Speculation: 2014-2015 Rumor Thread

[Psuhockey]

You do that. I'll gladly take McDavid or Eichel.

Well let's look at a scenario from 1 to 3. The two worst teams are Edmonton and Carolina. The Fkyers traded Peter Forsberg, Ron Hextall, Chris Simon, Mike Ricci, Kerry Huffman, Steve Duchesne, and 2 first round picks. Trades of that size done happen like that anymore. Chris Pronger got in his trade to Anaheim 2 1st rd picks and a top 10 drafted young players. I would say a trade down to 3 would be somewhere closer to the Chris Pronger trade today.

So from Edmonton: 3rd overall (Hanifin), Leon Draisaitl, Darnell Nurse, and another 1st rd pick.

From Carolina: Hanifin, Haydn Fleury, Elias Lindholm, another 1st rd pick.

Those are pretty conservative trade returns. I would think you could get more, like a roster player or another pick, but just on that basic value that's a great return especially for how the current Flyers are constructed. A top 4 defense prospect that is NHL ready in either Nurse or Fleury, and top notch 2nd line center prospect in Draisaitl or Lindholm that is near NHL ready, and Hanifin who has been described as better than Seth Jones at similar ages. Plus you get in all likelihood another top 10 pick next year.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Well let's look at a scenario from 1 to 3. The two worst teams are Edmonton and Carolina. The Fkyers traded Peter Forsberg, Ron Hextall, Chris Simon, Mike Ricci, Kerry Huffman, Steve Duchesne, and 2 first round picks. Trades of that size done happen like that anymore. Chris Pronger got in his trade to Anaheim 2 1st rd picks and a top 10 drafted young players. I would say a trade down to 3 would be somewhere closer to the Chris Pronger trade today.

So from Edmonton: 3rd overall (Hanifin), Leon Draisaitl, Darnell Nurse, and another 1st rd pick.

From Carolina: Hanifin, Haydn Fleury, Elias Lindholm, another 1st rd pick.

Those are pretty conservative trade returns. I would think you could get more, like a roster player or another pick, but just on that basic value that's a great return especially for how the current Flyers are constructed. A top 4 defense prospect that is NHL ready in either Nurse or Fleury, and top notch 2nd line center prospect in Draisaitl or Lindholm that is near NHL ready, and Hanifin who has been described as better than Seth Jones at similar ages. Plus you get in all likelihood another top 10 pick next year.

Wouldn't do it and I don't think Hanifin is as good as he was hyped to be. Not to mention the volatility of defensemen.

You can't go wrong getting the best player in a deal (or in this case, keeping said player).

Peter Forsberg's aren't in every deal. The scouting is much better now.

 

[Psuhockey]

Wouldn't do it and I don't think Hanifin is as good as he was hyped to be. Not to mention the volatility of defensemen.

I hear yah but LA has one 2 cups with a superstar on defense and depth down the middle. The centers are very good but not superstar level like Crosby and Malkin. The modern game is all about defense. You are absolutely taking a chance but out of a top prospect group of Hanifin, Sanheim, Morin, or Fleury/Nurse, I think the Flyers could put together an excellent top pair. There is no guarantee for defense prospects that why it is best to play the odds and acquire as many as you can get.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

I wouldn't personally but I think other teams would in a heartbeat. I doubt any of the top 2 pick teams would except a trade since a #1 scoring center is one of the hardest things to find.

I wouldn't because as crazy as it sounds, I am more intrigued by Hanifin and even Werenski than those two centers. I want the Flyers to win a Stanley Cup and not just one but multiple ones. If you look at the last 20 Stanley Cup champions, 16 had hall of fame level defenseman. There have been 5 teams to repeat as champions in the last 20 and 4 of the 5 drafted their hall of fame level defender (Colorado is the only repeater who didn't have a HOF level defender their 1st cup and traded for two their 2nd cup).

In reverse I would do the trade if I had the 1 of the top 2 picks to drop down to 3 maybe 4 depending on how Werenski continues to look. The ransom in picks and prospects would be huge much like the Eric Lindros trade. Eric Lindros's draft in 1991 is the perfect example of my thinking: Eric Lindros 1st overall (no cups), Scott Niedermayer 3rd (4 cups, 3 with the team that drafted him). The 2008 draft is another great example as Stamkos 1st overall, no cups, and Doughty 2 overall with 2 cups so far. Stamkos's Tampa Bay team has only been in the playoffs 2 times since he has been drafted.

