Salary Cap: 2014 - 2015 New York Rangers :: Roster Building / Proposal Thread Part XIII

[NYR Viper]

Will ‏@HeyMyNameIsWill 50m50 minutes ago
Bob McKenzie on TSN 690: "I do believe that Mike Green is going to be traded by the deadline."

Interesting

 

[NYR Viper]

Two things. I actually did not realize how old this team is, but they are actually the 3rd oldest team in the league. I realize that some of that is weighed down by MSL & Boyle.

I realize that they are going for it. But the question that needs to be asked before we continue to trade away chips and begin to trade away young players is that realistically, are the Rangers true contenders to win the Cup? In other words, are they on the same tier as the elite of the elite? Or Are they just contenders to make a lot of noise but not be able to compete with some of those teams?

I realize that for the period of about a year, they have one of the best records in the league, but for my money they are not on the tier that is "one player away". They were not when they made the MSL trade.

Yes, the Rangers IMO are one of the best teams in the league. They need a couple of pieces and Hanzal fills quite a few holes.

They have infused 2 1/2 young players into the line-up this season already. They have McIlrath, Skjei, Buch, Duclair, Hrivik, Lindberg who are close to or will be close by this time next year, NHL ready. There isn't space to accommodate every young player and continue to contend for The Cup.

Except it makes absolutely no sense to make that deal. We are tight against the cap already and will have to let one of MSL, Zucc or Hagelin go next year. Trading Miller for Hanzal only makes that situation worse, and losing John Moore would make us even thinner on defense. Hunwick has been decent, but we are then one injury away from having McIlrath, Allen or Kostka in the lineup.

If the trade off is Hanzal for MZA next year I'm totally fine with it. The Rangers organizational depth is at wing. Hayes (wing in college), Fast, Duclair, Hrivik, Buch are all wingers. Lindberg can play wing.

What they are lacking is:
Size
Face-off prowess
Strength
3C

Hazal kills all of those.

 

[Raspewtin]

Yes, the Rangers IMO are one of the best teams in the league. They need a couple of pieces and Hanzal fills quite a few holes.

They have infused 2 1/2 young players into the line-up this season already. They have McIlrath, Skjei, Buch, Duclair, Hrivik, Lindberg who are close to or will be close by this time next year, NHL ready. There isn't space to accommodate every young player and continue to contend for The Cup.




If the trade off is Hanzal for MZA next year I'm totally fine with it. The Rangers organizational depth is at wing. Hayes (wing in college), Fast, Duclair, Hrivik, Buch are all wingers. Lindberg can play wing.

What they are lacking is:
Size
Face-off prowess
Strength
3C

Hazal kills all of those.

They also lack another defenseman that's puck savy.

 

[KOVALEV022473]

Yes, the Rangers IMO are one of the best teams in the league. They need a couple of pieces and Hanzal fills quite a few holes.

They have infused 2 1/2 young players into the line-up this season already. They have McIlrath, Skjei, Buch, Duclair, Hrivik, Lindberg who are close to or will be close by this time next year, NHL ready. There isn't space to accommodate every young player and continue to contend for The Cup.




If the trade off is Hanzal for MZA next year I'm totally fine with it. The Rangers organizational depth is at wing. Hayes (wing in college), Fast, Duclair, Hrivik, Buch are all wingers. Lindberg can play wing.

What they are lacking is:
Size
Face-off prowess
Strength
3C

Hazal kills all of those.

Thanks for backing me up Viper! The thing people seem to forget, or even ignore, is that the objective in sports is to WIN, not be some perennial playoff team. Ask the Sharks how's that been working out for them. Trading for Hanzal, is not akin to trading Kreider, Zucc, Miller, Hags and a first for an expensive older Thorton! Hanzal is a cost controled, big, two way player whom, as stated above fills multiple holes AND ultimately makes us a better team!

 

[NYR Viper]

They also lack another defenseman that's puck savy.

I would agree, but if McDonagh can get back into form, he brings that. I would be okay with Methot as the 3rd pairing d-man if they can swing that. Methot-Boyle

 

[Raspewtin]

I would agree, but if McDonagh can get back into form, he brings that. I would be okay with Methot as the 3rd pairing d-man if they can swing that. Methot-Boyle

Methot would be a great add and has a very underrated 1st pass, but I agree the best way to get the d-core back on track would be for McDonagh to pull his head out of his ass.

It's actually pretty remarkable that we're 17-5 over the last 22 with so many kley players players doing ****-all.

 

[bobbop]

Bobop "bobbop
Hanzal is available. That is different from past years. I see Hanzal play every night and no question I'd include JT any others in a deal for him. Very valuable and affordable long term piece. He would give the Rangers a 3 deep at center they could keep together for years.
[!!]"

Has there been reports that Phoenix is shopping Hanzal?

He is not being shopped per se but Coyotes are listening and he is available.

