Rumor: 2014/2015 Season Trade Rumours and Proposals IX - Three Weeks Til Tradedown

[Micklebot]

Schneider is a converted centre I believe. Da Costa and Matthias are also playing wing, many centres to go around

Greening was a converted center but I'd never play him there in the NHL. Also, Dacosta isn't a center you play on the 4th line in and energy/shutdown role, which is what I'd want from an extra. Matthias I honestly haven't watched enough to comment on.

I do like Grant though, he's similar to Condra except a center, but whatever.

 

[Micklebot]

I wouldn't be too sure about that. I recognize that's setting a really high bar, but this kid is pretty special from what I've seen. I was much more impressed with him at the WJC than any of the other hyped number ones recently (Hall, Tavares, etc.).

I really didn't see it at the WJC. I expected more tbh. He'll be good, butI'm expecting somewhere between P.Kane and Tavares.

 

[dumbdick]

I really didn't see it at the WJC. I expected more tbh. He'll be good, butI'm expecting somewhere between P.Kane and Tavares.

His shot needs to improve a bit, but the passing and vision are about as good as I've seen at that tourney. His work in "Gretzky's Office" and ability to hit passes in the blue paint was really innovative and impressive. Good two way play too.

 

[FireMelnyk]

Buffalo is in the US meaning: closer to nice places, less taxes and less exposure

Almost any team in the US is going to be more desirable than Canada

Buffalo is also not playing the "we'll spend once the team is good" which must be nice, instead it's "we'll spend to help the team get good"

Hopefully the fans will do the same.

I'm not saying it's horrible and it's why we're no good

But it is what ownership has stated: they will spend once the team is ready to contend

That's good advice. STH should take the same approach and buy tickets once the team is ready to contend.

 

[WhiteLight*]

Time to get creative. Michalek, Greening, Legwand, Neil, Phillips, Wiercioch, Smith, hell maybe even MacArthur, can all be moved. Salary may need to be retained on some, but it can and should happen.

Murray seems very reluctant to keep salary. Why? Let's be honest, it's not like he'll be able to sign big name UFAs

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Well it's clear that the fanbase isn't feeling very enthused by the Senators these days

 

[Qward]

Well it's clear that the fanbase isn't feeling very enthused by the Senators these days

I am enthused about the draft.
About Murray's successor.

 

[BonkTastic]

Murray seems very reluctant to keep salary. Why?

A certain agitator - for privacy's sake, let's call him "Eugene M.".


... No, that's too obvious. Let's say, "E. Melnyk"...

 

[WhiteLight*]

A certain agitator - for privacy's sake, let's call him "Eugene M.".


... No, that's too obvious. Let's say, "E. Melnyk"...

ok. But. Doesn't he just care about the team's salary? Why does he care if individual salaries are retained? Puzzling

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I am enthused about the draft.
About Murray's successor.

Sure but that doesn't really translate into people talking about the team, their performance and getting people to pay to watch them

 

[BonkTastic]

ok. But. Doesn't he just care about the team's salary? Why does he care if individual salaries are retained? Puzzling

On a team with a limited budget, what message doe sit send to the fans that they're not willing to spend (yet?) to the cap, but they're happy being a cap-floor team while playing other players NOT to play for them? This team has spent the past 2 years drilling it into the fan's psyche that we are a "spend smart" team out of necessity. Retaining salary generally isn't a "spend smart" strategy unless the coffers are overflowing.

Also: if you eat salary, it's over the term of the entire contract, you can't just offer to pick up salary for one year or something. If we retain salary on anyone but Condra or Methot, then we're eating that for multiple years, which might affect our ability to make moves in the future... especially if we remain in the 25-30 range in NHL spending.

Also part 2: this is just my personal opinion, but I imagine Melnyk doesn't want to eat salary out of principle. We traded a not-insignificant draft pick so that Edmonton would pick up half a season's worth of salary on Hemsky. That should tell you which side of the ledger we are on in the context of retaining salary.

 

[MiscBrah]

Buffalo could easily end up being Edmonton. They also have a chance to be a contender and imo that chance is far better then the Sens(As of right now I don't see the Sens ever becoming more then a middle of the pack mediocre team.).

Just because the Sens are better then Buffalo right now doesn't mean that will remain better in the future.

Buffalo is going all in. Sens are folding as soon as anyone tries to raise.



Nope.

Even the very wise cannot see all ends.

How can you saw the Sens will NEVER be more than middle of the pack, mediocre team. You have no idea. That isn't even that bold of a prediction. The majority of teams in the league are middle of the pack teams.

It will be minimum 2-3 years before Buffalo even sniffs the playoffs and 5 years until they are contending (minimum). That's if every single thing goes according to the plan. They are far more likely become a middle of the pack team just like 60% of the NHL.

