2014-15 Training Camp Discussion

[vokiel]

When it's time for a guy to go....it's time. Have no idea why Moen is still part of this team unless nobody wants him even for a 5th or 6th rounder.

Do you think he would be claimed if waived at the beginning of the season? I have my doubts.

 

[WeThreeKings]

14 goals in 37 games ... pace of 31 goals over 82 games.

Whatever, its still irrelevant. DD is the only center with whom Pacioretty has had success

Agreed. Its important to ignore things that don't fit our narrative.

 

[Andy]

The only thing that concerns me is the lack of a strong two-way winger that can play in the top 6 and contribute offensive, especially with Plekanec. I don't see one in the lineup right now. Pacioretty could be that guy, but the team seems comfortable employing him primarily in offensive only roles. I don't see PAP, Gallagher, Galchenyuk, Bourque or Sekac providing what Gionta did in terms of scoring and playing D.

Sekac seems defensively responsible, but his willingness to back check doesn't say much about his defensive awareness. We'll have to wait for some real games to determine that, especially when the Habs are playing with a lead. Hell, we still don't know if he'll make the team, he looked good today, but we'll see what happens during pre-season where the game will get a little more up tempo, a tiny bit more structured (especially near the final games) and where guys are gonna throw the body a little more.

That being said, I still don't see any winger that Plekanec, or even Eller, can form a strong shutdown duo with. Even though the 4th line looks like it's going to be able to burden defensive zone starts this season and drive the pace the other way, I still want to see a two-way line in the top 9 that can contribute on both ends. The team lost that with Gionta. I really wonder who will replace that aspect of the game. Unless the team's wild card here is Bournival, who I really think is flying under the radar of a lot of people on this board.

Based on their usage, the open spot in the Habs middle 6 appears to be a battle between Sekac, DLR and Andrighetto. I think Bournival has already made the team and will rotate throughout the year with Weise and Prust, especially if Prust is as bad as he was last season. Who knows, maybe Bournival pushes himself into the middle 6 position. He certainly showed that he has some offensive game, his time in the Q and his first season with the Dogs showed that contrary to popular belief he isn't offensively challenged.

 

[Whitesnake]

Agreed. Its important to ignore things that don't fit our narrative.

So in the end......Pacioretty loves centermen who don't shoot.....That's where he fits more confortable with is when he knows that he puts himself in the position...and he'll get the puck. Gomez was a pure passer. So is DD. Pleks is more hybrid, defensively oriented. Eller is still growing in that position. Galchy, when ready, will probably be perfect even if he is not going to be a pure passer, but should be an all-around great offensively oriented C.

So Pacioretty being succesful with Gomez is actually a proof that this is why he fits more with DD than anybody else.

 

[Mario le Magnifique]

The best out of this (and many other) threads :

DD has a good scrimmage = People talk about him
DD has a bad scrimmage = People talk about him
DD wasn't part of the scrimmage = People talk about him

If there was no DD HF Habs would have 75% less traffic, or there would be another scapegoat to write / read about.

in the end it's all worth a big bowl of /popcorn

As for the scrimmages themselves, people are diminishing their importances, but let's just remind ourselves that Bournival earned himself a spot last year, when he scored in almost every scrimmages and even some preseason games. The youngsters are there to prove the organisation that they're better than their competitors. For vets it means nothing else than building chemistry and getting the timing back. But for youngsters this is important.

 

[Andy]

So in the end......Pacioretty loves centermen who don't shoot.....That's where he fits more confortable with is when he knows that he puts himself in the position...and he'll get the puck. Gomez was a pure passer. So is DD. Pleks is more hybrid, defensively oriented. Eller is still growing in that position. Galchy, when ready, will probably be perfect even if he is not going to be a pure passer, but should be an all-around great offensively oriented C.

So Pacioretty being succesful with Gomez is actually a proof that this is why he fits more with DD than anybody else.

Speaking of Eller, I'm glad that his play with the puck has continued from last season's playoffs. It wasn't noted, but what changed the most in Eller's game in the playoffs is that he wasn't holding the puck for too long. He started passing the puck to his wingers in the neutral zone, chipping short passes to a streaking winger when gaining the blue line, dropping the puck to a pinching D-man. He was doing much of the same today. With Eller's ability to skate through the neutral zone, I think it's really important that refines this part of the game. His assertiveness with the puck down the centre of the ice backs off defenders, giving a little space to his wingers. I hope he continues using his wingers like he did today and in the POs last season.

