Rumor: 2014/2015 Season Trade Rumours and Proposals VII - and a title to be named later

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PeterSidorkiewicz

HFWF Tourney Undisputed Champion
Apr 30, 2004
32,442
9,701
Lansing, MI
You've got it twisted around. The Pats built themselves into winners because they had this attitude. They didn't wait to win and then become business-like.

Difference of opinion I guess. They could get away with a lot more after they started to win. You didn't hear much about the cuts or refusing to hand out money until after they were established and players were willing to play for them because it was known you went there to win.

Oh and of course cheating doesn't hurt either!
 

Flip_4

Registered User
Mar 22, 2006
254
19
Ottawa
So much bitterness here. Often I am disgusted by some of the attitudes shown here by some fans, and this is yet another example, especially given that it is all based on speculation and rumour.

Neither Neiler nor Phillips control if Murray trades them or not, they do have every right to answer honestly though when asked if they would like to be moved. Wanting to stay with the only team you have played for until the end, is a much stronger and more courageous stance to take, then to jump ship to the best team possible in hopes of winning a championship with a team you have nothing to do with. The fact that some of you can see that is beyond sad, for you. Winning is not actually the first and only priority for people, and nor should it be.

They have played here long enough to be afforded that respect, by our GM, who seems to value the interpersonal relationships that are formed between people.

The excitement shown here by people drooling over trading legacy players for 3rd round picks is astonishing, though it seems to fit with the increased role that video games play in people's lives, and with current entitled generation. Big on opinions, small on wisdom.

So many so quick to put their own entertainment in front of the lives and livelihoods of others, willing to toss away good people when they feel they are no longer good enough to satisfy whatever standards they have set.

The "hockey is a business" crowd that is so ready to adopt this mantra, the same ideals that lead banks and financial institutions to screw millions of people without and sense of moral obligation. Hockey is a big family, and a community, and yet some posters here demand that it become something colder, less loyal, less respectful. When did these become admirable traits?

Personally I despise people who force others to operate under those conditions, and I feel sorry for those who celebrate them as though they are something to aspire to.

There's my rant of the day, flame away...

I was saying this exact same thing - although not quite as well - the other day to my dad and he completely agrees. The "respect" and "loyalty" part has completely disappeared with some fans.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels this way.
 

PoutineSp00nZ

Electricity is really just organized lightning.
Jul 21, 2009
20,076
5,676
Ottawa
Those poor 35 year old millionaires might have to play for a Stanley Cup instead of going on vacation for a few months. So disrespectful.

It doesn't matter, they're still people. They have families. Just because you think that going for a stanley cup is better for them doesn't mean that they do.
 

Samsens

Registered User
Jan 20, 2015
35
0
Fredericton, NB
Guys. Was looking at the Oilers trade page to see what they think they would get for Hall or Eberle, and Karlsson's name is brought up a lot. Guys are they that dumb? Guysssss.
 

Boud

Registered User
Dec 27, 2011
13,569
6,995
This isn't trading Pokemon cards. These are people. Business or not, gotta treat them with respect. There is more to it than just business.

I agree, especially when you're talking about players that have been here their whole life. Every team does it. Look at what Detroit did with Cleary, they resigned him even if they didn't really want to because they had an agreement. Ottawa is not the only organization to have done that, pretty much every organization does that with their players it's just that it doesn't make the news. When a player has been part of a team for so long, of the community and fan favorites they should be recognized and management of teams around the league feel the same way. If Philips or Neil wants to be moved then it's fine, if they don't want to it's their choice. Philips and Neil are not your typical bottom pairing defence and 4rth liner. It's like saying Modano was a 3rd/4rth liner towards the end of his career, he was a 3rd/4rth liner but there was a lot more to it. In his last year in Dallas Modano refused to be traded and at the end of his contract the Stars didn't want to sign him and he went to Detroit. The point is that they didn't trade him because he didn't want to be traded and the Stars felt like they owed him that they should atleast let him finish his contract in Dallas. It's not like they we're in a playoff position either, they we're bottom of the league.Modano is not the same quality of a player than a Neil of Philips but their value to the organization is very similar.
 

Qward

Because! That's why!
Jul 23, 2010
18,939
5,902
Behind you, look out
Solid post :)

My stance has always been that the Senators should allow both players to play out their contracts if thats what they want. However, if either guy wants to be moved, the team should do so. If i were Neil or Phillips, I'd be rather tempted to go to a team that has a legit shot at a cup. Both players have always upped their game when it really matters.

Who needs to get younger/faster/better when we can just keep re-signing the vets and let them play out their contracts. Hope you enjoy missing the playoffs for next forseable future.

Neil can veto 15 teams. That is half the league. We aren't talking about shipping him to Edmonton, we would be trading him to a contender. Phillips could have been traded last year to a playoff team, instead he wanted to stay here and now he is getting benched half the time. Why do these guys want to stay? Is it because they believe we can rebound and become champions in the next two seasons? No. They have businesses and families here. That is where their priorities are. I would rather a trade guys that are comfy and fear change for some young kids that want to fight for a shot to make the show and be a super star.
 

Benjamin

Differently Financed
Jun 14, 2010
31,118
438
yes
It doesn't matter, they're still people. They have families. Just because you think that going for a stanley cup is better for them doesn't mean that they do.
I didn't say it was better. I just don't see how its disrespectful. Either way they are in an awesome situation.