I get what you're saying. At the same time, Tampa did end up drafting Victor Hedman the following year, who himself is a number one defenseman in his own right. It's about balance. It also helps that in Doughty's case, Los Angeles has one of the deepest group of fowards and has one of the best goaltenders in the game in Jonathan Quick, which also goes a long way in winning a Stanley Cup.

 

[FLYguy3911]

I hear yah but LA has one 2 cups with a superstar on defense and depth down the middle. The centers are very good but not superstar level like Crosby and Malkin. The modern game is all about defense. You are absolutely taking a chance but out of a top prospect group of Hanifin, Sanheim, Morin, or Fleury/Nurse, I think the Flyers could put together an excellent top pair. There is no guarantee for defense prospects that why it is best to play the odds and acquire as many as you can get.

I absolutely agree you need a #1 but for every Doughty there is a Jack Johnson, Erik Johnson, Cam Baker, Ryan Murray. Meanwhile Shea Weber is the third defensemen drafted by his own team in 2003. You never know. I'm not willing take a chance on a defenseman if I have the chance to take a franchise player at 1 or 2.

You still need to be deep down the middle too. With Couturier and Laughton being question marks offensively, adding an Eichel or McDavid puts us in a good position moving forward, considering the D already in the pipeline.

 

[Psuhockey]

I get what you're saying. At the same time, Tampa did end up drafting Victor Hedman the following year, who himself is a number one defenseman in his own right. It's about balance. It also helps that in Doughty's case, Los Angeles has one of the deepest group of fowards and has one of the best goaltenders in the game in Jonathan Quick, which also goes a long way in winning a Stanley Cup.

LA built their forward ranks thru trade. Richards, Carter, Penner and last year Gaborik. It is much harder to acquire top defenseman in trade as the Flyers have tried for years. One of the reason the Flyers have failed is besides the ridiculous prices on defensemen, the Flyers never had a surplus of assets to spend like LA has had. Trading down is not only a chance for a potential franchise defenseman, but also to acquire a ton high value assets that can be moved for current players to put the team over the top. The Pronger trade crippled the Flyers because they didn't have a robust prospect system.

 

[Psuhockey]

I absolutely agree you need a #1 but for every Doughty there is a Jack Johnson, Erik Johnson, Cam Baker, Ryan Murray. Meanwhile Shea Weber is the third defensemen drafted by his own team in 2003. You never know. I'm not willing take a chance on a defenseman if I have the chance to take a franchise player at 1 or 2.

You still need to be deep down the middle too. With Couturier and Laughton being question marks offensively, adding an Eichel or McDavid puts us in a good position moving forward, considering the D already in the pipeline.

All the defense in the pipeline could bust out much like you have said and the Flyers would be scoring a lot of goals but still losing when it counts. Its a chance no doubt but if you hit, its a huge reward.

On a side note, Ryan Murray has been very good for Columbus when he hasn't been injured.

 

[sobrien]

I absolutely agree you need a #1 but for every Doughty there is a Jack Johnson, Erik Johnson, Cam Baker, Ryan Murray. Meanwhile Shea Weber is the third defensemen drafted by his own team in 2003. You never know. I'm not willing take a chance on a defenseman if I have the chance to take a franchise player at 1 or 2.

You still need to be deep down the middle too. With Couturier and Laughton being question marks offensively, adding an Eichel or McDavid puts us in a good position moving forward, considering the D already in the pipeline.

It's a tad early to throw Murray into that gaggle of "rejects," I feel like he may become a Suter-like player (very good at everything).

Eichel or McDavid (especially McDavid) and Giroux together could benefit each other's futures, with Giroux playing 1C for another season or two, then taking the 2C or 1W position when those kids are ready to move up to the top line.

 

[FLYguy3911]

All the defense in the pipeline could bust out much like you have said and the Flyers would be scoring a lot of goals but still losing when it counts. Its a chance no doubt but if you hit, its a huge reward.

On a side note, Ryan Murray has been very good for Columbus when he hasn't been injured.

And Hanifin could bust too and then you have nothing.

There's no certainties, but I'm taking the best odds in the potential franchise forwards who are clearly better at this stage. If they were equal? Sure go for the defenseman if that's your preference, but they are not equal.

I'm pretty confident in the pipeline we have built on the backend. They all show NHL skills and are diverse enough in those skills to minimize the risk a bit.