 

[Shutdown]

God damn some of you guys have your heads squarely up your *****. Like you've never seen a training camp scrimmage.

The guys with speed stand out because they have green lights to do whatever they hell they want without barely getting touched.

The big guys can't play their game.

The pace is all over the place so the goalies look foolish at times, as it's hard to get set if the speed of the game changes constantly from shift to shift.

And it all amounts to absolutely nothing of value, because it's a meaningless scrimmage to get their legs going again.

 

[GREMLIN]

14 goals in 37 games ... pace of 31 goals over 82 games.

Whatever, its still irrelevant. DD is the only center with whom Pacioretty has had success

False. Patches had success with Gomez and Gionta.

I meant of the guys that are still here. DD's still the only guy Patches wants to play with wether you like it or not.

Im pretty sure when you're a top 5 scorer in the league you get to decide who you wanna play with, or I might be wrong and its actually the HF fanbase who decides right?

 

[Whitesnake]

God damn some of you guys have your heads squarely up your *****. Like you've never seen a training camp scrimmage.

The guys with speed stand out because they have green lights to do whatever they hell they want without barely getting touched.

The big guys can't play their game.

The pace is all over the place so the goalies look foolish at times, as it's hard to get set if the speed of the game changes constantly from shift to shift.

And it all amounts to absolutely nothing of value, because it's a meaningless scrimmage to get their legs going again.

And yet somehow, Prust, Weise and Malhotra look great while Moen look like...Moen. Yep.....that's why nobody will care if Gallagher is invisible as he's going to shine when hits starts happening. But some other guys still need to show their stuff as their counterparts DO show it.

 

[Andy]

The best out of this (and many other) threads :

DD has a good scrimmage = People talk about him
DD has a bad scrimmage = People talk about him
DD wasn't part of the scrimmage = People talk about him

If there was no DD HF Habs would have 75% less traffic, or there would be another scapegoat to write / read about.

in the end it's all worth a big bowl of /popcorn

As for the scrimmages themselves, people are diminishing their importances, but let's just remind ourselves that Bournival earned himself a spot last year, when he scored in almost every scrimmages and even some preseason games. The youngsters are there to prove the organisation that they're better than their competitors. For vets it means nothing else than building chemistry and getting the timing back. But for youngsters this is important.

They are important, but they are not the be-all-end-all in terms of evaluation. Some rookies will look better in them because the game isn't as physical, vets are coasting etc. I think a lot of the bangers look bad in these scrimmages because they are toning down the part of the game that makes them successful. I thought 98% of the D looked bad today, none were really playing the body, not looking to hit anyone, even their board work lacked that extra effort you see in the nhl games. It was really hard to judge the D in this kind of game that really lacked structure, especially on the break out and D2D passing, which is normal at this point.

I find it interesting, yet not surprising, that all the skill guys were noticeable, while the bangers (Prust, Bournival, Malholtra and Weise aside) were almost universally panned/critiqued.

 

[WeThreeKings]

So in the end......Pacioretty loves centermen who don't shoot.....That's where he fits more confortable with is when he knows that he puts himself in the position...and he'll get the puck. Gomez was a pure passer. So is DD. Pleks is more hybrid, defensively oriented. Eller is still growing in that position. Galchy, when ready, will probably be perfect even if he is not going to be a pure passer, but should be an all-around great offensively oriented C.

So Pacioretty being succesful with Gomez is actually a proof that this is why he fits more with DD than anybody else.

In the end hes produced with the only two centers hes spent any time with..

 

[Andy]

I felt bad for Drewiske and Finley, they were matched up a few times against DD-Pacioretty and PAP who made them look flat out silly. I also found it interesting that they lines up that line against Plekanec-Sekac-Andrighetto, almost like they were prepping them of what may come if you play with Plekanec, i.e., that you will have to stop the offense.

 

[CH25]

How did Bouillon look ?

 

[Andy]

How did Bouillon look ?

