps.

Of course it would be nice to have an actual payroll big enough to utilize this pro we have.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

There's pros and cons to Murrays style I think. A good example for this was the Fisher trade. The con is that yes it can be viewed as soft and not treating his players more like commodities. I think the pro can be is that the NHL is a tight knit group and it helps build a reputation as being a good player friendly organization around the league. Players talk and if we're viewed as player friendly it most certainly helps.

Of course it would be nice to have an actual payroll big enough to utilize this pro we have.

I don't think we left very much on the table to send fisher to Nashville. If we did, then Murray made the wrong move.
4 stars (heatley chara spezza Alfie) have all either demanded to be traded, or got up and left). I mean, that didn't kill our rep. Do you really think stars around the league are going "wow look at great they treat Chris Neil ". Neil open ices people in practice. And fights teammates. His trade won't have a large effect on how we are ciewed

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Neil and Phillips not willing to move on pretty much guarantees that Condra and one of Wiercioch/Gryba will be moved.

Hmmm.....does it really make much of a difference? None of those guys will be part of the team a few years from now regardless. Neil & Phillips will be retired, and Wier & Gryba are just placeholders until better players come along.

 

[h2]

There's pros and cons to Murrays style I think. A good example for this was the Fisher trade. The con is that yes it can be viewed as soft and not treating his players more like commodities. I think the pro can be is that the NHL is a tight knit group and it helps build a reputation as being a good player friendly organization around the league. Players talk and if we're viewed as player friendly it most certainly helps.

Of course it would be nice to have an actual payroll big enough to utilize this pro we have.

Murray admitted that he turned down better offers in the Fisher deal so he could trade him to Nashville, not sure I'd use that as a good example. I really can't think of one visible benefit that has come from Murray's player loyalty so far. We got extra multiple years out of Chris Phillips and Chris Neil.. yay? Both of those guys should of been traded 4 years ago when we could actually get good value for them while we were rebuilding (I'd include Spezza in that list too). Not related, but more example of wasted assets were all those UFA's we never traded and had allowed to walk away for nothing, so much wasted assets. That's basically how I could summarize the Sens for the past 7 years.

Results should be what earns loyalty, and when the results clearly stop, the loyalty goes with it. That's the way championship teams do things.

It's a great accomplishment that Phillips is about to break the franchise GP record, but he really shouldn't have come close to it if we're being real here.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Okay so which others. Which vets did that keep far past their time?

And when did thy place such a high priority on a fourth line winger over their stars? Which is what my post was addressing. Ottawas inability to keep stars, while they bend over backwards for Chris Neil.

Clearly, Maltby, Draper just off the top of my head. 4th line grinders that the wings kept around late in their careers. Bertuzzi hasn't been anything special the past 3 years either.

 

[Micklebot]

I don't think we left very much on the table to send fisher to Nashville. If we did, then Murray made the wrong move.
4 stars (heatley chara spezza Alfie) have all either demanded to be traded, or got up and left). I mean, that didn't kill our rep. Do you really think stars around the league are going "wow look at great they treat Chris Neil ". Neil open ices people in practice. And fights teammates. His trade won't have a large effect on how we are ciewed

I tend to disagree. It's not about how Neil is treated, but how the org treats all its players. It's also not just about the stars. Fisher and York both talked up the Ottawa org to Legwand (so maybe it's not so helpful all the time). As a team that already has difficulty drawing UFA interest, we can use all the positive PR we can get.

I think being an org that treats it's players well goes a long way, I know in my own experience, working for an employer that treats me well makes me not want to jump ship.

The other point to make is that players on the team likely still feel they can reel off 10 wins and be right back in the playoff race. If at the deadline, they are no longer in denile, the Chris' may change their tunes. Asking them if they want to be shoped now just gives BMurr the potential of getting ahead of the game.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

If we finish bottom 6 this year then that first holds a ton of value. Regardless of wether we think we can improve by a good margin, that first alone could probably net Kane, with maybe a mid prospect heading there as well.

Puempel is a former first rounder that has done nothing but maintain, if not improve his stock since he was drafted. If that package were in terms of picks it would be similar to two firsts and two seconds. Wiercioch can be a good PP QB and will probably top out as a top 4 defender. Chiasson has been snake bitten this year but is a huge body, and can stick handle and shoot well. That package is compareable to a Kessel type package.

I wouldn't make the trade, just saying the value isn't THAT far off from what we would probably have to give up. I'd definitely not want to include the first, but Wier has zero value imo, and Puempel/Chiasson are exactly the kind of players we'd be giving up. Only the first is out of place there.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Murray admitted that he turned down better offers in the Fisher deal so he could trade him to Nashville, not sure I'd use that as a good example. I really can't think of one visible benefit that has come from Murray's player loyalty so far. We got extra multiple years out of Chris Phillips and Chris Neil.. yay? Both of those guys should of been traded 4 years ago when we could actually get good value for them while we were rebuilding (I'd include Spezza in that list too). Not related, but more example of wasted assets were all those UFA's we never traded and had allowed to walk away for nothing, so much wasted assets. That's basically how I could summarize the Sens for the past 7 years.

Results should be what earns loyalty, and when the results clearly stop, the loyalty goes with it. That's the way championship teams do things.

It's a great accomplishment that Phillips is about to break the franchise GP record, but he really shouldn't have come close to it if we're being real here.

It's not always about maximizing the product on the ice. Sometimes, just doing the right thing for the player involved is simply the right thing to do.