I guess your argument is that the only way to be good in the NHL is to take the 'high risk' road of tanking for 2-3+ seasons. Rather than try to take the 'low risk' option and build a good team and try to stay competitive.

 

[WhiteLight*]

On a team with a limited budget, what message doe sit send to the fans that they're not willing to spend (yet?) to the cap, but they're happy being a cap-floor team while playing other players NOT to play for them? This team has spent the past 2 years drilling it into the fan's psyche that we are a "spend smart" team out of necessity. Retaining salary generally isn't a "spend smart" strategy unless the coffers are overflowing.

Well it's obvious they've made some mistake on the ''spending smart'' front. Eating salary would require Melnyk/Murray to admit it and own up to their mistakes. Both being proud and stubborn, I don't think it'll happen and we'll be stuck with bad players.

Also: if you eat salary, it's over the term of the entire contract, you can't just offer to pick up salary for one year or something. If we retain salary on anyone but Condra or Methot, then we're eating that for multiple years, which might affect our ability to make moves in the future... especially if we remain in the 25-30 range in NHL spending.

Agreed. But. I think keeping the contracts restricts moves even further. Eating salary but moving the contract would offer more flexibility imo.

Also part 2: this is just my personal opinion, but I imagine Melnyk doesn't want to eat salary out of principle.

Yet he's OK with Greening in the minors? I don't get Mr Melnyk. His principles are out of whack imo

 

[BK201]

I still don't understand why NOW buffalo will be so much better.

They were at the bottom of the league before this trade. I don't see them as more than a middle of the pact team with McDavid for a while.

Shoulder problems could be a big deal for a power forward.

 

[Icelevel]

I still don't understand why NOW buffalo will be so much better.

They were at the bottom of the league before this trade. I don't see them as more than a middle of the pact team with McDavid for a while.

Shoulder problems could be a big deal for a power forward.

You can't just flick a switch. At least TM is trying his best. They are focusing on improving their development of young players. Exactly what they should be doing while acquiring them.

BM has been saying he is looking for a top 6 forward for about 6 years? now.

 

[bigfatfist]

I still don't understand why NOW buffalo will be so much better.

They were at the bottom of the league before this trade. I don't see them as more than a middle of the pact team with McDavid for a while.

Shoulder problems could be a big deal for a power forward.

Recoveries from a torn labreum are pretty straight forward, no? Seems like lots of nba guys come back from that no problem.

 

[BonkTastic]

Well it's obvious they've made some mistake on the ''spending smart'' front. Eating salary would require Melnyk/Murray to admit it and own up to their mistakes. Both being proud and stubborn, I don't think it'll happen and we'll be stuck with bad players.

Can't disagree with this at all. I think Murray has been hamstrung with the budget and been forced into taking a few chances on some guys he might normally not have, but other than that, you're pretty spot on. Maybe not "stuck" with some players, but I get what you're saying.

Agreed. But. I think keeping the contracts restricts moves even further. Eating salary but moving the contract would offer more flexibility imo.

I think MOST of our contracts are tradeable if we don't want them... but I also think the org would rather ship guys out for a far lesser return and have no financial obligations attached to the deal as a result, than get a better return by eating salary.

Anonymous GM: "We'll give you a 2nd and 4th round pick for Legwand if you eat half his salary this year and next"
Murray: "Hmm... how about just the 4th, and you take his full salary?"

That sort of thing...

Yet he's OK with Greening in the minors? I don't get Mr Melnyk. His principles are out of whack imo

I don't get him either. The man has been a walking contradiction for the past like... 6 years. It's like having a bipolar father, and your curfew changes on a week-to-week basis along with his mood. One week the sky is the limit, the next week it's one failed casino bid away from catastrophe.

 

[Benjamin]

Even the very wise cannot see all ends.

How can you saw the Sens will NEVER be more than middle of the pack, mediocre team. You have no idea. That isn't even that bold of a prediction. The majority of teams in the league are middle of the pack teams.

It will be minimum 2-3 years before Buffalo even sniffs the playoffs and 5 years until they are contending (minimum). That's if every single thing goes according to the plan. They are far more likely become a middle of the pack team just like 60% of the NHL.

I guess your argument is that the only way to be good in the NHL is to take the 'high risk' road of tanking for 2-3+ seasons. Rather than try to take the 'low risk' option and build a good team and try to stay competitive.

How can you say it will be a minimum of 2-3 years before Buffalo even sniffs the playoffs and 5 years until they are contending?

You guessed wrong.

 

[BonkTastic]

How can you say it will be a minimum of 2-3 years before Buffalo even sniffs the playoffs and 5 years until they are contending?

You guessed wrong.

Counterargument: How can you not?

Personal opinions. Whatever. Like you said, it's just a guess. To say he "guessed wrong" is kind of funny seeing as how we don't have the answer yet.