I honestly didn't notice him...but I didn't notice much of the D. I thought they all looked flat and were coasting like they were trying to not get hurt. He wasn't part of the handful that struggled: Nygren, Finley, Drewiske. But that really isn't saying much. It was really hard to judge the D in this type of game. We'll have to wait until Tuesday.

 

[Whitesnake]

I find it interesting, yet not surprising, that all the skill guys were noticeable, while the bangers (Prust, Bournival, Malholtra and Weise aside) were almost universally panned/critiqued.

But you can't put those 4 guys aside as they are OUR bangers. First 3 lines are skilled. Only the 4th will be banging and somehow, you named exactly forward #10 to #14 which leaves Moen #15, which for me that at one point, your #15 should be in Hamilton. Hoping Sorkin could get out of his shell and could fit that role if we need a bigger body. Connor Crisp later on....Bowman or Andrighetto or Thomas for skills. DLR for 2-way. I mean...I just don't see Moen's utiliy for us.

 

[NotProkofievian]

So in the end......Pacioretty loves centermen who don't shoot.....That's where he fits more confortable with is when he knows that he puts himself in the position...and he'll get the puck. Gomez was a pure passer. So is DD. Pleks is more hybrid, defensively oriented. Eller is still growing in that position. Galchy, when ready, will probably be perfect even if he is not going to be a pure passer, but should be an all-around great offensively oriented C.

So Pacioretty being succesful with Gomez is actually a proof that this is why he fits more with DD than anybody else.

Wouldn't playing with a center that has a decent shot open up more space for Pacioretty as a shooter, though?

 

[Habruti!]

LMFAO

Do i have to remind people that last year, not in the scrimmage (where hitting isn't part of the game really) but in the pre-season game that the line of Pactches-DD-Brere had already some chemistry and they were already dominating the play. Briere felt comfortable there, they were our best line in the pre-season.

How did they do in the real season again?


This is FREAKING scrimmage, it's not a game, it's barely a practice.
You shouldn't even be allowed to watch them, it's the first year we saw scrimmage and already some of you think it's good to evaluate NHLer who just getting in shape, not wanting to get hurt and try the things they practiced this summer.

Perhaps you should go back and read your notes from last year because even in the intra-squad games there was very little chimistry between the 3 of them. A lot of it was blamed on the fact Briere was adapting to the RW which he had never played before...

 

[Whitesnake]

In the end hes produced with the only two centers hes spent any time with..

Either that or....he looks great scoring with top-end passers? And then you add Vanek's comments, a pure sniper, who talked about lack of chemistry with Pleks (and surely lamenting about tougher matchups...) compared to DD....

I mean, are people still going to complain about DD getting the better teamates if that Pacioretty and Parenteau combination sticks? Is Parenteau going to suddenly become a top player in the NHL? 'Cause if in the end Pleks ends up with Gallagher and Galchenyuk, he will be getting the #2 and #3 winger of the team while DD will have the #1 and not even sure if Parenteau automatically fit as #4.....you might even have to give Bourque that position based on his playoffs. Parenteau was traded for Brière....the guy we think was done and is really about to be done. Parenteau has the potential to be more than that....but he still could be a bottom 2-line winger. Remains to be seen how that combination on top will do to him.

 

[Andy]

But you can't put those 4 guys aside as they are OUR bangers. First 3 lines are skilled. Only the 4th will be banging and somehow, you named exactly forward #10 to #14 which leaves Moen #15, which for me that at one point, your #15 should be in Hamilton. Hoping Sorkin could get out of his shell and could fit that role if we need a bigger body. Connor Crisp later on....Bowman or Andrighetto or Thomas for skills. DLR for 2-way. I mean...I just don't see Moen's utiliy for us.

Like I said earlier, Moen's experience is keeping him afloat and even though he's declined considerable, he's still reliable enough in his own end when the team needs him. I still don't get why he was placed along side Galchenyuk and Gallagher, he had zero to offer there and it's like it's the regular season with points on the line...this only made him look worse. Honestly, I think had he played with Malholtra and Prust/Weise, he would have looked a little better as he would have been in his element.

With the amount of depth the Habs have though, you're right, his utility to the club is unknown. That being said, if a plethora of injuries ever happen, we'd be happy to see Moen step right in. However, the team can only carry so many players. The Moen situation is a tough one imo, not as black and white as we are making it seem. I think he still has some miles left in him and come PO time, you want that type of depth.