 

[Mikos87]

This isn't a situation where the Rangers have only 1 good young player. Miller. Fast. Hayes. Lindberg. All are in the NHL or very close to being in the NHL. How many young players can a Cup Contender hope to ride all season?

They have Buch and Duclair on the way on the wing who look to be closeish.

If Hanzal is indeed available, he kills multiple birds with a single stone. Face offs. Size. Center depth. Defensive awareness. And he is signed past this season. Extend the window.

Many people have mentioned it. This team is getting older. It's obvious they believe they are close. The MSL deal last year is just one example. It's time to make a couple of deals to really to for it. Get Hanzal. Get Sekera. Time to put the chips on the table.

I think they really do, but as far as the chips go, the Rangers don't exactly have a lot of trade chips.

If the team is going to trade Miller, a guy like Hanzal is a good buy because he won't be a rental. Problem with the Rangers is that they don't have the cap space beyond this season to have a Hanzal without letting Zucc walk.

Now that is a move I can live with since Duke and Buch are waiting in the wings. Literally.

Question is the cost... and is it something that the Rangers will pay... The Rangers need young cheap contracts that can contribute.

One thing to keep in mind is that Hanzal isn't exactly fleet of foot, he's an outstanding shutdown center, but he's only had success under Tippet's Tortorella-esque system.

PHX is a team that wants and needs guys on back diving contracts... ie Salary less than the cap it. I think the move that takes place after July 1st between these teams is Tanner Glass for Joe Vitale.

Before then, I could see a depth defenseman picked up for a 5th or 6th like Shlemko.

If the price on Hanzal is an NHL player (JMoore) 2nd + a Goalie Prospect... I don't hesitate.

 

[Mikos87]

I would agree, but if McDonagh can get back into form, he brings that. I would be okay with Methot as the 3rd pairing d-man if they can swing that. Methot-Boyle

This I agree with. As good as Sekera is, that is a player that is going to get an NHL ready defenseman and a 1st. The Rangers don't have that.

Methot also brings a crease clearing and penalty killing ability that allows Staal and McD to play more aggressively since there is a LD that can eat those minutes. Methot has history with Nash, Brass, and Arniel from CLB and he's a guy that will step up for the team. He's a character guy that plays a Brooks Orpik type of game.

Methot also allows a guy like Dan Boyle to spring the offense. Karsslon plays his best hockey when paired with Methot.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I like Methot a ton but there will be a bidding war for his services. A team like the Kings would give him top 4 minutes. I think at the end of the day he is a luxury the Rangers can't afford. Might have to dig deeper down the list of available players to find a fit for 6D.

 

[NYR Viper]

Methot would be a great add and has a very underrated 1st pass, but I agree the best way to get the d-core back on track would be for McDonagh to pull his head out of his ass.

It's actually pretty remarkable that we're 17-5 over the last 22 with so many kley players players doing ****-all.

I agree.

He is not being shopped per se but Coyotes are listening and he is available.

Bob, am I off in my assessment of Hanzal in that he would be a HUGE upgrade to our center group?

 

[True Blue]

Yes, the Rangers IMO are one of the best teams in the league. They need a couple of pieces and Hanzal fills quite a few holes.

That is one of the issues I guess that I have. You see them with the elite of the elite. I see them as one of the better teams on the next rung down.

They have infused 2 1/2 young players into the line-up this season already. They have McIlrath, Skjei, Buch, Duclair, Hrivik, Lindberg who are close to or will be close by this time next year, NHL ready. There isn't space to accommodate every young player and continue to contend for The Cup.

They have infused some players. But there is a difference between someone line Fast and someone that has potential to be a top 6 forward. Also, you have no idea if aside from Duclair, any of those can play in the league. Not being able to accommodate every young player is one thing. It is another to insert a name and presume that he will be ready to go. Even with Duclair, while you saw some flashes and you also saw some flashes of not so much

 

[Son of Steinbrenner]

Two things. I actually did not realize how old this team is, but they are actually the 3rd oldest team in the league. I realize that some of that is weighed down by MSL & Boyle.

I realize that they are going for it. But the question that needs to be asked before we continue to trade away chips and begin to trade away young players is that realistically, are the Rangers true contenders to win the Cup? In other words, are they on the same tier as the elite of the elite? Or Are they just contenders to make a lot of noise but not be able to compete with some of those teams?

I realize that for the period of about a year, they have one of the best records in the league, but for my money they are not on the tier that is "one player away". They were not when they made the MSL trade.

Years ago you used to question if the Rangers were involved in a "true" rebuild. This was after the purge in 04 and while the team was adding young talent every year.

Now you are questioning if the team is a true contender? This is incredible. They are the defending Eastern Conference Champions. They have been playing nearly lights out hockey for two months. Literally two months. Yet, you want to worry about trading away assets to improve the team? I gotta ask. Are you being sarcastic when you ask these questions?