Murray's solid, but he's never going to be a franchise guy and I said that since his draft year. And he's always hurt like you mentioned. I'd take a few defensemen drafted after him pretty easily.

 

[Psuhockey]

I'm pretty confident in the pipeline we have built on the backend. They all show NHL skills and are diverse enough in those skills to minimize the risk a bit

I like the Flyers defense prospect pipeline but I am not as confident as you that there is a number #1 in there or even 3 top 4 guys in there. Sanheim is the only all around guy with as Meltzer calls it the "the four s" attributes: size, speed, skills, and sense. Morin could one day become a #1 defenseman but there are still questions about his puck skills, decision making, and offensive ability. Hagg has been called out by two different coaches in back to back years for his nonchalance and inability to raise his game on a consistent basis. Gostisbehere has lingering questions on his ability to defend and his board work at his size and just tore his acl. For a player who's game is built of speed and shiftiness, that should worry a bit.

That's just some nitpicking. I do think the Flyers should double down again on defense in this draft. Not only to guard against the very likely occurrence that some of these prospects won't make it, but because the area where they are picking has some all around guys will size, skating, and skill.

As far as anybody trading out of the top two: it will never happen even if Hanifin rated as the next Pronger. There is so much hype around McDavid and Eichel, a GM would be strung up by his fanbase.

 

[Striiker]

And rightfully so.

If we got a top 2 pick and Hextall traded it I'd be in jail within hours.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

And rightfully so.

If we got a top 2 pick and Hextall traded it I'd be in jail within hours.

For me, it would all depend what Hextall traded the pick for. If he got a Lindros-esque type of return and if he moved down three or four spots, I'd be perfectly content with that. So, say if the Flyers ended up with a top two pick and if they got a call from Tim Murray and he's offering Reinhart, Ristolainen and a couple of firsts this year, I'd hope Hextall would seriously consider (that would be the kind of overpayment I'd hope they'd look at considering).

 

[FLYguy3911]

For me, it would all depend what Hextall traded the pick for. If he got a Lindros-esque type of return and if he moved down three or four spots, I'd be perfectly content with that. So, say if the Flyers ended up with a top two pick and if they got a call from Tim Murray and he's offering Reinhart, Ristolainen and a couple of firsts this year, I'd hope Hextall would seriously consider (that would be the kind of overpayment I'd hope they'd look at considering).

I would hope he would hang up. Trading that pick for prospects and futures? That's crazy. Like I said if we made the move up to the top, we would be looking at giving up G or Voracek+.

 

[Striiker]

For me, it would all depend what Hextall traded the pick for. If he got a Lindros-esque type of return and if he moved down three or four spots, I'd be perfectly content with that. So, say if the Flyers ended up with a top two pick and if they got a call from Tim Murray and he's offering Reinhart, Ristolainen and a couple of firsts this year, I'd hope Hextall would seriously consider (that would be the kind of overpayment I'd hope they'd look at considering).

He sure as hell better not trade the pick for that type of return.

 

[OrangeAndBlackMetal]

For me, it would all depend what Hextall traded the pick for. If he got a Lindros-esque type of return and if he moved down three or four spots, I'd be perfectly content with that. So, say if the Flyers ended up with a top two pick and if they got a call from Tim Murray and he's offering Reinhart, Ristolainen and a couple of firsts this year, I'd hope Hextall would seriously consider (that would be the kind of overpayment I'd hope they'd look at considering).

probably wouldn't make that trade. very unimpressed by Reinhart and we already have a stacked group of D prospects. Risto would be awesome, but not enough for me to move a pick that would land a potential elite forward. If we somehow ended up with the #1 or #2 pick, i don't think there are any reasonable deals another team could put together that would entice me to move it. Only way I'm moving it is if were getting a legitimate, young bonafide #1 defenseman. Think someone like Pietrangelo... and that's not going to happen, so I'm keeping it.

 

[Striiker]

probably wouldn't make that trade. very unimpressed by Reinhart and we already have a stacked group of D prospects. Risto would be awesome, but not enough for me to move a pick that would land a potential elite forward. If we somehow ended up with the #1 or #2 pick, i don't think there are any reasonable deals another team could put together that would entice me to move it. Only way I'm moving it is if were getting a legitimate, young bonafide #1 defenseman. Think someone like Pietrangelo... and that's not going to happen, so I'm keeping it.