 

[MSLs absurd thighs]

Bournival was above a PPG in 3 of his 4 seasons in the Q. He also finished second in points as a forward (1 away from first) in his first pro-season with the dogs.

Also, he doesn't have to be a big time offensive player to have a key role on the club. He already looked excellent in first year in the nhl and had a pretty seasoned game for a 22 year old, especially in the POs.



I wouldn't count on your opinion. He already looked excellent alongside Plekanec and Gionta last year in a top 6 two-way role and was only removed from the line to get Briere going. I wouldn't be surprised that he finds a role on a 3rd line in the next 1-2 years.

Bournival was creating scoring chances today, showed better offensive vision that a lot of his younger peers. For someone with no shot, he sniped a nice one passed Price on a penalty shot. He blew by a few veteren D-men today and created some really good chances. Not to mention his solid two-way game. He carried his line in this scrimmage while playing against a very very solid line of nhl vets.

Ok. First of all, he was all but suited for his role in the playoffs. He skates a lot and can create turnovers, but with the puck on his stick, he's probably even less dangerous than most of our 4th liners offensively. Vanek would likely have been bashed much less if Bournival could finish once every 4 times Vanek set him up.

As for the reason he was removed from the top-6... The reason is that we were sucking big time offensively, and that he wasn't creating much at all offensively. Yes, he DID create some offensive chances, through turnovers and forechecking. But he's not going to read the play well if he plays with offensive players, he's not going to be a threat in the neutral zone, and he won't be able to finish much if he plays with good offensive players.

As for his goal against Price... come on. Price was definitely not on today, Andrighetto beat him by losing control of the puck.

You're realling pushing it really far when you say he was excellent in a top-6 role. Top-6 players must produce offensively. The role of a top-6 player is to create offense, make his linemates better, and produce offense. Bournival is not a top-6 player, and never excelled in that role. In fact, with JDLR, Andrighetto and Sekac now this season, he should never get a sniff of top-6 usage.

 

[Whitesnake]

Wouldn't playing with a center that has a decent shot open up more space for Pacioretty as a shooter, though?

Tough to complain about that unless we already think of Pacioretty that he's a easy 50-goal scorer that is at 40 because DD sucks so much. And as of now, sorry but you can't go there.

I don't think it would change a lot as, as an opponent, you drive DD whether it's to erase a shooting option or erase a passing option. Opponents should always charge DD to make him speed up his play....Pacioretty becomes dangerous when opponents gives too much time to DD to find him. So you charge DD whether if he shoots or he passes....The only thing, and it's a big thing, that DD does by not shooting is that he opens himself up to criticisms because as an offensive line...they are not scoring enough.

 

[Andy]

Either that or....he looks great scoring with top-end passers? And then you add Vanek's comments, a pure sniper, who talked about lack of chemistry with Pleks (and surely lamenting about tougher matchups...) compared to DD....

Vanek also said after the playoffs was done that he wish he spent more time with Eller and they were developing some chemistry...and Eller isn't really known for his passing game .

 

[MSLs absurd thighs]

Either that or....he looks great scoring with top-end passers? And then you add Vanek's comments, a pure sniper, who talked about lack of chemistry with Pleks (and surely lamenting about tougher matchups...) compared to DD....

I mean, are people still going to complain about DD getting the better teamates if that Pacioretty and Parenteau combination sticks? Is Parenteau going to suddenly become a top player in the NHL? 'Cause if in the end Pleks ends up with Gallagher and Galchenyuk, he will be getting the #2 and #3 winger of the team while DD will have the #1 and not even sure if Parenteau automatically fit as #4.....you might even have to give Bourque that position based on his playoffs. Parenteau was traded for Brière....the guy we think was done and is really about to be done. Parenteau has the potential to be more than that....but he still could be a bottom 2-line winger. Remains to be seen how that combination on top will do to him.

Jeez man, I love your posts, but you're definitely exagerating on Parenteau. The guy has an average of 62 points every 82 games in his last 3 seasons. He's definitely better offensively than both Galchenyuk and Gallagher at this point, at the time we're speaking. And he's definitely better than Bourque also, playoffs or not.

 

[The Stig]

Over 1000. Continue in new thread:
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=89796569#post89796569