 

[free0717]

How about "Just Stand Pat"

I hear and see all these trade rumors. It makes me sick to see us trading picks or real good prospects like a JT Miller for a rental.

I think the team is good right now and unless a top center or Dman drops into our lap, we are going to be at the same place.

I know we suck @ faceoffs but maybe we should try to bring in a "Faceoff" coach to work with the centers we have. I am not real interested in the rental market.

I say "STAND PAT". I am ready to go to war with the group we have. What do you think???

 

[Made Dan]

Visiting teams normally bus it through the ramp on 33rd between 7th and 8th. If the players walk, it's typically through that same ramp.

 

[Raspewtin]

Elliotte Friedman says that the Rangers would like to get involved with Hanzal but not having a first round pick will make it tough. (Nichols on Hockey)

So this wasn't just news speculation.

 

[Raspewtin]

That is one of the issues I guess that I have. You see them with the elite of the elite. I see them as one of the better teams on the next rung down.

Why don't you see this team as one of the best?

 

[Mac n Gs]

So this wasn't just news speculation.

I guess it just depends on what would be considered fair value for Hanzal since we'd have to compensate for not offering a first round pick

 

[silverfish]

Bob, am I off in my assessment of Hanzal in that he would be a HUGE upgrade to our center group?

You're right on the money.

Hanzal is a legit 2C that would play 3C here. It means bumping Hayes to the wing for long-term, which I don't love... BUT... we'd be lucky if Hayes turns into a Hanzal type player, so it's a good trade-off there.

Kreider - Hanzal - Hayes

I don't know if there's a line in the east that can match that combination of speed, size, and skill.

 

[Made Dan]

Definitely think we need more depth for a run. Not comfortable with the d going forward in case of injury. Potentially having Moore and Hunwick in the lineup wouldn't be congruent with a deep run. Same thing with center depth. If Hayes/Moore, or god forbid Brass/Step go down, we're going to be reliant upon an AHL player to come up and play playoff minutes. Shifting JT back to C shouldn't be considered, clearly doesn't work. Not suggesting we blow any of our top prospects for a rental, really don't see anyone being available who I'd give up JT for, but a reasonable acquisition should be made (IE Santorelli). Hanzal, who's locked up another two years, could tempt me to give up JT.

 

[True Blue]

Why don't you see this team as one of the best?

Without rehasing past debates or reasoning, the short answer is "no" I do not see them as one of the best. I thought that they were extremely lucky to draw Montreal and not the Bruins last year. Let alone a Habs team without Carey Price.

But that was last year. To me, the Rangers are extremely one sided. When their first pass works AND they can generate offense through the neutral zone off of the rush, they can look good. However, when either a) that first pas is taken away and/or b) they do not generate offense off of the initial rush, they look poor. When that occurs, they generate next to nothing.

They do not win battles along the boards. They do not win battles in the corner. They are not built for that. They are a true finesse team. But 100% finesse teams do not win. They can look like world beaters against the poor and mediocre. And every now and then against a true contender. But against teams that take away what they do best, they have no answer for. Even when they beat a team like that (Columbus) they are clearly the second best team on the ice.

Their play against Boston, Tampa, Columbus & the Isles has been a large enough samples of games against Eastern teams that will attack them with a heavy forecheck and take away what they do best. Unfortunately, there does not seem to be a plan B if plan A is not working. Until they can beat a bigger team that takes away their time and space, it is debatable how much success they will have.

It is one thing for Nash to dominate Carolina or Buffalo. In the playoffs, he is going against Chara every shirt.

 

[Raspewtin]

You're right on the money.

Hanzal is a legit 2C that would play 3C here. It means bumping Hayes to the wing for long-term, which I don't love... BUT... we'd be lucky if Hayes turns into a Hanzal type player, so it's a good trade-off there.

Kreider - Hanzal - Hayes

I don't know if there's a line in the east that can match that combination of speed, size, and skill.

Exactly. If we get Hanzal for the long term I don't care if Hayes plays center, because Hayes' potential is a worse defensively Hanzal.

He'd give this team another dimension for sure.

 

[FLYLine27*]

We need someone who can win a faceoff. Sign Blair Betts for pennies for that role.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I'm sorry, but this is a terrible idea.

The Rangers are in a cluster of teams that can legitimately come out of the East. Most if not all of their competitors will improve at the deadline in an attempt to position themselves better to win.

If you stand pat, you're basically wasting another year in what really is a 3 year window IMO. They made the mistake of basically standing pat in 2012 and it came back to bite them, they won't do it again unless deadline prices are insane, but even then that would only really limit them from going after the marquee names.

You can shop smart and still become a better team.

 

[Raspewtin]

Too many contenders in the East.

I'm not in the "gut the prospect pool for super upgrades" camp, but improvements can and should be made.