Wrong Reinhart, the D version is in NY, the F version is is Buffalo.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Wrong Reinhart, the D version is in NY, the F version is is Buffalo.

I think that's the one he was referring to. I don't even think I would do the deal for Pietrangelo.

 

[Striiker]

I think that's the one he was referring to. I don't even think I would do the deal for Pietrangelo.

Ohh, I see now, my mistake.

When he said he was unimpressed with Reinhart and that we already have enough D prospects I thought that he was still talking about the same player...

 

[Psuhockey]

For me, it would all depend what Hextall traded the pick for. If he got a Lindros-esque type of return and if he moved down three or four spots, I'd be perfectly content with that. So, say if the Flyers ended up with a top two pick and if they got a call from Tim Murray and he's offering Reinhart, Ristolainen and a couple of firsts this year, I'd hope Hextall would seriously consider (that would be the kind of overpayment I'd hope they'd look at considering).

I would want 1st next year from Buffalo but that's close to a pretty good deal.

Everybody loves these top two centers but neither is turning these terrible teams into a contender right away so the likelihood is another top 5 pick next year for the Flyers. This time next year people will be raving about the top guys in that draft and won't want to trade away them either. Some analysts have said Auston Matthews would be picked over Eichel this year.

In a few years time:
Giroux-Reinhart-Couturier-Laughton down the center

Ristolainen-Sanheim, Werenski-Morin, Ghost-Hagg

Plus a top 5 pick next year as well somewhere in the lineup, maybe one of the top left wingers in Jones, Kirwan, or benson or win the lottery for Matthews.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

I would want 1st next year from Buffalo but that's close to a pretty good deal.

Everybody loves these top two centers but neither is turning these terrible teams into a contender right away so the likelihood is another top 5 pick next year for the Flyers. This time next year people will be raving about the top guys in that draft and won't want to trade away them either. Some analysts have said Auston Matthews would be picked over Eichel this year.

In a few years time:
Giroux-Reinhart-Couturier-Laughton down the center

Ristolainen-Sanheim, Werenski-Morin, Ghost-Hagg

Plus a top 5 pick next year as well somewhere in the lineup, maybe one of the top left wingers in Jones, Kirwan, or benson or win the lottery for Matthews.

Eh, I don't know. If McDavid or Eichel is supposed to be a legit "Can't-Miss" guy, I don't think you bank on all these ifs instead. Reinhart and Risto will likely be NHLers, but Sanheim, Morin, and Hagg (and to a lesser extent Ghost) are still all very much question marks. We all hope they develop into NHLers, but that is FAR from a guarnatee. I think best case 2/4 become top 4 defenders, and the other two are either fringe guys or bottom pair guys. And that is best case. We can't expect they all develop or even that 2/4 will develop. If we get two or even three firsts this year from Buffalo, the players we select will be equally question marks about their future. They have a good shot at making the NHL, but not necessarily being an impact NHLer. If we have a top two pick, I don't think we budge unless it is something absolutely insane.

 

[PALE PWNR]

If you are talking about trading a top 2 pick in this years draft an established young player needs to be coming back. ie. Ekblad, Mackinnon, Jones. Alongside more prospects and a top 10 pick in the draft. Ex. I'd want Jones, Forsberg, 1st 2015 and Aberg from Nashville or Ekblad, Matheson, 2015 1st and Grimaldi from Florida. Which is why it wont happen.

 

[whitstifier]

If you are talking about trading a top 2 pick in this years draft an established young player needs to be coming back. ie. Ekblad, Mackinnon, Jones. Alongside more prospects and a top 10 pick in the draft. Ex. I'd want Jones, Forsberg, 1st 2015 and Aberg from Nashville or Ekblad, Matheson, 2015 1st and Grimaldi from Florida. Which is why it wont happen.

Tiny Tebow? His personality gives him negative value.

 

[OrangeAndBlackMetal]

Ohh, I see now, my mistake.

When he said he was unimpressed with Reinhart and that we already have enough D prospects I thought that he was still talking about the same player...

Yeah i was speaking to Sam Reinhart. Been very unimpressed with him. Honestly? i would have taken Dal Colle if i were Buffalo. Said it before the draft and i'll maintain my position; Dal Colle will be the best forward from this draft and 2nd best player behind Ekblad.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Top 10 picks have become so overpriced now a days let alone top 5 picks. It's become not even worth it anymore to discuss the possibility of it happening.

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

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