I tend to side with the 2-3 year projection myself: thin roster + bad coach + no goalie + shallow blueline + kids usually taking a year or two to get their sea legs under them + constanytly changing roster... I can absolutely see a 2-3 year timeline being a minimum-bet sort of deal as far as playoffs are concerned.

Even if they finish dead last, there's an 80% chance they don't get McDavid. Eichel is a fantastic consolation prize, but he's not even close to being as NHL ready as McDavid might be... and even then, I can see McDavid having the same struggles that Stamkos did in his first year and a half in the NHL. Hasn't Eichel hinted that he could stay in NCAA for an extra year? Nothing is for sure.

There are some good pieces coming to Buffalo, but I think it's going to take longer than a year for that all to gel.

 

[ChocolateLeclaire]

Recoveries from a torn labreum are pretty straight forward, no? Seems like lots of nba guys come back from that no problem.

Dany Heatley's decline began with a shoulder injury just like Kane's. Not saying they're the exact same but injuries take time to recover from.

Kane will not have a good year next year as he recovers from the surgery and all the training and camp he'll miss.

And Buffalo fans will be all over him like a vulture because of his past history.

 

[GreatStateofHockey]

You can't just flick a switch. At least TM is trying his best. They are focusing on improving their development of young players. Exactly what they should be doing while acquiring them.

BM has been saying he is looking for a top 6 forward for about 6 years? now.

Murray has brought in 3 top 6'ers in recent years, two by trade.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Dany Heatley's decline began with a shoulder injury just like Kane's. Not saying they're the exact same but injuries take time to recover from.

Kane will not have a good year next year as he recovers from the surgery and all the training and camp he'll miss.

And Buffalo fans will be all over him like a vulture because of his past history.

Oh that's a good point and worrying for Buffalo

Although the age difference might make it easier for Kane to get back to form

 

[BK201]

Recoveries from a torn labreum are pretty straight forward, no? Seems like lots of nba guys come back from that no problem.

I just keep thinking of Regin xD

 

[BK201]

You can't just flick a switch. At least TM is trying his best. They are focusing on improving their development of young players. Exactly what they should be doing while acquiring them.

BM has been saying he is looking for a top 6 forward for about 6 years? now.

And we traded for one and lost 2, 3 if you include 9MM.

 

[MiscBrah]

MacArthur - Turris - Ryan
Hoffman - Zibanejad - Stone
Prince - Soderberg - Da Costa
Matthias - Pageau - Condra
McClement

Methot - Karlsson
Sekera - Ceci
Cowen - Wideman
Borowiecki

Lehner - Enroth

I don't like when people keep projecting Turris as the #1 Centre. For our team to be successful he has to be the elite #2 that we all know he is. If the Sens want to take the next step they need Zibby to pass turris on the depth chart or find another solution.

How can you say it will be a minimum of 2-3 years before Buffalo even sniffs the playoffs and 5 years until they are contending?

You guessed wrong.

Why not address the rest of the post rather than just pick one sentence you don't like?

Counterargument: How can you not?

Personal opinions. Whatever. Like you said, it's just a guess. To say he "guessed wrong" is kind of funny seeing as how we don't have the answer yet.


I tend to side with the 2-3 year projection myself: thin roster + bad coach + no goalie + shallow blueline + kids usually taking a year or two to get their sea legs under them + constanytly changing roster... I can absolutely see a 2-3 year timeline being a minimum-bet sort of deal as far as playoffs are concerned.

Even if they finish dead last, there's an 80% chance they don't get McDavid. Eichel is a fantastic consolation prize, but he's not even close to being as NHL ready as McDavid might be... and even then, I can see McDavid having the same struggles that Stamkos did in his first year and a half in the NHL. Hasn't Eichel hinted that he could stay in NCAA for an extra year? Nothing is for sure.

There are some good pieces coming to Buffalo, but I think it's going to take longer than a year for that all to gel.

This.

Buffalo isn't like MTL who had a team basically in place and then had a really bad year then catapulted back to the top of the standings. Buffalo has stripped their entire team down to the bones and are going to slowly build it back up.

I like looking at the goal differential as a measuring stick because it shows how far they really need to come in order to be competitive.

Buffalo is at -88 right now. If you want to make a wildcard spot you need to be around E through +15. If you want to be a top team in the league you need to have a goal differential of +30 through +50 or even higher.

Boston had the best goal differential last season with +84, but that seems like a bit of an outlier.

Anyways, that just kind of gives you an idea of the ground that Buffalo has to make up if they want to be competitive. 2-3 years seems fair to me to make the playoffs.

Their young guys develop more next year, they see who is improving and who is busting. Then the year after that they try use their surplus of young players to fill the needs of their team and make a push for the playoffs. Then after a couple of years of getting bounced in the 1st/2nd round their players learn how to elevate in the playoffs and then make a push for the finals.

Seems pretty reasonable to me.