I'd rather be a fan of an organization (or part of a workplace) that wins a bit less, or makes a bit less profit, but treats its people like human beings instead of pieces of meat.

 

[Micklebot]

Murray admitted that he turned down better offers in the Fisher deal so he could trade him to Nashville, not sure I'd use that as a good example. I really can't think of one visible benefit that has come from Murray's player loyalty so far. We got extra multiple years out of Chris Phillips and Chris Neil.. yay? Both of those guys should of been traded 4 years ago when we could actually get good value for them while we were rebuilding (I'd include Spezza in that list too). Not related, but more example of wasted assets were all those UFA's we never traded and had allowed to walk away for nothing, so much wasted assets. That's basically how I could summarize the Sens for the past 7 years.

Results should be what earns loyalty, and when the results clearly stop, the loyalty goes with it. That's the way championship teams do things.

It's a great accomplishment that Phillips is about to break the franchise GP record, but he really shouldn't have come close to it if we're being real here.

Wrt Fisher, a better deal could have been a pick one or two spots higher, or it could have been a 5th rounder tossed in. I imagine had the difference been substantial, Murray would have taken the offer or used it as leverage to get some more out of Nashville. Who knows.

I also think it's unfair to use hindsight to prove that we should have moved players earlier. Phillip's play declined, and not trading him back when we moved Fisher is clearly an error now, but at the time, he still provided lots of value to the team. Had he kept his play up, or at least declined more gracefully, nobody would be complaining. Re-signing him last year instead of moving him at the deadline is probably the bigger mistake (not taking hindsight into account).

 

[h2]

It's not always about maximizing the product on the ice. Sometimes, just doing the right thing for the player involved is simply the right thing to do.

I'd rather be a fan of an organization (or part of a workplace) that wins a bit less, or makes a bit less profit, but treats its people like human beings instead of pieces of meat.

I don't disagree with your post, but I don't think trading Chris Phillips 4 years ago is an example of treating humans like a piece of meat.

 

[h2]

Wrt Fisher, a better deal could have been a pick one or two spots higher, or it could have been a 5th rounder tossed in. I imagine had the difference been substantial, Murray would have taken the offer or used it as leverage to get some more out of Nashville. Who knows.

I also think it's unfair to use hindsight to prove that we should have moved players earlier. Phillip's play declined, and not trading him back when we moved Fisher is clearly an error now, but at the time, he still provided lots of value to the team. Had he kept his play up, or at least declined more gracefully, nobody would be complaining. Re-signing him last year instead of moving him at the deadline is probably the bigger mistake (not taking hindsight into account).

About Fisher, nobody knows what the difference was, just Murray's own words that better offers were turned down. If it was an extra 5th or a spot or two higher then I agree with trading him to Nashville, otherwise it's not a wise move.

I can also get behind your take on the Phillips situation, at the very least I don't understand how a two year extension was given instead of a one year deal. Even at the time that contract was a little too long.

 

[Hammertyme]

Hmmm.....does it really make much of a difference? None of those guys will be part of the team a few years from now regardless. Neil & Phillips will be retired, and Wier & Gryba are just placeholders until better players come along.

Being that Wiercioch has been unmoveable, then it will be Gryba going and Wiercioch stepping in to 3rd pairing shutdown role?

 

[Super Cake]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/34424/rumblings-senators-trading-chris-neil-is-very-possible

 

[Sensinitis]

Neil to NSH for a 2nd.

 

[Boud]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/34424/rumblings-senators-trading-chris-neil-is-very-possible

Beat me to it! He's going to be traded I'm pretty sure

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Being that Wiercioch has been unmoveable, then it will be Gryba going and Wiercioch stepping in to 3rd pairing shutdown role?

Either way. Not much difference between the two (value wise, not playstyle wise). Both are bottom pairing guys. Easily replaceable.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

He certainly could be valuable to a few teams looking to have a tough guy

I doubt we'd get much of anything in return, probably a 3rd

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Clearly, Maltby, Draper just off the top of my head. 4th line grinders that the wings kept around late in their careers. Bertuzzi hasn't been anything special the past 3 years either.

Which is why bertuzzi is no longer a red wing. They cut him loose. Maltby and draper were good fourth liners that played massive roles in cup wins and finals. And they were still serviceable.

And even so. Zetterberg datsyuk were the priorities there. Not maltby and draper.

We have let stars go. In pretty embarrassing fashion. Yet Chris Neil is dotted over. We essentially have the guy a full no movement clause lol.

 

[Sens Mile]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/34424/rumblings-senators-trading-chris-neil-is-very-possible

Good to hear. He has had a terrific career with the Senators and deserves to be honored by the organization (Like a plaque in a designated area in the CTC). Rather see him go for a Stanley Cup before he retires

We need extra assets for our organization that can be included with the future- our prospect base could really improve and we only have six draft picks this year. For a team that is so heavily reliant on scouting, move the pieces which wont be used longterm.

We have
Ottawa's 1st
Ottawa's 2nd
Dallas 2nd
Ottawa's 4th
Ottawa's 5th
Ottawa's 7th

 

[Ice-Tray]

Yes. I most definitely agree.

The fact he doesn't want a chance to win is troubling. Seems content to collect Sens paycheques.

When did this mercenary attitude suddenly become more valuable than loyalty to an organization?

Bourque and Alfie both tarnished their reps a little wanting to chase a cup. Riding on another team's coattails for a championship win is NOT something to be held in high regard, it is what it is, nothing more.