[mod]
 
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PoutineSp00nZ

Electricity is really just organized lightning.
Jul 21, 2009
20,076
5,676
Ottawa
Who needs to get younger/faster/better when we can just keep re-signing the vets and let them play out their contracts. Hope you enjoy missing the playoffs for next forseable future.

Neil can veto 15 teams. That is half the league. We aren't talking about shipping him to Edmonton, we would be trading him to a contender. Phillips could have been traded last year to a playoff team, instead he wanted to stay here and now he is getting benched half the time. Why do these guys want to stay? Is it because they believe we can rebound and become champions in the next two seasons? No. They have businesses and families here. That is where their priorities are. I would rather a trade guys that are comfy and fear change for some young kids that want to fight for a shot to make the show and be a super star.

If Neil and Phillips stay they're going to be extra players that rotate in and out of the lineup. There are always injuries, and guys like lazar and hoffman making the team this year should be proof that bottom of the roster vets aren't preventing anyone from making the jump if they deserve it.

I think there are advantages to having vets, even in limited rolls, in that lockeroom. And I think that loyalty should be paid back with the same.
 

Boud

Registered User
Dec 27, 2011
13,569
6,995
If Lazar is on this roster what spots are Neil and Phillips taking from people?

Who said they we're playing? Neil definitely can play, if not he may be scratched some games but he knows that if he stays here he may not play every game.
Philips will likely be 7th defensemen but if they want to stay and have that role, they can.
 

Do Make Say Think

& Yet & Yet
Jun 26, 2007
51,166
9,908
Without Phillips we likely have to play Weircioch on a regular basis

I hope we keep Phillips with all of my heart
 

Qward

Because! That's why!
Jul 23, 2010
18,939
5,902
Behind you, look out
If Neil and Phillips stay they're going to be extra players that rotate in and out of the lineup. There are always injuries, and guys like lazar and hoffman making the team this year should be proof that bottom of the roster vets aren't preventing anyone from making the jump if they deserve it.

I think there are advantages to having vets, even in limited rolls, in that lockeroom. And I think that loyalty should be paid back with the same.

There presence in the locker room is what you are referring to? Like how we all noticed how pissed Phillips was at not being named "C" this year? Or how Neil has started fights with several team mates?

When players sit, especially vets, they get pissy. Rookies understand it is part of paying their due. Vets feel they have paid their dues and you see their reaction in the press scrums.
"Rookie X, how do you feel about being benched?" "I understand why the coach did it, I have to work on my game and I will cheer the boys on."
"Vet Y, how do you feel about being benched?" "It sucks you know? You want to be out there playing."
 

PoutineSp00nZ

Electricity is really just organized lightning.
Jul 21, 2009
20,076
5,676
Ottawa
There presence in the locker room is what you are referring to? Like how we all noticed how pissed Phillips was at not being named "C" this year? Or how Neil has started fights with several team mates?

When players sit, especially vets, they get pissy. Rookies understand it is part of paying their due. Vets feel they have paid their dues and you see their reaction in the press scrums.
"Rookie X, how do you feel about being benched?" "I understand why the coach did it, I have to work on my game and I will cheer the boys on."
"Vet Y, how do you feel about being benched?" "It sucks you know? You want to be out there playing."

It can also be argued that the vets are just more honest about how they feel. We don't know who is snarky and who isn't in the locker room. Ask Lazar how he feels about Phillips being on the team.

Also im pretty sure if you look at most of the guys Neil has gotten into fights with, its been dudes who have bailed on the team or had serious, well documented off ice issues.
 

God Says No

Registered User
Mar 16, 2012
8,530
1,900
Ultimately it boils down to winning. If you want to win, you'll have to make some tough decisions. I.e. cutting some under performing players. Whether it be vets or rookies, it doesn't matter. It's the nature of the business. As someone already pointed out the New England Patriots. They are ruthless. Do you think they cared that Lawyer Milloy cried when he was cut? Do you think will care when the new kid that just intercepted Wilson in the Superbowl will get cut in camp next year. You go from hero to goat in sports very quickly. It is a heartless business.

I don't see how shopping Neil or Phillips is disrespectful. Actually the way BM has gone about it so far has been more than respectful.
 

aragorn

Do The Right Thing
Aug 8, 2004
28,569
9,083
The idea that you can dehumanize people due to their salaries should cause you some concern. Usually it is a reflection of one's own personal dissatisfaction projected onto those we deem more fortunate.

Either way it isn't an attractive trait.

Good post earlier. Add to this that both have young families & if traded would be away from their wife & kids & for a number of months. You have to ask how the wife feels having to do everything around the house for the rest of winter while her husband is in another city playing hockey unable to help with anything. While we think it's not that big a deal to move to another team it disrupts a great deal with hockey families to be traded to another city. I guess Lazar would assume all of Phillip's responsibility at home since he would still be living in Phillip's basement or does it mean if Phillips gets traded Lazar gets kicked out? :laugh:

I'd be surprised if either one of Neil or Phillips get traded this yr although if Neil goes anywhere I could see him going to Nashville to play with his buddy Fisher. My guess is that one of Neil or Legwand will get traded to Nashville at the deadline & the other is traded to Nashville this summer or at next yr's deadline while Phillips retires a Sen after next season.

I wouldn't be surprised though to see BM go after one of Hall or Kane between now & next season maybe at the draft. If Ottawa is not going to be drafting in the top 10 then why not add their 1st in a deal that will bring back a very good young top 6 forward who can play right now. I'd rather have one of Kane or Hall then whoever they get with the 11th or 12th pick since they can help right now & not three yrs from now.
 
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